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So are light side sith still sith?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
So are light side sith still sith?

grandmthethird's Avatar


grandmthethird
05.03.2012 , 09:40 AM | #11
ok lets look at this from another angle. can any1 name a lightside sith, that remained part of the empire and didn't turn into a jedi,

i'm thinking opening an puppy orphanage would be a good example (ok maybe that is extreme) but seriously is there examples of light side sith?
"Hope has a vicious enemy called fate"

ChrisRedmond's Avatar


ChrisRedmond
05.03.2012 , 10:32 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by grandmthethird View Post
ok lets look at this from another angle. can any1 name a lightside sith, that remained part of the empire and didn't turn into a jedi,

i'm thinking opening an puppy orphanage would be a good example (ok maybe that is extreme) but seriously is there examples of light side sith?
Revan. It was always his plan to do the 'right' thing to save the Republic. Becoming Sith was merely necessity.
If you can't fix it, forget it.

Aximand's Avatar


Aximand
05.03.2012 , 10:37 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by ChrisRedmond View Post
Revan. It was always his plan to do the 'right' thing to save the Republic. Becoming Sith was merely necessity.
Wrong. Revan fell to the Dark Side during the Mandalorian Wars, with him finally becoming irredeemable (without the Council wiping his mind) during the events of Malachor V. He was already dark sided when Vitiate mind controlled him and after he broke free from Vitiate's hold during the Jedi Civil War, he planned on making the Republic into his own Sith Empire so he could return and conquer Vitiate's Sith Empire. At no point was he ever a Light sided Sith.
I'm not mean, you're just a sissy.
The Orange Pixel is the REAL Sith Emperor
I don't need luck, I've got ammo - Urdnot Grunt
Remember 4/22/2011. A day that shall live in infamy.

EnsignSorrow's Avatar


EnsignSorrow
05.03.2012 , 04:02 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Aximand View Post
So, to answer your question, you do not have to be Dark sided to follow the Code of the Sith, but you do to live by the philosophy of the strong dominating the weak.
Which is not natural of the force, and therefore is a philosophy of the dark side.

Let's get real here: the Sith Emperor is almost a pure manifestation of the dark side of the force. Same guy who seeks to destroy the whole galaxy. Just so he can be the most powerful. He is beyond a Sith Lord, he is the Emperor.

He is the model of the Sith.

While it's also perfectly legit to play as a light side Sith character, because of it's story, and how it is written. It is lore. They are more of a gross. Just like how there are dark force users that are from the Jedi Order.
"To be Jedi is to face the truth, and choose. Give off light, or darkness, Padawan. Be a candle, or the night, Padawan: but choose!"

lokdron's Avatar


lokdron
05.03.2012 , 09:52 PM | #15
This is a post from another topic adding on to why LS sith are not sith.

Warning my post will contain some spoilers from SWTOR

I apologize for the grammar and spelling errors.

"How am I to know the good side from the bad?"
"You will know, when you are calm. At peace, passive."
―Luke Skywalker and Yoda

Thats from the movies and the first line of the sith code says "Peace is a lie". To use the light side you must be at peace and in control the sith teachings as whole is pretty much against that. Darth revan in the darth bane novel even says to bane that you must allow yourself to be consumed by the dark side and doing that makes you lose control of yourself sometimes.

I played an LS sith for myself since people keep telling me that they are still sith in my opinion no they are not same goes for dark jedi.

The sith was founded on the dark side of the force the sith are pretty much anti light side as well if they find out a sith is light side the sith consider them tainted since their religion was founded on the dark side. The LS sith would be hunted down and destroyed.

Even in this game the sith warrior if light side meets the dark side version of themself the LS sith warrior can say they followed the teachings of the sith and their master to the letter. The dark side incarnation gets pissed off and says to you "Stop lying to yourself you are not sith".

Last thing I ask you what do you think will happen if you walk into the academy and told everyone they should be light side what do you think would happen?

My thoughts will be in brackets.
Now stuff from the sith wiki page!

"If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself … and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards… If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles."
―Darth Traya[s

The Sith believed that conflict was the only true test of one's ability, and so emphasized its importance. It was their belief that conflict challenged both individuals and civilizations, and so forced them to grow and evolve. They believed that the avoidance of conflict–like the pacifist teachings of the Jedi–resulted in stagnation and decline.

Another purpose served by conflict was the elevation of the strong and the death of the weak. By encouraging strife, the strong were able to exercise their power while the weak were weeded from the ranks of the Sith. A core tenet to Sith philosophy was self-reliance and the idea that an individual only deserved what they were strong enough to take. Likewise, morality was treated as an obstacle to be overcome, as it got in the way of a Sith's ability to recognize and seize opportunities for advancement and self-empowerment. (in the sith code morality is also a chain so is honor since that can be exploited this is also explained the darth bane novels)


The cornerstone of a Sith's power was emotion. While the Jedi taught that fear, anger, and pain were negative emotions to be overcome, the Sith believed that these strong emotions were natural, and aided individuals in their survival. (When playing an LS sith they pretty much shy-ed away from fear,anger and pain the sith teachings state that these are the emotions that lead to power in the dark side and as I said before to sith the light side is heretical. The dark council in swtor gives the sith warrior apprentice a job as the sith heretic hunter. Positive emotions are things aligned with the light side and to the sith the light side is well tainted to them.)

However, not all emotions were embraced by the Sith. They, like the Jedi, considered 'love' a dangerous emotion, but for different reasons. The Jedi discouraged love because it led to attachment, but the Sith taught that love led to mercy, which was anathema to them. (Yes sith teach that you don't show mercy to opponents/rivals and I mean never if you want to go really old school)

"But in their hearts they never forgot the Jedi. The hatred for the Jedi Order burns in their veins like fire, and it echoes in their teachings."
―Darth Traya[src]


Wookiepedia stuff stops here.

The sith hate everything to do with the jedi and they hate everything the jedi represent the sith warrior can even refer to the jedi as vermin. The sith is the other side of the coin to the jedi thats how lucas created them the sith in themself is about imbalance.

Sith order teaches negative emotions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positive(since positive emotions are things of the light side). Since as I said before the sith order is founded on the dark side and gaining freedom through the dark side. Positive emotions is part of the light side and anyone in the sith order practicing the light side is deemded a heretic and needs to be destroyed. Darth malgus in his novel calls the light side heretical. The dark side incarnation the sith warrior meets says the sith can smell the rot off you aka light side.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Light_side_of_the_Force

The light side of the Force was aligned with happiness, joy, love, and benevolence, which some believed nurtured the light side and provided insight into its ethical uses. It was generally concerned with the ideas of good, generosity, healing, and wisdom, as opposed to evil, harm, and hasty judgment. In order to achieve harmony with the light side of the Force, its practitioners would often meditate to clear themselves of emotion; particularly negative emotions such as aggression, anger, and hatred

As I said before to the sith doing anything according to the light side is heretical to sith. There is a difference between being dark 1-5 and light 1-5 if you are light rank 1-5 then in the sith eyes you are now a heretic. Not to say playing an LS aligned sith is not interesting it is since you order wants to destroy you if they find out your true alignment. Since you are a heretic.

Lets not forget positive emotions don't work with the dark side only light and as I said before positive emotions are things of the light side. Plus if you embrace the idea of the strong dominating the weak those are things of the dark side since you are subjugating people weaker than you which in turn will cause suffering which will feed the dark side.
You have seen it, you have felt it within you as you have traveled with me. The growing anger, the rage, and the power it brings. Yet the power does not build without struggle. Through small cruelties greater ones are born. Kriea/Darth Traya
Dark side eye topic make your voice heard if you want canon movie sith eyes!

-squiddy-'s Avatar


-squiddy-
05.03.2012 , 11:54 PM | #16
I wonder how they feel about my Dark Side Sith Jedi Guardian then

Naphariel's Avatar


Naphariel
05.04.2012 , 02:01 AM | #17
I think you guys are getting a little too philosophical.
The Sith and Jedi orders are nothing more than organizations made up of certain individuals.
As long as other members of the organization recognize you to be one of them, you are a Sith/Jedi. Alignment has nothing to do with it.
Of course, if the other Sith actually KNEW you are secretly following the light side, then they'd probably kill/banish you, but as long as you manage to prevent that, you are a Sith.
Tomb of Freedon Nadd | Naphariel - Assassin | Syuveil - Guardian | Keilam - Juggernaut

lordsithington's Avatar


lordsithington
07.21.2012 , 10:24 AM | #18
personaly i think the light side/ dark side is just bioware being star warsy with the allignment system. Think of them more as different actions in a given situation (eg letting the slaves suffer for weeks versus killing them out right) both still pretty evil and none are particularly light. Making dark side choices as a jedi doesnt mean following the dark side it's just you feel you should take more aggressive action or be stronger to protect the republic. same as light sith. Malgus is sith but he believes that tolerence breeds strength. sparing some one who could help you get stronger vs killing them to be "sith". You're still a sith you just do things differently. Ultimately you strive for power regardless of your choices.

MaceTowani's Avatar


MaceTowani
07.21.2012 , 10:44 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Naphariel View Post
I think you guys are getting a little too philosophical.
The Sith and Jedi orders are nothing more than organizations made up of certain individuals.
As long as other members of the organization recognize you to be one of them, you are a Sith/Jedi. Alignment has nothing to do with it.
Of course, if the other Sith actually KNEW you are secretly following the light side, then they'd probably kill/banish you, but as long as you manage to prevent that, you are a Sith.
This. It goes both ways. A dark side Jedi is still a Jedi because he/she has not joined the organization formally known as "Sith." If said dark jedi is banished however, then he/she is simply exiled from the order, they will not be considered Sith unless they join their ranks.
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do."-Confucius The Analects

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
07.21.2012 , 11:06 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Naphariel View Post
I think you guys are getting a little too philosophical.
The Sith and Jedi orders are nothing more than organizations made up of certain individuals.
As long as other members of the organization recognize you to be one of them, you are a Sith/Jedi. Alignment has nothing to do with it.
Of course, if the other Sith actually KNEW you are secretly following the light side, then they'd probably kill/banish you, but as long as you manage to prevent that, you are a Sith.
^This. If one specific Dark Side Jedi in the past would have won on Tython, the Jedi would be a Dark Side organization and still be called Jedi.

There are light side Sith, but they are (normally) considered as heretics by the other Sith. In religions, heretics are normally still considered as part of the religion, but as people who got it wrong and must be stopped. And "stopped" means "killed" in the Sith order.

There are at least two points where you see that in the game:

1. On Korriban: An Inquisitor asks you to kill some heretic acolytes.
2. On Dromund Kaas: You find the teachings of a light side Sith (his holocron) in the Dark Temple.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall