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Sooo why be a tank again?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Sooo why be a tank again?

SuperomegaOP's Avatar

03.31.2012 , 08:57 PM | #21
good luck going dps as vanguard then... tactics is utter garbage and AS is pretty random burst dps, also good luck on switching targets on the fly in pvp/pve when your main dot is 1/4 of your resource bar...

stay SS, we do very nice damage in pvp and we are very solid tanks all around in everything...

Zocat's Avatar

03.31.2012 , 09:09 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by MidichIorian View Post
People are always looking for tanks on my server so your server is either dead on the PvE side or it's simply a matter of you not playing end-game yet. There's really no need for tanks in FP'es pre-50 but they're highly sought after at 50.
Only for FPs though. Not for operations.

1 tank, 1 heal, 2 dps
How is it for 8man operations? Or 16man operations? 1 (they want to change it to 2).

I always see "LF tank for fp hm". Yes.
But I never see "LF tank for operation" Only "heal / dd".

They should've just done:
FP: 1 tank, 1 heal, 2 dps
8man op: 2 tank, 2 heal, 4 dps
16man op: 4 tank, 4 heal, 8 dps

Achromatis's Avatar

03.31.2012 , 09:09 PM | #23
Edit: Agree with the above for group composition, it cant be that difficult to design encounters to need more tanks and be less of a dps race.

Duno, most other Juggernauts I see are going around as Veng(Im level 47 now) so groups are always happy to see that Im actually Immortal specd. And it also lets me use whichever companion I feel like using, be it a healer or dps or even a tank(makes it slower, but doable).

In Warzones I spend most of my time running around taunting/guarding instead of running in the middle+AoE taunt+dieing and being useless to my team, and I still get top score most of the time! Stay low key and run assist with DPSers and its a ball.

Plus I think a single lightsaber looks better than dualing them, and I like heavy gear, so Im more than happy with my Juggernaut in the looks department.

Healers are more rare though, and MUCH more of a pain to level(as healing specd) than it is to level as a tank. I also already have a level 50 Medic Op otherwise Id be leveling one of those.
Not Meant to Be a Factual Statement

The plural of anecdote is not data

FourTwent's Avatar

03.31.2012 , 09:30 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Tetrablade View Post
For a 1-3 hour investment only one person might get a gear token, 3 for Kaon.
I remember when completing a raid didn't guarantee you raid loot, using the term 'skunked' when it was all a bunch of vendor trash.

stephenjohnp's Avatar

03.31.2012 , 11:02 PM | #25
OP is right. At the moment, you only need 1 tank. Also, people rarely run Hardmodes these days since you can run Normal mode Raids pretty soon after you hit 50, so as long as you have a guild you can start doing those pretty much straight away and you'll probably get more gear from those.

Ultimately, Tanks are simply not needed. Healers and DPS are needed far more. I wish the composition of groups scaled with the size of the groups, but it just doesn't, for Tanks at least, it does with everyone else.

Battilea's Avatar

03.31.2012 , 11:53 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Dayfax View Post
But if you're just an average Joe on the server and want to tank, there are very few options for you.
Well, if you want to raid, yeah, won't be that many options. This is normal in most every game. A good tank who knows the fights is usually the first thing you look for if you want to raid. And they come from guild or friend lists. A good healer or two is the next thing. And after you've got that, then you start to PUG things.

If you want single group content though, well, tanks are looked for there. And, of course, you can always form groups, the willingness to do so being far more important than anything else. That said, this game does little to encourage the running of single group content. You can get geared up faster/easier by doing the normal mode operations. The HM FPs themselves don't reward columi badges, but that's what people are mostly after, tionese is junk. So people just do the daily and for that, they do the fastest, easiest thing.

A big flaw with the game, they need to do more to encourage people to run HM FPs. Sadly, 1.2 pretty much misses the boat there, instead mostly adding more solo content.

In WoW, I had pretty much had the same experience as the OP. Rolled a warrior with the intention of tanking, then very quickly realize my endgame options were much more narrow than DPS or healers.
In WoW, it was my healer that I got into actual good raids, guild ones or closer groups. Always a healer shortage and, as a good healer, I got to run my share. After that, DPS slot and the tank slot was hardest of all. Luckily, I was the guild MT so did my tanking there. But once they added dual spec, it became less of an issue.

For this game, DPS is the easiest slot to get in as. Ideally ranged DPS, either merc or sniper. Don't see people looking for tanks or healers that often.

Elyx's Avatar

04.01.2012 , 12:16 PM | #27
I think the issue involves allot of parameters:

1) server populations are small enough that smaller population trends can have an impact on the needs of groups.

2) most players are either seriously Alt'ing, or are leveling an Alt waiting for new HM"s to come around. either way, most people have a main to feed their alts with seriously OP gear. And that's if they don't play PvP. back when the game was new, and people didn't have purples stacked (and they didn't have experience with the game, like running a 4th toon through the same FP's), you needed a tank. I remember early on having to respec into a tank spec in my mid 20's simply because people were still L2P mode. most of us are auto-play now.

3) they made PvP in this game and awards for PvP far to easy to accomplish. Add to that the fact that there isn't enough of a disparity between PvP stats and Pve stats, and why would you try to get 4 people together when you can auto-Q for a PvP run while you do dailies? It's basically the SWtOR version of RDF, but it's PvP only. it all adds up to the fact that PvP is easy to do, easy to get to, and the rewards are Easy. If they tied in higher level gear in PvP with rated PvP, you would see the number of people Q-ing drop DRASTICALLY for PvP. It would only prove how easy it is currently to get gear in PvP.

4) the games economy is unbalanced. at lower levels, on your first toon, you suffer for either cash or resources. At 50, it flows like water. I've payed for 6 different alts for their speeders and crafting on my main, and still average over 500k collecting dust, and that's just from dailies. getting gear from the AH or a crafting alt is easier then trying to pick up a group for FP's. even though they can be fun.

5) rewards for grouping early on are slim. the gear you get is outleveled within 5 levels, and you can make just as good from crafting. The Social point system is a fantastic idea, but needs more fullness to really be enticing. Unless your a light armor wearer, there's nothing worth buying. Most people get just enough social points to gear up a companion or two in the dancers outfit and leave it at that. Not to mention that no actualy FP's are worth their spit for Social points past BT/Eselles. why struggle through a level-appropriate run for 20-30 pts when you can speed run BT/Ess and get 180-300 points in half the time? SP accruement needs to be rebalanced.

Sorry for the spam, but its just a piece of all the reasons people aren't running FP's while leveling anymore. I was running them non stop the first 2-3 weeks of the game. a month later, they were ghosts towns.

And if you don't run FP's, theres no reason to roll a "tank" unless you simply want to play the spec. Now....Im currently leveling 2 alts as tanks SOLELY, and with a DPS companion they level fast and quite stable. Not quite as fast as the same class with a healing compaion in DPS spec, but the flexibility is fun. SWtOR is one of the few MMO's that leveling a tank spec can actually be fun.
"I just hit 50 and finished my class storyline, but I still haven't been able to decide which AC to choose. Leveling solo as a warrior wasn't difficult, so I kept putting off the decision.
Anyone else having the same problem? "~ lagerhat - And who says warriors are broke?

hadoken's Avatar

04.01.2012 , 12:45 PM | #28
Honestly it isn't any different in any MMO. When it comes to non pug content (operations) the core roles are usually already filled. Getting there, however, can be a pain if you're not one.

Herew's Avatar

04.01.2012 , 02:13 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by FourTwent View Post
I remember when completing a raid didn't guarantee you raid loot, using the term 'skunked' when it was all a bunch of vendor trash.
Yup and then Blizzard discovered that they could make more money catering to a larger crowd. And "hardcore" became the minority in MMO's.

OT: Think it largely depends on server. On my server there is a large amounts of Jedi Guardians rep side and therefore a lot of potential tanks. Healers are usually the most wanted.
Member of squadron 950A
Heru - Jedi Guardian - Bloodworthy

EwromFlyingrider's Avatar

04.01.2012 , 05:44 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Tetrablade View Post
I just hit 39 as a vanguard when I realized something. On my server either people are standing around to do warzones or leveling alts. However you don't need to do flashpoints to level because it really won't effect your leveling at all. So that means most people are doing hard modes at 50 right? Nope. Cause you can get the equivalent to about columi gear doing warzones. So right now if you are a tank, or an upcoming tank you are pretty much useless outside of pvp. Since you only need one tank for a raid, and that means at least 8 people getting locked out of doing that raid on your server, the chances of you becoming a tank for any guild is pretty slim. That means that three ac choices become melee dps despite being handicapped compared to other dps counterparts.

I have to give it to bioware, first mmo ever where tanks were in to much abundance.

Edit: For clarification, I have a 50 scoundrel healer in some rakata. This is not posted without some idea of the needs of raids.
I always played a tank so it just comes natural. I think I'm a pretty decent one when it comes to pvp and groups. Plus were always in demand so.