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Relics?


nToxiK's Avatar


nToxiK
03.20.2012 , 01:17 PM | #1
Any comments on which relic would be better for a MM Sniper? I assume both cannot be used at the same time because they have similar functions.

Dark Energy Surge http://www.torhead.com/item/dDStgBn/dark-energy-surge
"Equip: Damaging attacks have a 30% chance to deal 168 additional internal damage to the target. This effect can only occur once every 4.5 seconds, and shares this limit with similar damage-dealing effects."

Energy Surge Device http://www.torhead.com/item/6zN0SeL/energy-surge-device
"Equip: Damaging attacks have a 30% chance to deal 224 additional energy damage to the target. This effect can only occur once every 4.5 seconds, and shares this limit with similar damage-dealing effects."

Ayestes's Avatar


Ayestes
03.20.2012 , 02:15 PM | #2
It depends on whether you are debuffing the armor enough or not. If you have 3 or more sources of a 20% armor debuff then utilize the energy/kinetic damage variety. Otherwise use the internal/elemental damage.

Edit: Tibbel has pointed out that it is 2 or more sources of a 20% armor debuff, not 3.
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muffinslol's Avatar


muffinslol
03.20.2012 , 02:18 PM | #3
would the internal damage apply to cull, i wonder? cause technically the corrosive grenade and dart are internal damage which is posions? right?
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Gimia's Avatar


Gimia
03.20.2012 , 04:50 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by muffinslol View Post
would the internal damage apply to cull, i wonder? cause technically the corrosive grenade and dart are internal damage which is posions? right?
Cull's damage won't be increased due to the proc dealing the damage only once and not being an actual DoT (which is where the extra damage comes from).
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muffinslol's Avatar


muffinslol
03.20.2012 , 05:18 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Gimia View Post
Cull's damage won't be increased due to the proc dealing the damage only once and not being an actual DoT (which is where the extra damage comes from).
oh for some reason i thought it was a dot woops!!
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Tibbel's Avatar


Tibbel
03.20.2012 , 05:32 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Ayestes View Post
It depends on whether you are debuffing the armor enough or not. If you have 3 or more sources of a 20% armor debuff then utilize the energy/kinetic damage variety. Otherwise use the internal/elemental damage.
Ops bosses have 35% armor. (source)

That's an armor rating of 5815. (from formula: source)

Base armor rating 5815 = 35.00% mitigation --> 224 0.6500 = 145.6 damage per proc
- 1 20% debuff = 4652 = 30.11% mitigation --> 224 0.6989 = 156.6 damage per proc
- 2 20% debuff = 3489 = 24.42% mitigation --> 224 0.7558 = 169.3 damage per proc
- 3 20% debuff = 2362 = 17.95% mitigation --> 224 0.8205 = 183.8 damage per proc

It's pretty close either way, but to be precise, the 224 kinetic damage proc is stronger than the 168 internal damage proc if you have 2 or more 20% armor debuffs on the boss.

(As an aside, note how the first 20% reduction in armor increases kinetic/energy damage by 7.55%, whereas the third increases kinetic/energy damage by 8.56%. That's the nature of linear reductions to a stat with diminishing returns -- exponential scaling of armor penetration.)

nToxiK's Avatar


nToxiK
03.21.2012 , 08:09 AM | #7
What are the other classes that can debuff armor?

Snipers can use Shatter Shot for 20% debuff.

Others?

I didn't realize that the armor debuffs stacked.

Ayestes's Avatar


Ayestes
03.21.2012 , 08:12 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Tibbel View Post
It's pretty close either way, but to be precise, the 224 kinetic damage proc is stronger than the 168 internal damage proc if you have 2 or more 20% armor debuffs on the boss.
Thank you very much for the correction.

I can say offhand I know that at the very least Tracer Missile stacks up to applying an Armor Debuff. There are more sources then that and Shatter Shot, though.
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XisscVekno's Avatar


XisscVekno
03.21.2012 , 05:01 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by nToxiK View Post
What are the other classes that can debuff armor?

Snipers can use Shatter Shot for 20% debuff.

Others?

I didn't realize that the armor debuffs stacked.
Mercs and Juggs are the other 2 that I know of. We don't run with Sins very often and I never noticed them putting up a debuff for armor.
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Tibbel's Avatar


Tibbel
03.21.2012 , 05:10 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by XisscVekno View Post
Mercs and Juggs are the other 2 that I know of. We don't run with Sins very often and I never noticed them putting up a debuff for armor.
Yeah, Juggernauts (Guardians) of any spec or Arsenal Mercenaries (Gunnery Commandos) can apply stacking armor debuffs.

Both of those specs' debuffs give 4% armor reduction per stack, up to 5 stacks (so 20% total). Our Shatter Shot (Flourish Shot for smugglers) gives a full 20% in one application, and after patch 1.2, 20% reduced healing taken (for 9s).