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IA: Operative / Smuggler: Scoundel (dsp) - Will 1.2 ressurect this dead class?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
IA: Operative / Smuggler: Scoundel (dsp) - Will 1.2 ressurect this dead class?

Mailek's Avatar


Mailek
03.08.2012 , 01:29 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Cruces View Post
Thoughts?
IA: Operative (dsp) and Smuggler: Scoundrel are dead classes.

Groups and Raids don't want them, and they don't have the mechanics to be viable in PvP.
The nerf took away their burst, which may have been needed, but there are no other abiities of this class (other than their nerfed burst) that makes them viable in PvP.

thoughts for ressurecting this dead class for dps?
Hmm so my Operative healer friend helped with us on our Operation last night before helping another group at Karagga's Palace. Oh ya nobody wants him in their group.....

I will say this, yes you guys need adjustments, he works his *** off to get top healer in WZs where a Sorc or BH doesn't have as much trouble. Problem stems from our resource pool, Sorcs don't run out, but Operatives always do unless you really manage it.

Why didn't you mention Snipers? Aren't we the worst class in this game? That's another LOL, I'm a hybrid spec and I get in the top 5 for DPS all the time. I do have to work my *** off as well, and our defensive bubble lasts 4 seconds and it's useless against force classes (which make up the majority of WZs).

Btw I've had my *** kicked by Ops/Scoundrels in PvP, so if you know what you're doing, they can still be a force. They just aren't Sorc/Sage retard mode.

For the record, there are less Snipers/Gunslingers then there are Operatives/Scoundrels.

Know the facts before you QQ. Have a nice day.

Coldin's Avatar


Coldin
03.08.2012 , 01:37 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Mailek View Post
Hmm so my Operative healer friend helped with us on our Operation last night before helping another group at Karagga's Palace. Oh ya nobody wants him in their group.....

I will say this, yes you guys need adjustments, he works his *** off to get top healer in WZs where a Sorc or BH doesn't have as much trouble. Problem stems from our resource pool, Sorcs don't run out, but Operatives always do unless you really manage it.

Why didn't you mention Snipers? Aren't we the worst class in this game? That's another LOL, I'm a hybrid spec and I get in the top 5 for DPS all the time. I do have to work my *** off as well, and our defensive bubble lasts 4 seconds and it's useless against force classes (which make up the majority of WZs).

Btw I've had my *** kicked by Ops/Scoundrels in PvP, so if you know what you're doing, they can still be a force. They just aren't Sorc/Sage retard mode.

For the record, there are less Snipers/Gunslingers then there are Operatives/Scoundrels.

Know the facts before you QQ. Have a nice day.

Snipes/Gunslingers have some crazy DPS, and are in fact one of the few ranged DPS which is highly valuable in Operations. Snipers have some issues dealing with melee that are already in melee range, but that's part of the balance. They could possibly use some more tools to let them DPS on the run.

Scoundrel/Operative healing is...okay. DPS is...meh. They can still kill people in PVP, but it's a lot harder than other classes. Scoundrels also don't have any "finishing" moves that other classes get. An opponent gets down to 20-30%, and we're still doing the same DPS as before.

Silvatre's Avatar


Silvatre
03.08.2012 , 02:22 PM | #13
I doubt that I will get any boost to Operative before my subscription time will end, so I don't really care :-) But who cares abut that either? :-D

Fallenturtle's Avatar


Fallenturtle
03.08.2012 , 02:29 PM | #14
On the topic of Sniper/slinger. It was confirmed by the Devs that they, along with the marauder, are the top DPS in the game.

I still play my operative, and yes, It takes me a LOT of gear, and a lot of luck to even do well in both pvp AND pve, where as it takes a sorc, or a merc, no effort at all. It's doable, but it's honestly like hitting things with a wet spoon hoping for that crit/surge/power to kick in.

I would love to see some sort of closing mechanism, and an increase in our sustained dps. I'm getting sick and tired in huttball being knocked off the platform by everyone in their mother having a knockback or a closing mechanism only to have to hit cloaking screen/evasion (only to be knocked out because everyone in their mother has an aoe and can see our stealth from 30m away it seems)

We are the bottom tier in terms of dps, yet we aren't aknowledged at all.. I mean, take a look at the graph they showed at the guild summit.. Smugglers and agent's are the least played class, not because we aren't Iconic, but because NO ONE WANTS US IN THEIR GROUP! Our only benefit is our battle rez and our group buff, and come legacy, who would want us in our current state when one person can spam all 4 buffs at once.

subrosian's Avatar


subrosian
03.08.2012 , 03:24 PM | #15
My Operative is shelved for the time being because it has nowhere to go. Yeah, I have raided, yes, I have PVP'd but the class just FEELS awful. The argument that you can make OPs work if you are a top notch player is completely off.... its like saying a top racecar driver would make a Pinto win. Painters use brushes, surgeons use scalpels... using rocks wouldn't prove their skill, it would call it into question.

I rerolled Assassin ans I love it. I actually want to log in and play now. My win rate has gone from 90% to 99% and I have more fun in Operations. I have tried every class but the Sniper and they are all fun, except for the Operative.
subrosian
<Epitome>
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chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
03.09.2012 , 12:10 AM | #16
I'm all for adjustments being made to Operatives, I really want to see them competitively healing and dps with the rest of the classes, and some quality of life//better utility given. However, I actually *like* my class overall. It kind of disturbs me to see people calling out for a complete redesign...
There's rarely a class that everyone is going to love to play. If you really hate everything about it, it's just not your class. I.E. Merc dps feels pretty awful to me, but I do like the healing.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Jeralin's Avatar


Jeralin
03.09.2012 , 01:34 AM | #17
I am apparently in the minority and absolutely love my Scoundrel for PVP. And while I wouldn't argue with an "execute" type ability, I'd much prefer a buff to our in-combat mobility, having to vanish to get a speed boost hurts. In regards to damage, I have no issues bursting through healers and breaking 300k damage dealt in a decent length warzone; breaking 5k with Shoot First is possible but uncommon with Inspiration+Expertise Adrenal. I rarely top the damage on the charts due to our lack of effective AE damage, but my single-target burst feels unrivaled, and only Sentinels/Maurauders seem more capable at locking down a caster.
For a bit of context: I am specced: 3/31/7 Until yesterday I was without a single BM item and I hit level 50 after the nerf.

I am, however, oblivious to our viability in Operations, but I fair well enough in the HM Flashpoints I've done.
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Papichulio's Avatar


Papichulio
03.09.2012 , 01:50 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Mailek View Post
For the record, there are less Snipers/Gunslingers then there are Operatives/Scoundrels.

Know the facts before you QQ. Have a nice day.
Ehmm official statistics released on the summit by Bioware say that smugglers are the least played but of smugglers 1/3 are scoundrels and 2/3 are snipers. You can find this official data on several locations, but a good overview you can find here : http://feature.mmosite.com/swtor/upc...d.shtml#ue_pic

Anyway, just shows that smugglers in general aren't popular for I am guessing several reasons...

LordbishopX's Avatar


LordbishopX
03.09.2012 , 08:41 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Papichulio View Post
Ehmm official statistics released on the summit by Bioware say that smugglers are the least played but of smugglers 1/3 are scoundrels and 2/3 are snipers. You can find this official data on several locations, but a good overview you can find here : http://feature.mmosite.com/swtor/upc...d.shtml#ue_pic

Anyway, just shows that smugglers in general aren't popular for I am guessing several reasons...
Its star wars and if you look at the most popular characters in the lore Darth Maul and the rest of the light saber wielding classes are the most popular. It just goes to show it follows suit here. What star wars game that are successful that peeps don't play a light saber using bad ***. How many han solo games have peeps made lol.
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EthanThristam's Avatar


EthanThristam
03.09.2012 , 01:09 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Fallenturtle View Post
On the topic of Sniper/slinger. It was confirmed by the Devs that they, along with the marauder, are the top DPS in the game.
Dev posts are rarely grounded in reality.

Now let's suppoose its a PvE boss, in which there are no mechanics that require movement for many of our specs. .....Maybe. But I'm still not seeing it. Up there? Sure. Best? No. Let's say its dirty fighting with all the mobility too? Still up there, but no.

The usual litmus test that's brought up is the Infernal Council on Nightmare. Now again, this is all personal observations, but I've never seen a Gunslinger finish an Infernal Marauder first. In fact they usually are near last of the DPS if they're all in equivalent gear. The reason why they might shine though are the encounters which don't require much movement and are melee unfriendly. On those? Sure, they might just beat out the odd Mercenary/Commando, but I rather doubt that.

In PvP there are rare occasions in which I've seen a gunslinger break 400k damage on games where they have 0 deaths(lol). But I've yet to see the 500, 600, 700k DPS that Sorcerors/Sages, Powertechs/Vanguards....et al. Can put out under similar circumstances.

Most would cite survivability in the latter, and indeed, survivability is our primary problem, but I qualified it by saying it was the rare 0 death, 100% uptime on DPS warzone, which does happen on occasion.

I'm not saying that the warzone boards are the best litmus test, given how DPS actually works, but its still a good qualifier. I'd like to challenge any of you to bring me a screenshot of a Gunslinger exceeding 500k, then ask that same Gunslinger how often it occurs.

Again, this is all pure observation without any objective data outside of combat logs, but I really doubt every Gunslinger I've interacted with, including myself, is just that bad. I don't see us as being 5% higher in DPS than every other DPS class, but I do see us within the top 3-4 DPS consistently.