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IA: Operative / Smuggler: Scoundel (dsp) - Will 1.2 ressurect this dead class?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
IA: Operative / Smuggler: Scoundel (dsp) - Will 1.2 ressurect this dead class?

Cruces's Avatar


Cruces
03.06.2012 , 11:29 PM | #1
Thoughts?
IA: Operative (dsp) and Smuggler: Scoundrel are dead classes.

Groups and Raids don't want them, and they don't have the mechanics to be viable in PvP.
The nerf took away their burst, which may have been needed, but there are no other abiities of this class (other than their nerfed burst) that makes them viable in PvP.

thoughts for ressurecting this dead class for dps?

SwaggaX's Avatar


SwaggaX
03.07.2012 , 03:06 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Cruces View Post
Thoughts?
IA: Operative (dsp) and Smuggler: Scoundrel are dead classes.

Groups and Raids don't want them, and they don't have the mechanics to be viable in PvP.
The nerf took away their burst, which may have been needed, but there are no other abiities of this class (other than their nerfed burst) that makes them viable in PvP.

thoughts for ressurecting this dead class for dps?
Not only the damage, but also reduced the stun by 50% off of one of operative's main abilities and stealth opener (Hidden Strike) and reduced Acid Blade's Armor Penetration Buff from 50% to 30%.

CaptainInsano's Avatar


CaptainInsano
03.07.2012 , 03:50 AM | #3
To be honest, their healing might be even more dead. The only reason they get any play as healers is because healing is a valuable role. The 2-3 Scoundrels still left on my server have all respecced healing and run exclusively in premades, but even they know they can't be trusted to be the sole healer in PvP which is why they always bring a Sage with them. They might be even worse at healing compared to a Sorc/Sage than they are at DPS compared to, say, an Assassin. I think at this point everyone is just waiting for something to be done with the class to make it viable. In the meantime they'll play their new characters.

Shroudveil's Avatar


Shroudveil
03.07.2012 , 05:40 AM | #4
atm it is widely accepted that scoundrels/operatives are the worse AC of the game by miles.

they need some utility to counterbalance all their faults:

concealment: good dps (not the best, but passable) but no way to stay/go on target in pve and to add to that they offer nothing to the operation
lethality: there isn't anything in the tree to justify it being a pve dps tree, not enough damage, offers nothing, slow start up and etc
medic:...worst healing class for pve by miles, offers nothing more for much more effort.

what i would like to see is not just number tweaks, but actual helpful changes:

concealment: give them some way to either go to target instantly (charge and etc) or to not be so eaily pushed away (kb/root/snare immunity either on cd or after leaving stealth or something). they also need a quicker way to go into stealth in prolongued fights or else their dps suffers alot

lethality: they really need to be a 10m class, not mellee, yet the fact that they need to do a melle attack every 6secs or else they cant use their main 10m range attack is plain oversight. They also need to bring something to the operation. p.e. a 5%more damage received (for everyone) debuff added to weaking blast would be good

medicine: this tree seriously needs some help. atm the 2 main problems are that 3/6healing spells are sseriously underperforming, so we are left with only half the toold we were given, and those tools were the least of any healing class, and the fact they have 0 healings cds and 0 utility spells. either add utility, or add superior burst healing compared to the other 2 healers. i was thinking, that since healing wise this tree is underperforming to say the least, they could just give it utility in the form of making it more offense oriented, like giving it moves to dps without sacrificing healing: p.e. a talent that gives a debuff to corrosive dart that says something along the lines" whoever hits the target with melee attacks get healed by X" or a talent like "critical hits with backstab make your next direct cast heal a critical" or something along those lines.
Quote:
Georg Zoeller: A scoundrel, for example, is capable of producing rather significant burst healing output by using Upper Hand gained from Underworld Medicine or Kolto Injection to trigger an instant Emergency Medpack or Surgical probe when needed.

Cruces's Avatar


Cruces
03.07.2012 , 11:11 PM | #5
Both the dps IA:Operative and Smuggler:Scoundel are dead classes atm.
Nothing they bring to the table another class can't do much better.

I guess we find out if Bioware knows how to manage a MMO come 1.2.

(although, 1.2 should have been in place for release)

Powderhorn's Avatar


Powderhorn
03.08.2012 , 12:27 AM | #6
The problem is the class is very one dimensional: Burst DPS. They took the burst out of it, and they were never able to sustain DPS in the first place. Now the scoundrel is a class that people only play because they don't feel like rolling up a new character. A lot of them have already dropped their subscriptions.
Westley, 50 Scoundrel, Deadweight Server
Tech users, rise up against the force-user oppression!

Twenynge's Avatar


Twenynge
03.08.2012 , 10:11 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Shroudveil View Post
atm it is widely accepted that scoundrels/operatives are the worse AC of the game by miles.
Sniper says hello.

Polimeris's Avatar


Polimeris
03.08.2012 , 10:28 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Twenynge View Post
Sniper says hello.
In PvP, that's arguable (even if both class are still playable and enjoyable). But in PvE, snipers are crazy good.
.
Dandy : Hectic, Jeem, Vrulmugueunne, Gaour, Gorgoth, Volkaresh.

Scoloplastic's Avatar


Scoloplastic
03.08.2012 , 10:51 AM | #9
I'm hoping for some major overhauls to the class.

It's obvious that the preliminary design of the class was to be the biggest burst oriented class - which was thrown out the window due to player complaints (and the fact that, at least at the time with the buff stacking and higher surge, it was indeed imbalanced).

As a champion geared scoundrel, the burst is still good, but not good enough to warrant being so situational - I am only good in a fight when i open on someone from stealth - but not good enough to make it so i'm only allowed to do it so few times a match.

Other than this burst, which isn't even the best in the game right now (Pyrotech Powertechs got that at the moment) - and is pretty much the same as most of the other DPS classes can put out constantly - we pretty much have nothing.

Stunlock? Powertechs can do a 4 sec stun (ranged) plus 3 more seconds of carbonize. jugs can do 3 (4 with pvp gear) of force choke + 2-3 seconds of knockdown from push etc etc...

Honestly, in my opinion, either the damage of flechette round needs to be significantly improved (perhaps allow it to stack) - so our sustained damage is better - or we should get a shadowstep ability that also lets us use a 20% reduced damage shootfirst (can share a CD with stealth to deny us the ability to chain two shootfirsts\hidden strikes) - that would also allow me to use my vanish as a purely defensive ability.

Here's to hoping fixes come next patch. If they don't, i got 2 options, reroll or quit, since i work full time, rerolling is a problem for me - it will take me months to get to 50 and gear up again - so i won't have much choice

Shroudveil's Avatar


Shroudveil
03.08.2012 , 01:23 PM | #10
atm i think most operatives have already rerolled to either sorc or merc. the differance is just too huge to ignore.


they had their chance in 1.12, in 1.1.3, in 1.1.4, in 1.1.5 yet not only they chose to not do anything but nerf the weakest class in pve atm but they also pushed back whatever changes they have planned for ~2months.

IF they really care they should just push operative changes first and then the rest of the 1.2, but alas they wont, not for the lowest by far (and rapidly declining due to no attention at all) class of the game. they are a company and they do what they do for profit. atm profit= sage/sorc and knight/warrior. hence why they dont nerf sorc and why the referance to "knights/warriors get new abilities" in the summit.
Quote:
Georg Zoeller: A scoundrel, for example, is capable of producing rather significant burst healing output by using Upper Hand gained from Underworld Medicine or Kolto Injection to trigger an instant Emergency Medpack or Surgical probe when needed.