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Sniper Marksman


KennehBE's Avatar


KennehBE
02.23.2012 , 04:45 AM | #21
so conclusion is that MM is still very viable as pvp spec, as much as lethality

Stranger_LDR's Avatar


Stranger_LDR
02.23.2012 , 06:47 AM | #22
one of the awesomest gunslingers on my server is sharpshooter/eng - nuff said. you can theorycraft as long as you want tho.
A little something for bad haters
Baby (shadow) - Holy (scoundrel) - Toy (sniper)

Hyrune's Avatar


Hyrune
02.23.2012 , 07:58 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by MaroBaro View Post
(...)
On a good day heavy armor gives you 25% damage mitigation. Now I am not matematician but with Shatter Shot you are left with about 20%, then with 112% accuracy the damage mitigation will go down to 17%, and with ambush bypassing 20% from talents you are looking at about 14% damage mitigation. And this is for heavy armor. Medium is about 8-9% and light armor is about 5%. And I can bet you that my MM shots deal way more than 14% extra IMEDIATE damage than lethality.
First, accuracy over 100% does NOT reduce the armor protection but the defense i.e. chance to be deflected.

Second, when it comes to armor I would break down things like this:
* Tank : armor reduces about 50 % energy/kinetic damage and stance/talent reduces about 10 % (20% Sorc/Sage buffed) elem/internal damage
* Heavy dps : about 30 % / 0%
* Other : up to 20 %

If you consider the seconds, Shatter should reduce their armor from 30% to 24%

Ravikar's Avatar


Ravikar
02.23.2012 , 09:45 AM | #24
Shatter shot removes 20% of the armor stat, which seems pretty close to the percentage of mitigation. On myself with mitigation 24%, removing 20% of my armor stat gives me 21% mitigation. Hence why I dont bother even using shatter shot because its a difference of 3% damage (I am lethality though), although I can see it being useful stacking with ambush -20% armor.
Ravikar Baenre - Imperial Agent: Level 39

shaghat's Avatar


shaghat
02.23.2012 , 09:54 AM | #25
Marksman is the best spec to play in team.

In pvp you don't kill solo if you want the victory.

You have preshoot and burst to kill and only to kill.
Sometime you have to wait and execute a big burst at the better moment.
In pvp you search the surprise effect.
You play against healer you need to play with her reactivity.
The first generally healer play the emergency and outburst player with low life.

Play lethality you do nothing your dot is like sending a mail hello this guy come to die.

Pvp is more subtile than put all your damage and cc at the engage.

Take sos this skill si designed for pvp.

4 tick with two at the "end" to play with followthroug this is to make surprise first shoot not make enough damage and healer think they have the time to switch but at the end is awful two sos tick and a folllowthroug at the same moment.

If is not enough you have an 1.5 ambush and take down to put 7k end damage.

Hyrune's Avatar


Hyrune
02.23.2012 , 09:56 AM | #26
Even if Shatter removes 6 % of damage reduction it could worth it (on a 30% heavy armored dps)
from the sniper point of view, a shot at 700 would now do 760.
Not far from a 10 % boost.

I read in pve theorycrafting that several armor debuffs are added, so 5 player could remove the armor of a boss.

That's why I usually keep a Shatter on every Soldier/Jedi Knight I fight unless he will be down very fast.

MightyHalo's Avatar


MightyHalo
02.23.2012 , 12:37 PM | #27
lol lethality will be a dead spec with ranked warzones. Clowns saying MM is a PVE spec are just imbeciles.

Juumix's Avatar


Juumix
02.23.2012 , 12:56 PM | #28
This conversation piqued my interest. Honestly it all depends on the role you take in your warzone. And even more, I think a lot of serious pvp'ers have either recently left WoW or have the same kind of mentality.

Warzones are akin to battlegrounds, not arenas. Mobility, survivability and DoT damage are all great in arenas. They're great in Warzones too, you can put a lot of pressure on a healer if one person is bursting one guy and the other is dotted up pretty badly, it puts consistent pressure on a person.

In arenas, you have to be a lot more self-sufficient, have to be able to deal with a person running up into your face, have to have a good way to escape situations yet still put pressure. So why are Warzones different? Simply put most warzones are mission driven, have a goal to capture something. Arenas were focused on killing players, not capturing points.

I've pvp'd as all 3 specs and a couple of different hybrid specs. My favorite by far was marksman, I'm good at keeping away from front lines and keeping a healer from just turret healing. Does that mean marksman is the best pvp spec? No, it doesn't. If I get a shadow in my face I'm hard pressed to keep him off of me, let alone deal with what my team needs me to do. So take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt, everyone has a different playstyle that is useful in some way.

DrekorSilverfang's Avatar


DrekorSilverfang
02.23.2012 , 01:06 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Xizari View Post
You do realize:

A. Marksman burst is AWFUL against any class with mitigation or heavy armor?
B. Big deal we do the most burst, we also have the least survivability, and the least mobility. Damage is not always the most important...just look at how good Juggernauts are in PvP or how Warlocks were in early WoW when they used SL/SL. Damage =/= Good at PvP.
C. Easily dispelled? It's not that easy to dispel if you're a competent Lethality sniper...

.
Heavy armor alone is not enough, getting 4k+ crits against mercs, CMs and DPS juggs isn't hard or uncommon in the least. The only ones with half decent mitigation are tank spec'd tanks in tank stance and Lethality really doesn't fair much better and if the other team has a operative or merc present lethality SHOULD be worthless unless those ops/mercs are retarded.

Least survivability? I have more mitigation than a DPS jugg. The only classes I would seriously say are more survivable would be a marauder and a tank/hybrid sin. If you're talking about getting focused by 5 people it really doesn't matter what class you are, you're dead in 2 seconds. I think far to many people play MM and forgot that you can move and doing so brings benefits especially when you have things like snapshot and ballistic dampers. If you have to stay put? entrench, shield probe and ballistic shield to add more fun. You have more tools to survive then nearly anyone else out there, don't give me that not survivable ********.

Not easy to dispel against lethality? Click button. You now have no poison effects on target which kills your damage since you have no DoT's ticking and major reduction in cull damage.

Xizari's Avatar


Xizari
02.23.2012 , 08:54 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by MaroBaro View Post
Sometimes things seem better on paper than they really are. People seem to overvalue armor way too much. And while it is true that against a well geared tank we are going to have trouble so will almost any class. You run out of energy, distance and time way faster when you are lethality. 18k damage is a lot of dots for a long time so you won't be able to pop a couple of CDs and possibily stop that tank from scoring on Huttball... you have got a little bit more options with MM such as knockback ambush, root cover pulse, and a lot more damage on demand from Followthru and Insta-Snipe. As for Distance since you spend more time in cover tanks cannot leap at you. So if you are on the top platform in huttball they have to just take it and when and if they start getting close they have to deal with flashbang, debilitate, cover pulse, leg shot,knockback ambush and 9 seconds of -45% acc, plus 3 seconds where they cannot do damage to you.

This is true. I guess it comes down to what you consider to be PvP success. This game isn't WoW where if you were good at killing, you could be Gladiator and claim bragging rights. It comes down to Objective Points. Kills/Damage done are secondary. At the moment the game gives us freedom which is proven by the fact we can sit here and argue the PvP viability of all 3 of our trees. I'm slightly curious to see what emerges as the top choice once Ranked Warzones come out. There are scenarios where Marksman can be viable and even better, but the best way to put it is that Marksman is situational. For team play (coordinated pre-mades) it can be great, but it has weaknesses. For solo queues, Lethality tends to be much more versatile with the fact that you get a ton of snares/stuns/slows/dots .

I find Lethality to be a better spec for going on the offensive. If you want to push objectives, run around, kill people, etc...Leth or Leth/Eng is far superior. If you want to say ... defend on Civil War or Voidstar, then Marksman is great. You can set up somewhere and torch people (as long as they aren't tanks).


Oh and Ballistic Shield is sorta ****** in PvP. There are SO many knock-backs in this game, all it takes is someone with half a brain to use one and knock you out of cover to end your Shield (though sometimes i see the shield stay up even though I'm out of cover, not sure if that's a bug or not). Until Entrench is fixed to grant us immunity to knock-backs I would hesitate to claim that Ballistic Shield is great in cover.
Vizari of (US) Helm of Graush, formerly known as Shadowfiend of WoW (US) The Underbog
Quote: Originally Posted by Xizari View Post
It usually is the people with the worst or most derivative names found standing in fire and dying. It's almost science: The more intellectually offensive someone's name is, the more likely they are terrible at everything.