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Why are Ops/Mercs mad at forums?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Why are Ops/Mercs mad at forums?

Sykomyke's Avatar


Sykomyke
01.27.2012 , 08:34 AM | #1
As the title says...why are Operatives/Mercenaries mad at the forums for all the QQ over their classes? I'm not saying I enjoy fighting these classes either, but I don't think people understand the implications of why they are being adjusted (nerfed).

People are angry at Operatives(Smugglers) because of their ability to keep someone nearly perma-stunned and being able to 3-4 shot people in PvP. (World of Roguecraft all over again).

@ Ops: You honestly felt like 3 shotting people was right? You honestly thought that people not being able to counter you at all, even though they use their CC break was right? People don't mind crowd control abilities if they are somewhat balanced, but people do not like complete loss of control of their character, and in that same duration going from 100%-0%.

That's a failure of game balance, and IMO a failure of adding a stealth burst class. (Why must every stealth class also be a burst class?...For that matter why even have stealth? Nothing but problems ever come up with stealth classes)

The 2nd thing I've noticed on the forums is players angry at Mercenaries(Commandos).

While people are obviously frustrated at the amount of tools in their kit (Heavy Armor, Heals, Damage that goes through most defenses, PBAoE Knockback) the main frustrating is really a balance of quality of life.

What I mean by this is most people on these classes spam either Tracer Missle or Grav Round. Over and over and over. The problem people have with this is the class becomes stupidly oversimplified. The developers should have seen this coming, if you create a crazy synergized build with a very good dps ability as the core of the build, you're going to have people spam that attack.

The problem other classes have with this is that they have to use a variety of abilities at their disposal to get the same effect. The result? While a juggernaut has to use various abilities and tactical use and timing of them to put out adequate DPS, a Mercenary can literally just spam one button to get the same result. It boils down to where one class has to put significantly less effort into playing their class then another. Players realize this and ask "Why was this class made to be used so easily, and this other class not?"

Again, why are these players mad at the QQ being directed at their class? There are obvious flaws in both of these class designs, one being too much burst (which is being fixed in 1.1.1) the other being an oversimplied class (DPS wise) with too many tools at their disposal (Defensively).
"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
Sith Empire

mutee's Avatar


mutee
01.27.2012 , 08:41 AM | #2
Why are mercs annoyed? Most likely because of the whiney guys who are extremely bad complaining about them when they're not overpowered, they're simple to play, easy to counter but bads who allow them to spam tracer missile/grav round on them come here to complain.

zerobounds's Avatar


zerobounds
01.27.2012 , 08:59 AM | #3
The only people complaining about Mercs are the ones that get spanked and have never played the class.

Sykomyke's Avatar


Sykomyke
01.27.2012 , 09:07 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by mutee View Post
Why are mercs annoyed? Most likely because of the whiney guys who are extremely bad complaining about them when they're not overpowered, they're simple to play, easy to counter but bads who allow them to spam tracer missile/grav round on them come here to complain.
I don't allow mercs to missile spam. I force charge(counts as an interrupt), use my interrupt, force choke, use interrupt again, force push, force charge again (still interrupts/roots with full resolve). As an Immortal spec Jugg i won't be able to kill them unless I get lucky but they usually will get frustrated and focus someone else.

The frustration with fighting a merc comes from where they can just essentially spam 1 button, (ease of use) versus where I have to use a variety of abilities *in every fight* in order to reach the same effect. It's whats called a quality of life improvement. Either lower the skillcap on other classes where they have such a powerful spammable tool at their disposal, or increase the skillcap on mercs.
"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
Sith Empire

GrumpySwe's Avatar


GrumpySwe
01.27.2012 , 09:17 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Sykomyke View Post
I don't allow mercs to missile spam. I force charge(counts as an interrupt), use my interrupt, force choke, use interrupt again, force push, force charge again (still interrupts/roots with full resolve). As an Immortal spec Jugg i won't be able to kill them unless I get lucky but they usually will get frustrated and focus someone else.

The frustration with fighting a merc comes from where they can just essentially spam 1 button, (ease of use) versus where I have to use a variety of abilities *in every fight* in order to reach the same effect. It's whats called a quality of life improvement. Either lower the skillcap on other classes where they have such a powerful spammable tool at their disposal, or increase the skillcap on mercs.
Mercs get angry at the idiots that just want tracer/grav nerfed, i think i can speak for a majority of mercs when i say that i would REALLY like if BW remade the skills BUT NO NERF. I mean ive done hardmode flashpoints while surfing ffs just because the arsenal spec is so simple and with no interrupts.
I got so bored and tired of the god awful merc tracer animation that i changed to bodyguard instead (healer).

mutee's Avatar


mutee
01.27.2012 , 10:11 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Sykomyke View Post
I don't allow mercs to missile spam. I force charge(counts as an interrupt), use my interrupt, force choke, use interrupt again, force push, force charge again (still interrupts/roots with full resolve). As an Immortal spec Jugg i won't be able to kill them unless I get lucky but they usually will get frustrated and focus someone else.

The frustration with fighting a merc comes from where they can just essentially spam 1 button, (ease of use) versus where I have to use a variety of abilities *in every fight* in order to reach the same effect. It's whats called a quality of life improvement. Either lower the skillcap on other classes where they have such a powerful spammable tool at their disposal, or increase the skillcap on mercs.
How easy certain classes are to play shouldn't annoy you, what should matter is how powerful a class is when played well, and a merc is not that powerful.

Also, only idiots spam tracer missile and they should be no problem for most classes to take down.

Sykomyke's Avatar


Sykomyke
01.27.2012 , 12:55 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by mutee View Post
How easy certain classes are to play shouldn't annoy you, what should matter is how powerful a class is when played well, and a merc is not that powerful.

Also, only idiots spam tracer missile and they should be no problem for most classes to take down.
Actually it does. Because good PvP play requires binds, I have most of my skills bound, but I feel like I need the dexterity of a professional pianist to be able to function properly in PvP.

I'm actually upgrading from my Razer DeathAdder to the Naga just so I can have more keybinds that are within easy reach (thumb).

If you use less skills to come to the same end result, it requires less stress.

Edit: Forget it. You're just defending your merc blindly without looking at the situation from an unbiased standpoint. And mercs are powerful when played properly as well as improperly. There's a difference but there isn't much there between a well played merc and not. That's kinda my point.
"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
Sith Empire

Leiloni's Avatar


Leiloni
01.27.2012 , 01:00 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Sykomyke View Post
The 2nd thing I've noticed on the forums is players angry at Mercenaries(Commandos).

While people are obviously frustrated at the amount of tools in their kit (Heavy Armor, Heals, Damage that goes through most defenses, PBAoE Knockback) the main frustrating is really a balance of quality of life.

What I mean by this is most people on these classes spam either Tracer Missle or Grav Round. Over and over and over. The problem people have with this is the class becomes stupidly oversimplified. The developers should have seen this coming, if you create a crazy synergized build with a very good dps ability as the core of the build, you're going to have people spam that attack.

The problem other classes have with this is that they have to use a variety of abilities at their disposal to get the same effect.
Well to be fair, the above also describes Sorcs/Sages except for the heavy armor part. But I have to also point out, that both Mercs and Sorcs are easy to counter. If they were hard to kill I'd agree with the QQ, but they're not.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1753652#edit1753270

GrifOrion's Avatar


GrifOrion
01.27.2012 , 01:34 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Sykomyke View Post
Actually it does. Because good PvP play requires binds, I have most of my skills bound, but I feel like I need the dexterity of a professional pianist to be able to function properly in PvP.

Edit: Forget it. You're just defending your merc blindly without looking at the situation from an unbiased standpoint. And mercs are powerful when played properly as well as improperly. There's a difference but there isn't much there between a well played merc and not. That's kinda my point.
Hehe, I feel your buddy. I run Marauder, and I completely agree. However, I find it extremely satisfying and rewarding to destroy a similarly geared and knowledgeable player of a different class because for me, particularly, it means I played my character right. If I don't, then I die. Really quickly and painfully...

The game is still young though, I have high hopes for BW. I love my Mara and the skill cap it has. It keeps me going.

TheJollyRogers's Avatar


TheJollyRogers
01.27.2012 , 01:36 PM | #10
A big problem with these forums is that people only notice the casted abilities. You see a lot of people say Sorcerers spam Force Lightening. They don't take into account an Inquisitor using Death Field, Shock, Chain Lightening, Crushing Darkness or Affliction because many of these are either instant cast or casted in scenarios that make them instant casts (wrath procs).

For Mercenaries/Commandos, it's similar. A lot of people notice Arsenal Tracer Missile cast because the spec requires you to stack 3 Tracer Missiles on the target for the heavy hitter abilities to deal significant damage. Heatseeker Missiles and Rail Shot are what cause the severe amount of damage that Mercenaries/Commandos do. Unload, with Barrage procs, can really bring the pain as well. When you get clumps, you utilize Explosive Dart + DfA + Fusion Missile.

A good Mercenary doesn't stop at his damage arsenal. He uses Electro-dart, Jet Boost, Energy Shield, Vent Heat, Stealth Scan, Power Surge, Thermal Sensor Override, Rocket Punch, Cure, Healing Scan + Rapid Healing Scan and Determination. Aside from the heals, these are all instant casts with short or non-existent animations.

In PvE, you will not be able to spam Tracer Missile because it overheats you immediately.

In PvP, good players will always decimate an Arsenal Mercenary for his reliance on getting those 3 tracer missiles to utilize the instant cast abilities. A lack of an interrupt hurts the Mercenary in competitive PvP.

Without a doubt in my mind, Pyrotech is a far better specialization for PvP as a Mercenary. You can see from Endeav's streams that, effortlessly, he destroys other Gunnery/Arsenal Commandos/Mercenaries. You can look for yourself the power of Assault/Pyrotech for Commandos/Mercenaries:

http://www.twitch.tv/endeav
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