I just want to say ive been playing gsf for ages and loved it , well until the OP'd ion cheater rail (which i and others endured for so long), and now the unblockable proton of instant death .... WTH are you doing ??? . Thanks to all the pilots , friends and foes ive played with over the years , but this is me done way to ruin it bioware !

I just want to say ive been playing gsf for ages and loved it , well until the OP'd ion cheater rail (which i and others endured for so long), and now the unblockable proton of instant death .... WTH are you doing ??? . Thanks to all the pilots , friends and foes ive played with over the years , but this is me done way to ruin it bioware !

 

Protons aren't unbreakable. The info-text is wrong.

but this is me done way to ruin it bioware !

Bye!

 

The rest of us will be enjoying that:

• all three Strike Fighters are now viable
  
• Missiles are now serious offensive weapons instead of annoyances
  
• Proton Torpedoes, which (again) are indeed breakable despite the patch notes mistake, are great
  
• Rapid Fire Lasers and Light Laser Cannon are now both viable choices
  
• Plasma Railgun is very much worth using
  
• EMP Field and EMP Missile both now deter Bomber stacking
  
• Every single ship in the game has seen some improvement
  
• There is a new map on the way
  

 

There has literally never been a better version of the game than the current one, and it is the perfect time for anyone new to join in and learn to play.

 

So yes!

Wow, 5.5

 

- Despon

honestly TBH you just need to watch some videos the king has a great channel for noobs beginners and noobies alike he loves to teach check it out https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCENeYrxIdEMVY4Q9oByko5g?view_as=subscriber

 

Krixarcs Kronies Skool

Edited October 14, 2017 by Dixarcs

umm not a noob and yeah unbreakable locks ...... JESUS

umm not a noob and yeah unbreakable locks ...... JESUS

 

Play a game ... when 6-12 are sf . with 1 shot kills , come tell me im wrong :p:p

umm not a noob and yeah unbreakable locks ...... JESUS

 

Noooooooooooooooooo Isalina, don't go! Take it from a fellow long-time JC GSFer: nuGSF is actually better than the GSF you're used to. Let me try to change your mind.

 

First: as mentioned above, protorps are indeed breakable. Their lock-time is brief, yes, but engine maneuvers which used to break the lock still do. Evasive flying & LoS are more important than ever. If the missile/torp locks are making you nuts, try a T1 scout, which can be outfitted with two and a half breaks (engine, EMP field, and distortion field).

 

Second: there's so much about the game which has been improved. We no longer have an entire (mostly) useless class of ship. Nearly every component is viable. T2 scout isn't the only ship with a whole bunch of viable builds. And - most important of all to you, I think - ion rail, the bane of your existence, has been nerfed. Not into oblivion, mind you, but it's now significantly harder to use, the effects have been reduced, and many ships received buffs that act as countermeasures against its crippling effects. How many times have I hit you with ion rail over the past few years? Well, now (depending on your ship choice) you are more likely to survive, and you'll find it easier to exact revenge upon me.

 

Third: server merges are coming. That means the queues will be popping more than ever, and matches are likely to be higher quality (assuming matchmaker works as designed).

 

Fourth: as Despon noted, new map in November!

 

In sum: nuGSF is a slightly different game than we're all used to. Not necessarily worse. I know a few people are unhappy with it, but by and large, most of us think it's vastly improved. Absorb the changes, maybe try flying a different ship, and give it a chance. Find me in game if you want some more specific thoughts/suggestions. Don't give up on GSF.

Play a game ... when 6-12 are sf . with 1 shot kills , come tell me im wrong :p:p

 

With DO Concussions and Protons are One-Shots. Heavy Lasers are feeling like shooting Tie-Fighters in good old X-Wing-Aliance. That's the reason, why DO is called DO.

Personally, I found the prevalence of lockout effects obnoxious to the point of killing fun for me. Outside of crits (and obv DO), a protorp won't 1-shot you, but since EMP field does damage straight to the hull, as well as stopping you from hitting you systems, and either your engine or shield, getting popped by an EMP (which I do not believe follows LoS rules) and having someone lock a protorp right after is pretty close to an unbreakable 1-shot. And if I'm not mistaken, getting hit with an EMP field followed by a protorp that crits IS a death sentence to both scouts and gunships (unless they're using reinforced armor...).

 

I'm not on board the "we needed more CC" train. I can agree that we needed more AoE to deter bomber stacking, but I don't really find it that much fun going through matches where I get locked out of swapping weapons, using shields, and using engines for a solid 50% of the match, especially if trying to defend a node.

 

There's a part of me that's very much with Isalina in this. The most annoying part of Ion Rail was never the AoE, but the feeling of helplessness from the drain and snare. Adding more snares in EMP and Remote Slicing that straight disable two of your 1-3 abilities isn't fun for me. And the ~20 matches or so that I played had me throwing my arms up in frustration and thinking, "Of course! Why should I be allowed to use my Engine right now?!" more often than I enjoyed.

 

Systems? Annoying, but OK. Shields? Again, annoying (and effectively nullifying the usefulness of directionals altogether), but whatever. But the engines? That's like adding an ability that stops you from using your stun break in ground PVP.

 

Personally, I feel that the new environment in general is far more oppressive to the person who, for whatever reason, chooses to solo-q.

 

I've already decided that I'm going to take a rather lengthy break, and play other games for a while. I'll likely log in for a few games once the new map hits, just because I want to see it. And if the meta seems more interesting to me at that time, I might stick around for a while. Time will tell, but for now, I'm not really planning on flying.

 

So with all that said, I must wonder... Are you going to dismiss my thoughts and concerns, and tell me "Bye" with a "good riddance" tone as well @Despon? Or perhaps tell me to L2P?

Edited October 14, 2017 by nyghtrunner

My 2¢:

 

First of all, torps are indeed breakable barring EMP or remote slicing. Scouts are one-shottable by them without any crits, but they can also use DF to delay the lock if their engines are disabled, or engines if their shields are disabled. If both are disabled, they're dead. That being said, I am not a fan of two aspects of the changes -- EMP field/Remote slicing (conceptually), and torpedoes being a 1-shot.

 

Torpedoes being a 1-shot I don't like because in general I don't like the concept of a 1-shot. It's too big of a threat, and it forces a specific build and playstyle. A scout can eat literally any other missile if required, but only torpedoes guarantee a death and thus force a scout to bail upon being locked on. It's not gamebreaking to me (in fact, I haven't gotten torped a whole lot at all as a scout) but it feels too influential. This is together with the shortened lock, but more importantly the shorter reload. Even a scout with PD can't escape more than a single torpedo now. Only EMP field T1 scouts can do that.

 

EMP field/Remote slicing are implemented poorly I feel, not because they're OP -- I don't think they are -- but because they have no counters and no warnings. EMP missile is similar to EMP field (less debuffs and shorter duration, but more damage and shorter cooldown) but it almost always give you a warning. The only time you won't get a warning is if someone in your team got hit by it (in which case they were warned) or if a mine/drone/turret were hit by it (in which case it sucks, but the other player had to put themselves at risk approaching a node/nest and float for 1.7 seconds to do that). EMP field can be applied from behind LoS, applies a systems and shield/engine lock, reduces accuracy by 20%, breaks missiles in the AoE (!!!) and to add insult to injury also deals 100 unavoidable hull damage. Remote slicing applies the same debuffs to abilities, reduces shields and drains 60 engine power, also from behind LoS if necessary.

 

Everything in GSF has a counter -- even torpedoes can be broken. But these abilities are counterless. The only way to counter an EMP scout/remote slicing ship is to either see them coming and maintain >5000m from them, or to EMP/slice them first. It's a degenerate playstyle I feel. It's not hard to do, it's impossible to counter, and it rewards low effort.

 

I don't feel remote slicing is OP -- in fact, I think it's only good for trolling value. I've yet to see it being effective in any even matches, the only times I've seen it work was in stacked teams. That aside, I think it should be changed to fit the rest of the game. No one should ever be completely helpless unless they made a mistake.

 

As a sidenote, I feel like EMP missiles deal too much damage. It's easy to spam them on nodes and AOE kill everything around while disabling them. If it's a control weapon, why is it dealing so much damage?

Edited October 14, 2017 by Greezt

I think its a much easier adjustment for those that flew strike fighters with quick charge shield, we're using to dodging fire without relying on evasion or big shield pools.

 

My slicing Imperium when I played as Floor Jansen would get lots of torpedo hits on players, just not it was a rare setup to see.

 

The EMP is perhaps a little overkill on the adjustment, but I'll take it over the previous version.

 

It was gunships and ion spam that actually enabled bomer stacking, without GS or Scout support I could pick off a bomber, pick of another, then start killing them on the way to the sat, steadily reducing their numbers. With ion spam, I can't get that energy, or be on the sat. Ion didn't solve the bomber problem, it actually made it worse in that the assaulting team wouldn't have energy.

Edited October 14, 2017 by ThrakhathSpawn

Isa I tried to explain this to you over the past week but you've been somewhat reluctant to listen.

 

Missiles are not unbreakable, distortion field only breaks the lock now - once the missile has been fired at you, only your engine ability will break it.

 

And once the servers merge queue pops should go through the roof - current estimates say "Star Forge" will be larger than Harbinger currently is. Besides a bunch of your friends are coming back to the game because of these new changes and the upcoming merge + new map.

Edited October 14, 2017 by FlavivsAetivs

I'm not on board the "we needed more CC" train. I can agree that we needed more AoE to deter bomber stacking, but I don't really find it that much fun going through matches where I get locked out of swapping weapons, using shields, and using engines for a solid 50% of the match, especially if trying to defend a node.

 

There's a part of me that's very much with Isalina in this. The most annoying part of Ion Rail was never the AoE, but the feeling of helplessness from the drain and snare. Adding more snares in EMP and Remote Slicing that straight disable two of your 1-3 abilities isn't fun for me. And the ~20 matches or so that I played had me throwing my arms up in frustration and thinking, "Of course! Why should I be allowed to use my Engine right now?!" more often than I enjoyed.

 

Systems? Annoying, but OK. Shields? Again, annoying (and effectively nullifying the usefulness of directionals altogether), but whatever. But the engines? That's like adding an ability that stops you from using your stun break in ground PVP.

 

It should be noted that the lockouts were on those components before 5.5. Also that for EMP Field and EMP missile that while they can be used more times per minute, their overall uptime of lockouts has been conserved by shortening the duration, which actually makes it a bit weaker as an aid to landing missiles (though missiles need much less aid to land now). In terms of lockdown, RS, which used to be generally regarded as totally uncompetitive, is the only one that got a buff. The rest of the buffs were just geared at QoL in terms of increasing the probability that one could use the anti-bomber stacking properties of these tools without suiciding to the mines in the process.

 

You're not seeing them because of new CC (it was already there) or stronger CC (strength was conserved), you're seeing them because they now perform their utility functions well enough that people want to take them. The damage to player ships could maybe be nerfed, because while it's a nice bonus for the user, I don't think anyone is actually taking these abilities for the damage done.

 

There's also a real tradeoff for taking these things. Remote Slicing is very much a trolling component, and it's quite the warty little troll, but it doesn't hurt and kill the way a true offensive component does. Likewise, the EMP components are sacrificing significant potential damage output for the sake of utility effects that are best taken advantage of by someone else on the team.

 

There are more good utility ships now. It used to be that you'd want a few beacon bombers in DOM, a few dronecarriers in TDM, and a tensor scout or two for the first few seconds of DOM. Every other ship was better off being the very solo-carry friendly T2 Scout, T1 gunship, or T3 gunship. That's basically a pool of 5 of 12 ships, with 2 utilities and 3 solo carries and a meta that heavily favored skewing team balance toward the solo carries.

 

Now we have a pool of 11 of twelve ships, with 5 solo carries (T1F, T1G, T2G, T3G, T2S), 3 utility ships (T3S, Minelayer, Dronecarrier), and 3 that can be built for either (T1S, T2F, T3F). Solo carry ships are no longer the majority of viable builds, so it's not surprising to see a lot more utility builds throwing around utility effects in matches.

 

The utility builds do retain their classic weakness though. They dish out less damage and are less efficient at killing, so if there is more utility on a team than that team needs, then the team's performance starts to fall off. This has always been there as well in the solo queue. In a Dom if no one picks a tensor scout to start, that hurts the team, but if 7 people pick tensor scouts that also hurts the team. All that's changed is that optimal ship selection for the solo queuer is now complicated by a great expansion in the number of choices available. As a result communication in the ops chat at the start of a match is now more valuable than it used to be.

 

At the high skill organized level, what I've seen so far is that 1 or 2 EMP ships are as much as you want unless the other team is taking a nearly all bombers approach, in which case you might want one more EMP ship.

 

In the solo queue, the same balance principles still apply, it's just that people aren't that great at taking advantage of them. If you're being drowned in controls, it's because the other team threw away a lot of damage potential that could have done them more good.

 

There is also an element of L2P for everyone. Or more accurately, Re-L2P. A lot has changed, and if one doesn't adapt to the change that's a disadvantage playing against people that are adapting.

 

There's also might be some "shiny new toy" syndrome going on. I've seen some pretty stupid team comps recently that probably had more to do with people wanting to try out builds that never worked before than with the notion that having 6 sources of EMP on a team is in any way a good idea.

 

I hope you stick around. With bomber ball and gunship wall dislodgement now being practical, it's actually more useful than ever to have a really good solo-carry pilot in one of the classic solo carry ships on the team. Someone needs to swoop in for the kill after the utilities have been utilized after all.

Isa,

 

Don't worry too much about the missiles and torpedoes which are now more common these days then railguns. Off course, everyone wants to try out strikes.

 

And you should too, I am sure with your bomber & scout experience you can fly a strike very well too. Fun matches do happen. Eudo and I had 2 of them yesterday.

I am very happy. There's so much to experiment with on almost every ship. I'm on Pike and Sledghammer, they're really good ships now, I didn't even have them in the hangar before. It's almost like the beginning, only better. I couldn't even fly straight ahead at that time.

Yeah, I liked the Pike before due to it's two missiles. That it got buffed now is like playing a merc heal in pvp and getting it buffed like it got with the launch of 5.0. It feels a bit op, but let's see what happens in the next weeks, when players are finished testing the new stuff.

I just wish GSF would pop on Progenitor....

Well , tried all the tricks i know ... when you are facing 6-8 SF per game in constant lock with a GS or 2 adding ion spam to engines , it's a "curb stomp" (yes i had help with that phrase) . idk if you are playing matches but it's shocking , groups of SF's roll in and you are in constant lock even to 12km (i was taking notice of distance), last match vs imps was 50-3 , i class my self as a "moderate" pilot with the 2 pub kills (sorry to drag you in Rose ,but she got the other 1 ) , 3 kills 2 good pilots. And tyvm Trae , Tobias and Eudo for the kind words but again it's a "curb stomp" and i dont want to pay money for this anymore, or ride it out for another 12 months like the ion cheater gun. When i started in 2013 this game was fun and honourable, now its just crushing defeats , 3 caps and anything goes with more cheater guns and less skill ...not what i signed up for.

When i started in 2013 this game was fun and honourable, now its just crushing defeats , 3 caps and anything goes with more cheater guns and less skill ...not what i signed up for.

 

That is simply player mentality, the same one that made GSF pops dry out in the first place. I'm sure the components are pretty well balanced, but because I am constantly on teams of noobs against premades there is no way I could even judge that fairly because I am constantly focus fired right out of respawn with no one to peel for me. The only thing that would fix that, would be to have a ranking system in place so inexperienced players didn't get matched against veterans.

Well , tried all the tricks i know ... when you are facing 6-8 SF per game in constant lock with a GS or 2 adding ion spam to engines , it's a "curb stomp" (yes i had help with that phrase) . idk if you are playing matches but it's shocking , groups of SF's roll in and you are in constant lock even to 12km (i was taking notice of distance), last match vs imps was 50-3 , i class my self as a "moderate" pilot with the 2 pub kills (sorry to drag you in Rose ,but she got the other 1 ) , 3 kills 2 good pilots. And tyvm Trae , Tobias and Eudo for the kind words but again it's a "curb stomp" and i dont want to pay money for this anymore, or ride it out for another 12 months like the ion cheater gun. When i started in 2013 this game was fun and honourable, now its just crushing defeats , 3 caps and anything goes with more cheater guns and less skill ...not what i signed up for.

 

I'm pretty sure I know the game you're talking about here Isalina. That game was just a feeding frenzy and we were just messing around firing Torps all game.

 

Here's the video of it from my point view. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/200380082

 

 

There's plenty here to go over but it's pretty obvious your team is just completely outmatched, it didn't really have much to do with what ships or components anyone was using.

 

If you do decide to keep playing I'd be happy to explain tactics on how to avoid getting protoned even when solo queueing. If you look at the beginning of my stream yesterday I plenty many games while Solo ing, which might help you. I'd also be willing to go through the video I just linked with you or if you have the ability to record go through those with you.

 

Anyways if you do decide to leave I'm sorry to hear that but I really do believe this is the best GSF has ever been.

Protorps are supposed to be painful.

 

Remote slicing is especially punishing:

Your only way to block it is to stay out of range, pretty much meaning gunships.

Engine ability gone

Engines suddenly don't have power, so LoSing out of trouble is out

Systems ability gone. You brought booster recharge to deal with power drain? EMP field? 100% useless.

And suppression, which you might have used to deal with one angry scout, is 100% useless against missiles.

 

If you're the only thing in the match worth shooting at, a slicing/protorp build can make you totally useless on its own.

 

There are a few counters I've found:

 

1: Ion rail and a lot of situational awareness. The ships which can slice don't RNG out of hits particularly well. Tab like a maniac and you're hard to sneak up on. If they know what you're doing, they can use cover to get close to you, so you pretty much have to retreat, or you have to have a teammate they haven't seen yet. Also they can powerdive after you tag them, so following that up with slug isn't going to help.

 

2: Cover cover cover cover cover. Lots and lots of cover. If you're near cover, you have a chance to get behind it before missiles start flying. Sometimes.

 

3: Well-placed interdiction sentry drones, dropped before the slice.

 

4: Slice/EMP them first.

 

And, 5: build with reinforced armor/hydro spanner to tank the hit and repair afterward, because bomber spam and the repair drones that go with it are mostly out of fashion these days.

I think the point isn't so much about how to avoid getting protorped. I think the problem, like before... is more about teams that use specific builds and ships to build a "perfect" team and even coordinate through voicechat, the premades if you want to call it that, then anything else.

And from what I have seen during matches around this time, and drako's video is that some people just don't care about crushing the opposition and use remote slicing (which they shouldn't have used in that match), or in case of the matches I was in, where they didn't care about 3-capping and I made my disagreement by just typing: ............... (while I was on the winning team).

The result.. yep, people maybe leaving the game, or at least kill the queue.

About the time you'd posted that, I had a game where the pub team's stats were 7/0/0/0/0/0/0 kills and zero objectives. One of them recognized the group on the enemy team and didn't spawn in at all (I think). I think two more had stopped spawning after minute two because the match was just that frustrating. I used to see this all the time when I flew groups: they'd recognize us and not bother trying to win because they knew they wouldn't: they'd just take their hands off the controls and resign themselves to the inevitable.

 

So... yeah, the tactic works if you've only got one guy in a Clarion trying to protorp you that way and your team can keep the rest of them busy enough to not focus you. If they're so frustrated that they quit spawning, it's not a tactics problem.

There is only one way to achieve competitive balance in GSF as it exists right now, and that is for players who do not know what they are doing to make the effort to learn and take the time to practice their skills.

 

some people just don't care about crushing the opposition

Don't expect players who do know what they are doing to hold back or otherwise hobble themselves to accommodate players who do not know what they are doing, particularly when in many cases both sides are filled with people that are clueless or don't care.

 

This game is not so complex or the knowledge so hidden that people cannot succeed at it through learning. There is no significant gear grind. There are no artificial barriers to competing that cannot be overcome through knowledge and practice. Not every player will be a top 'ace,' but anyone can be competent or better and anyone can help rather than hurt their team through applying basic tactical awareness. You don't even have to have great aim anymore to do something positive offensively.

 

The result.. yep, people maybe leaving the game, or at least kill the queue.

Until the game is structured with some sort of separation of players by ability level, the only thing that will prevent blowouts is if the people being blown out commit to improving... and in a lot of cases, giant strides can be made by someone who is putting up a line like 0 2 10, 7k damage just by practicing very basic skills.

 

Do not seek to lower the ceiling... look to raise up the floor.

 

- Despon

There is only one way to achieve competitive balance in GSF as it exists right now, and that is for players who do not know what they are doing to make the effort to learn and take the time to practice their skills.

 

 

Don't expect players who do know what they are doing to hold back or otherwise hobble themselves to accommodate players who do not know what they are doing, particularly when in many cases both sides are filled with people that are clueless or don't care.

 

This game is not so complex or the knowledge so hidden that people cannot succeed at it through learning. There is no significant gear grind. There are no artificial barriers to competing that cannot be overcome through knowledge and practice. Not every player will be a top 'ace,' but anyone can be competent or better and anyone can help rather than hurt their team through applying basic tactical awareness. You don't even have to have great aim anymore to do something positive offensively.

The significant gear grind might have served a purpose, though. It was drawn out for so long, that, as you played, you got a tangible improvement to your ship (upgrades) as you were getting tangible improvements to your player-skill level.

 

Until the game is structured with some sort of separation of players by ability level, the only thing that will prevent blowouts is if the people being blown out commit to improving... and in a lot of cases, giant strides can be made by someone who is putting up a line like 0 2 10, 7k damage just by practicing very basic skills.

 

Do not seek to lower the ceiling... look to raise up the floor.

 

- Despon

 

Raising up the floor has been the natural progression of PvP games for a very, very long time. If the floor is high enough to keep Drak's group from roflstomping every pug it comes across 50/5 or 1000/100, it's going to be much, much less inviting for anyone else new, because they'll have that much harder of a time getting That First Kill.