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A.P.T. for PvP (Anti Smash J.O.A.T.)


MyDominion

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As a newer ish Powertech,(made this guy for 1.6) I hav'nt been through the changes over the last year. The carolina parakeet build I have only read about and I even missed 'iron fist.' I have been doing alot of reading/research from experienced PT's and have been experimenting with different builds/concepts.

 

It seems the most popular build is a 4/6/31 Pyrotech build that focuses on Maximizing your burst DPS and is built around railshot. I have had fun with this build, but have found that the lack of defensive cooldowns/talents makes the build a bit of a glass cannon build. (If you run with guard on you and a healer it is very nice for burning down targets).

 

For those of us that don't have the luxury of guard or a consistent healer, I felt like I was missing something with a Pyrotech build (especially playing on a server where it is common to fight against pre mades in none ranked alot). So I sought out to try to find a build that would be a jack of all trades, good survivability, utility, dps.

 

I'm not claiming to be the first or that this is anything special, I just want to share my thoughts on a build that I've recently started working on and is getting results for me. (still working out kinks and refining alot)

 

It's a 10/31/0 Advanced prototype build that utilizes ion gas cylinder. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GoMMZMsrrobfkds.2 I'll write down the reasons why I like it and what it's about, and hopefully people can critique give thoughts so that I can improve it and to stimulate discussion.

 

I'll start with gear. I run a heavy power gear build, I've replaced 4 of my armor pieces with min/maxed power mod/enhancement. Every piece I use has power on it aside from my belt which has 39 crit. I use overkill 22 blue mods (+10 end +16 power). I took the mods out of the War Hero none shield generator (has power/surge) and put them into a shield generator. (all parts aside from shells from WH gear)

 

The concept is this.. I enjoy having more of a purpose than just throwing out DPS. I like the idea of more utility and being able to use guard on the fly as well as the tankiness of APT. The highlights of the build are this...

 

+60% armor (from ion gas cylinder) gives 51.78% (with my current gear) damage reduction against energy/kinetic

7% dmg reduction at all times- 5% from ion gas and 2% from power armor in APT tree.

37% dmg reduction from AOE (5% gas 2% power armor and 30% from stabalized armor)

Don't like smash or force sweep see above ^^^^^

37-67% dmg reduction when stunned and AOE'd (The ability says 'in addition' So not sure if the damage reduction stacks, someone can answer this for me)

20% change for shield for 20% dmg reduction

5%dmg reduction from combust

Ability to use Guard (priceless in preserving healers/tanks/dps in a variety of situations)

Reduction on grapple cooldown 10 seconds (Great for huttball for pulls to firetraps/saves. How many times are seconds left on the cooldown when you need it most, also for peels on healers)

Interupt reduced to 6 seconds (hitman APT)

Hydraulic over rides (from APT tree) 30 second cooldown for 8 seconds immunity from CC and 30% speed buff. (Amazing for Hutball and any engagement and super low cooldown (healers can't keep you off them)

Snares From both prototype flamer thrower, hamstring, and ion gas proc (healers can't keep you off them)

(Also the 70% snare works great when 2 or more are bunched in combination with another death from above or smash.)

Your damage is still solid, it's not as bursty as pyro..but you still will hit steadily. You have quite a few damage options, so the rotation keeps you busy and there are multiple procs within the APT tree to guarantee crit or reduce ability heat to 0)

Most abilities are internal/elemental dmg which bypass armor rating.

 

This post is long enough, there are other nice things as well. But these are some highlights. You get a solid mix of quite a few different abilities, high survivability, good dps, great utility (especially using guard and your two taunts). Let me know what you think.

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Wouldn't it be cool if specs like the one above were actually viable?

 

It's a shame that it's not. Here's why:

 

-you'll overheat very fast.

-the shield mechanic is crappy, only mitigating a little bit of damage from two out of the 4 damage types.

-it's not pyro

 

AP, even though it looks more survivable on paper, is really not much better than pyro due to a lack of energy rebounder. I find that I actually end up having less deaths as full pyro because I can kill opponents faster than with AP. AP, in all its forms, is gimped. Shieldtech is gimped. We have one spec and that's full, 31 point pyro.

 

I've dueled our guild healers with every spec under the sun. These are superb healers, and are among the server's best. There is only one spec that is head and tails above the others for bringing spikey, unhealable burst to bear on a single target: 31 point pyro. Anything less is a sub-par "fun" spec (though some pyro "hybrids" crank out high final numbers, they still can't come close to producing the spike that a well timed TD/RS combo can and are regarded by the healers I run with as easily-healed-through specs). Nothin' wrong with fun, but don't kid yourself into thinking your not gimped in comparison.

 

It's not a good thing that we have one viable spec, as I've been saying for months, but that's the state of powertechs right now. I don't see it changing any time soon unfortunately.

Edited by FeralPug
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Have you played this spec for at least a week? The problem that this spec has is heat. Going all the way up the AP tree requires you to pick HEGC to be able to have sustained dps and utilize those talents effectively, without it you'll just overheat or lose dps. I mean, you spent points on damaging skills of AP such as PFT, FB, auto crit of RS, and Immolate, but you won't be able to utilize it to its highest potential because of IGC. I would prefer a higher shieldtech skill base while picking up power armor from AP tree or go all the way up ST if you want to play defensive. Also, you can just use the standard AP spec, which has really good sustained dps that's a little bit behind pyro with good mitigation.
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The concept is this.. I enjoy having more of a purpose than just throwing out DPS. I like the idea of more utility and being able to use guard on the fly as well as the tankiness of APT. The highlights of the build are this...

 

It's a fun build and it does pack in the utility. All the positives you listed are great. The only negatives I really found with it are that:

 

1. Without Shield Vents in the Shield Tech tree, running Ion Gas Cylinder will overheat you quickly if you are trying to help focus anything down.

 

2. By not running in High Energy Gas Cylinder or being able to pick up Iron Fist, all of your high damage moves, such as Immolate, Rocket Punch and Flame Burst will not be hitting as hard.

 

All in all though it is alot of fun and you feel like you can do a bit of everything. Good luck with it. :)

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Wouldn't it be cool if specs like the one above were actually viable?

 

It's a shame that it's not. Here's why:

 

-you'll overheat very fast.

-the shield mechanic is crappy, only mitigating a little bit of damage from two out of the 4 damage types.

-it's not pyro

 

AP, even though it looks more survivable on paper, is really not much better than pyro due to a lack of energy rebounder. I find that I actually end up having less deaths as full pyro because I can kill opponents faster than with AP. AP, in all its forms, is gimped. Shieldtech is gimped. We have one spec and that's full, 31 point pyro.

 

I've dueled our guild healers with every spec under the sun. These are superb healers, and are among the server's best. There is only one spec that is head and tails above the others for bringing spikey, unhealable burst to bear on a single target: 31 point pyro. Anything less is a sub-par "fun" spec (though some pyro "hybrids" crank out high final numbers, they still can't come close to producing the spike that a well timed TD/RS combo can and are regarded by the healers I run with as easily-healed-through specs). Nothin' wrong with fun, but don't kid yourself into thinking your not gimped in comparison.

 

It's not a good thing that we have one viable spec, as I've been saying for months, but that's the state of powertechs right now. I don't see it changing any time soon unfortunately.

 

-I rotate rapid shots to keep heat from rising too fast (just like pyro utilizes rapid shots, but a bit more so)

-I can't argue the shield mechanice is'nt good, but it still functions and provides dmg mitigation

-Pyro is great, if you all you want to do is burst and high dps. The spec offers nothing else.

 

I disagree about survivability, espeically in the climate of smash/force sweep...and in an overall sense. I've noticed a leap in survivability and damage mitigation. Your build you take 100% (minus your personal mitigation vs. smash/force sweep). This build you take 37% less dmg from it. It's just numbers. I do miss energy rebounder, but I appreciate the full time boost to dmg mitigation from this build.

 

Your abo****ely right, this build will not burn down healers. But that's not what it is designed for, this build is for PT's that want higher survivability sustained damage and utility. Also those frustrated with being CC'd constantly by pre mades that know how to utilize their CC perfectly. Hydraulic over rides are a great counter to that.

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Have you played this spec for at least a week? The problem that this spec has is heat. Going all the way up the AP tree requires you to pick HEGC to be able to have sustained dps and utilize those talents effectively, without it you'll just overheat or lose dps. I mean, you spent points on damaging skills of AP such as PFT, FB, auto crit of RS, and Immolate, but you won't be able to utilize it to its highest potential because of IGC. I would prefer a higher shieldtech skill base while picking up power armor from AP tree or go all the way up ST if you want to play defensive. Also, you can just use the standard AP spec, which has really good sustained dps that's a little bit behind pyro with good mitigation.

 

Heat can definately be an issue, especially if you are playing against a team that has 2+ healers. This was written for none ranked players (I understand in ranked you will be beating on someone for considerably longer due to the coordination/ammount of healers/use of CC by skilled teams) . So for ranked you would have to utlize rapid shots more, and be on a team that could use another guard. TBH not sure if this build has a place in a ranked team, it's something I hav'nt done yet.

 

The concept is built around IGC so their are cons to this, just like every build has them. The idea is to be the Jack of all trades, you basically have your hand in everything the class offers with this build. The only thing of any interest for me from ST tree is Jet charge the rest of what the tree offers seems mostly useless in PvP or minimal in tanking increase. I feel stabalized armor is the tankiest thing offered in any tree.

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It's a fun build and it does pack in the utility. All the positives you listed are great. The only negatives I really found with it are that:

 

1. Without Shield Vents in the Shield Tech tree, running Ion Gas Cylinder will overheat you quickly if you are trying to help focus anything down.

 

2. By not running in High Energy Gas Cylinder or being able to pick up Iron Fist, all of your high damage moves, such as Immolate, Rocket Punch and Flame Burst will not be hitting as hard.

 

All in all though it is alot of fun and you feel like you can do a bit of everything. Good luck with it. :)

 

1. Heat can be an issue, I offset it by using rapid shots (with massive power is'nt as weak as someone might think)

 

2. True I would have the boost of internal/elemental and I go back and forth about the 8% increase to rocket punch, as I said this is very new and not fully fleshed out.

 

And thanks, I have been having alot of fun with it and feel I offer more to my team. And one of my favorite things is I got stunned and had a double leap/forcesweep and my health did'nt move nearly as much lol. I can't understate this enough the way the game is now and how often smash is encountered, stabalized armor is just amazing.

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I hav'nt emphasized enough the ability to utilize guard. It is an amazing ability that is underused by PT due to everyone being pyro. Scenario (w/o CC or full resolve bars): DPS is beating on a teamate, if your pyro you taunt(nerf dmg by 30%) start a burst rotation in hopes to burn the dps before he kills your teamate, if he has defensive cool downs teamate up team likely will go down and you will probably finish him off. Your left standing teamate has to rez.

 

With this build you open with guard (50% mitigation on teamate, transferred to you) Then taunt (now teamate has 80% mitigation) you don't recieve full 50% due to taunt. Your able to land 3-4k crits, dps goes down you and teamate still alive.

 

I should have added another name in the title. Anti-smash jack of all trades guard build lol

 

Thanks for the input guys, I'm still working this out.

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I've been running something similar for the last few days. I switch between ion cylinder and high energy cylinder depending on the situation (never mid-fight though). Ion cylinder is for when an objective needs to be held, or a team-mate guarded. High energy is for when we need more damage.

 

I love the versatility. And it is decent against the now standard swarm of smash monkeys. The AoE damage reduction helps, and prototype flame thrower helps bring them down.

 

Last night I was over 400k damage and 200k protection a few times.

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Wouldn't it be cool if specs like the one above were actually viable?

 

It's a shame that it's not. Here's why:

 

-you'll overheat very fast.

-the shield mechanic is crappy, only mitigating a little bit of damage from two out of the 4 damage types.

-it's not pyro

 

AP, even though it looks more survivable on paper, is really not much better than pyro due to a lack of energy rebounder. I find that I actually end up having less deaths as full pyro because I can kill opponents faster than with AP. AP, in all its forms, is gimped. Shieldtech is gimped. We have one spec and that's full, 31 point pyro.

 

I've dueled our guild healers with every spec under the sun. These are superb healers, and are among the server's best. There is only one spec that is head and tails above the others for bringing spikey, unhealable burst to bear on a single target: 31 point pyro. Anything less is a sub-par "fun" spec

 

It's not a good thing that we have one viable spec, as I've been saying for months, but that's the state of powertechs right now. I don't see it changing any time soon unfortunately.

 

I had to quote the first response because I think it's pretty bang on. Although I do think you get a bit of decent benefit out of shielding... but that's another debate.

 

HEAT is a factor in this build. If it isn't, it's because you have too much 'filler' in your rotation. Which equates to lethargic damage.

 

Whether we like it or not, we are a one spec PVP class. Bioware did this... Time to Death is far too short, burst is king. Do I like it? Nope. But it's been crammed down our throat since the change to Expertise.

 

For the record I just came off an evening of playing Advanced Prototype before seeing this post. I love it, it's fun as heck but Sooooo flaky. There are tons of Shadows/Assassins on my server that know as soon as the little arm flamey thingy pops out they just bump me, and there goes about 80% of my DPS for the next several seconds.

 

Now you're taking a very second rate DPS spec, and making it third rate by changing the cylinder out for a tank cylinder. At best this is for rolling pugs in non-ranked.

 

Again the quote above is right about our survivability....we really don't have much, the big difference between us and a Mercenary? Our survivability is simply bolstered by our ability to burst down our opponent before they do it to us. This spec removes that. (The thought of out surviving someone in this spec is hard for me to take in today's game.)

 

I'm glad you're trying this out... really I am. It shows BW we need something else.... I'm not asking to be like a Shadow with 27.8 hybrid builds but having more than one would be awesome.

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I had to quote the first response because I think it's pretty bang on. Although I do think you get a bit of decent benefit out of shielding... but that's another debate.

 

.

 

Oh, I agree with you, but the real advantage in shielding only comes with the shielding buffs in the shieldtech tree. With shield chance and absorb increased, a fully geared shieldtech can be a bear. It's still the weakest tank spec for PVP in the game, and no rated team worth it's salt runs one that I know of.

 

Just an interesting aside:

 

I ran a parser on my AP build yesterday (pure dps AP with HECG). I did 72k damage in 30 seconds. My pyro build does 75k in 30 secs. On paper these builds seem very close to each other in terms of output. I can see why a developer who is looking at numbers might assume that these specs are comparable.

 

Of course, as we all know, they are not comparable in an actual warzone due to many factors including the fact that the centerpiece damage dealer in AP is a channeled cone subject to latency, and to stuns.

 

As for survivability while running AP with ion, it appears more survivable on paper. In a real WZ against skilled players where focus is the name of the game, you might last half a second longer than a pyro, but you trade an absolute truckload of damage for this half second. AP is also subpar in other aspects of PVP. If you need a fire puller, a tankassin is better because they can pull out of stealth. If you need a ball runner, again AP loses to tankassin, immortal juggy and even to full shieldtech tank. You can't really guard against good focus because you don't have the shieldtech talents to absorb damage. In short, AP (regardless of cylinder) is gimped all the way around in survivability, damage and utility, compared to other classes.

 

Pyrotech is the only true PVP spec we have. Our one saving grace is that pyro is one of the most potent PVP specs currently in the game: no one can touch our spikey damage. This is probably why PT's don't get much sympathy in terms of having only one viable spec for PVP. Folks shrug and tell us to just suck it up and play the OP burst spec we've been blessed with since launch.

 

But that don't make it right!

 

In my view, an interesting approach to rebalancing would be to make AP an anti-stealth spec. I'd make immolate the centerpiece instead of flamethrower, and put in some stealth detection abilities. What about a "tripwire" tech ability that would allow an AP to set up a multiple point stealth detection perimeter? This would allow AP to be useful from a competitive perspective, without upping the damage too much. It would also provide a much needed counter to tankassin hybrids, who currently enjoy absolute dominance in terms of node capping/guarding from stealth. Currently, a rated team can't function without a talented tankassin. I don't think teams who can't field one should be punished, and there desperately needs to be a counter.

 

Just thoughts from someone who loves the playstyle of AP, and also is completely and utterly frustrated ever time I play it :)

Edited by FeralPug
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Just thoughts from someone who loves the playstyle of AP, and also is completely and utterly frustrated ever time I play it :)

 

So true. I enjoy playing AP the majority of times I play it for a change of pace or will switch to it from pyro if the situation calls for it (i.e. I'm pugging a huttball and I see our team has plenty of snipers, mercs, operatives, or any of lackluster carriers who aren't gonna get the job done).

 

The flamethrower thing drives me absolutely crazy. A spec that should be more mobile than pyro (with the passive cylinder speed boost, and hydraulic overrides) has to sit there and channel an ability that is subject to direction, position, and to internet latency (causing it to have those times of doing half the ticks it should or nothing at all).

 

Additionally, bubble stun has complete dominance over this spec at the moment.

Edited by Evuo
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Additionally, bubble stun has complete dominance over this spec at the moment.

 

A lot of rubbish has been said in this topic, but this is absolutely true. None of my characters suffer so much from bubble stun as my AP powertech.

 

As for viability, I'm playing a 7/31/3 spec, using Combustible Gas Cilinder, which with the guaranteed proc from flameburst makes the spec significantly more bursty than normal AP, at the cost of overheating faster.

 

The spec does viable DPS & burst. I can put pressure on war hero geared healers, and can kill those that have not fully min/maxed their gear or are not so good, on my own. The best healers on my server I cannot solo, I will overheat.

Pyrotech generally does better vs healers and ranged classes, with AP doing better vs melee classes. Unsupported Pyrotechs struggle with rage juggernauts and marauders, AP eats smashers for breakfast. Good assassins are of course still a no-go, but at least you can get away as AP due to Hydraulic Overrides.

 

Hydraulic Overrides is fantastic. It adds significant survivability and mainly offensive power due to having a significant uptime of unhindered mobility.

 

As for prototype flamethrower. Every disadvantage said in this topic is correct, and personally I feel even after the buffs the damage is still not good enough for such an unreliable ability. However it provides some interesting utility, many are the times where I have slowed 5 players to a crawl in voidstar allowing my team to plant a bomb. It is also a decent kiting tool vs melee. The damage it does is good, and I've had situations where all ticks critted and I'd do like 9k damage in 3 seconds time + the instant 2.5k damage from immolate that follows.

It takes practice to use flamethrower correctly, after 6 months of playing AP in PvP my succesrate on flamethrower is much higher than when I first tried the spec.

 

For ranked I would advice Pyrotech, as when well supported the burst of that spec is king. I have played AP in ranked matches and did good, doing top damage and killingblows of both teams, but perhaps I'd have done even better as pyro, its hard to say for sure. For pugs in normal warzones I'd recommend AP. It's fun, and is a bit more self-reliable. Also, the retractable blade animation is fantastic ;)

 

1 tip: Do not use a shield generator. Since most of AP's attacks are tech-based, you loose too much damage by dropping your power generator. A shield equals only about 2% damage reduction, the dps loss is much more, perhaps as high as 5-7%. Juggernaut hybrids can get away with using a shield since most of their main attacks are weapon based and thus not so much affected by the huge drop in +force power from dropping their generator (only their force scream, choke and smash are affected). Powertechs unfortunately not so much.

Edited by LordExozone
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  • 2 weeks later...

Bubbles stuns are 4m ranged, almost all you spells are 10m so if you practice well you placement you can pretty much dodged all of them.

 

I play this spec from a while now in ranked play, and i have no trouble. I am on the top dps at each game while having a lot of prot with the guard (and healers loves me). The heat is kinda hard to manage when your new to the spec, but become more comfortable with the time and experience.

Still do less burst and monotarget damage than pyro, but i last longer and help more my team than i did as a pyro.

 

Forgot to mention that this spec is A LOT MORE usefull in Huttball, with lower CD on grab, OP godmode, the extra tankiness and mobility and the guard.

Edited by Nanarchist
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Bubbles stuns are 4m ranged, almost all you spells are 10m so if you practice well you placement you can pretty much dodged all of them.

 

 

Right up to the point where you use your stacked prototype flamethrower, are forced to stand still, and the target or one of his bubbled friends gets in the AOE cone <4 meters. Happens extremely often with AP and its so annoying.

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My understanding is that Bioware plans on taking away the stun from bubbles when cast on others so only the caster is one to worry about. Any confirmation on this at this point?

 

I'm sure we'll get confirmation around the same time we get more class story content.

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