So when people say to get your Crit rating to 30% and Surge to 75% do they mean Ranged or Tech?

I'm assuming you're talking about PVE builds with these numbers.

You want to look at your Ranged table. Tech Crit Chance will always be a little higher than Ranged crit chance for PT's because of the synergies we get for Tech ability/Flame effect crit.

Well actually I was looking for some direction in pvp. When I look at my character sheet and the Ranged tab, what should my accuracy, crit rating, and surge be?

For a 4/6/31 build, your Ranged stats should look like this:

Accuracy 90%

Critical Chance ~23% (buffed with Coordination)

Critical Multiplier ~79%

The idea is, with the +15% Chance to Crit Rail Shot bonus from the Eliminator PVP set, you get a 38% (23+15) to crit. The additional synergies in the spec also boosts your Tech Crit Chance to over 30%. So FB, IM and CGC all have ~36% chance to Crit, with TD, ED and RP having ~30% chance to Crit.

That's why you stack Power and Surge, with no Crit or Acc. You should be using the +40 Power mods (WH Agile Mod 27), and the +42 Power/+54 Surge enhancements (WH Adept Enhancement 27) for EVERY PIECE OF GEAR.

Wow, thanks for the help! I appreciate it!

No problem. I have a video guide for the 4/6/31 spec on my Youtube channel. It's the featured video, so just click the link in my signature, it puts it right up in your face.

This isn't shameless advertising, per se, but there's just so much info on this spec that I wouldn't be able to relate in a thread without typing a novel. lol

No problem. I have a video guide for the 4/6/31 spec on my Youtube channel. It's the featured video, so just click the link in my signature, it puts it right up in your face.

 

This isn't shameless advertising, per se, but there's just so much info on this spec that I wouldn't be able to relate in a thread without typing a novel. lol

Good work.

I haven't played my pyro for months and was snooping around the pt forums today.

I might have to dust it off. I liked the blaster you had in yer vid. Which one are you using?

Good work.

 

I haven't played my pyro for months and was snooping around the pt forums today.

I might have to dust it off. I liked the blaster you had in yer vid. Which one are you using?

It's the Black Nebula Heavy Blaster. It's an item from the Crime Lord Pack. It should go for really cheap now.

Malkiv quit telling people my secrets XD

O'zara

Malkiv quit telling people my secrets XD

 

O'zara

[hijack thread] Damn, hey, Oz!! You been playing lately? [/hijack thread]

For everyone else - O'zara is the guy that set me straight on Pyro when I made the change from AP in early Summer of '12. Taught me pretty much everything I know about spec, gear and ability usage.

Ok enough of ths full power crap. Ive had enough of seeing people try to teach others how to ruin their powertechs.

30 - 31% crit chance including buff should be standard for pvp. Why? Because your thermal detonator, flame burst, explosive dart and dots hit for nothing without crits...period.

96 - 97% accuracy. Take some enhancements with power/accuracy and accuracy on implants for this. Why? If your railshot misses, your burst is completely nulified.

75-77% surge is fine, stacking it is just giving you horrible diminishing returns so take those accuracy and power enhancements once you hit around 75 surge.

Take steely resolve to at least 2 points and take full aim augments. Why? This increase your bonus damage and gives you crit so the middle skill buffs are worthless.

Im a ranked pvper. Take my advice if you want, your choice.

Seriously, full power is a joke. Just sayin'

Im a ranked pvper. Take my advice if you want, your choice.

 

Seriously, full power is a joke. Just sayin'

I'm a ranked PVP'er, too. Got any videos of you putting up your numbers in ranked or even regulars? I'd be interested in seeing how much better you are at this than a Max Power build.

I used your recommendations for gearing and spec to compile an Askmrrobot.com character sheet. I also have my Askmrrobot.com character sheet. I'm just going to use my build with the gear I have now (which is not fully optimized). I used fully optimized gear for your Steely Resolve build. Here's the link for yours and the link for mine. I didn't include Tech Accuracy for uselessness, and I didn't include Tech Surge for redundancy.

Let's look at the numbers.

Max Power

Ranged-

Bonus Damage: 668.0

Accuracy: 90.00%

Crit: 23.57%

Surge: 79.87%

Tech-

Bonus Damage: 1023.9

Crit: 30.74% (36.74% on FB, IM and CGC with Proto Burn Enhancers)

Steely Resolve:

Ranged-

Bonus Damage: 593.3

Accuracy: 97.10%

Crit: 30.59%

Surge: 76.93%

Tech-

Bonus Damage: 949.2

Crit: 34.76%

Difference between MP and SR:

Ranged-

Bonus Damage: +74.7

Accuracy: -7.10%

Crit: -7.02%

Surge: +2.94%

Tech-

Bonus Damage: +74.7

Crit: -4.02% (+1.98% to FB, IM, CGC from Proto Burn Enhancers)

Results:

What we see is marginally increased crit and accuracy for RS, at the cost of raw damage output for burst. Also, by investing into Crit instead of Power, we see the Tech attacks also suffering from a raw damage output disparity. And, remember, I'm NOT even using the numbers from the optimized Max Power build - I'm just using the numbers from the gear I currently have.

Not only does FB, IM, and CGC have a higher chance to crit with the Max Power build, but they also do more damage when they crit. FB and CGC are very important for downing tanks and heals in RWZ. Max Power damage soars far beyond Steely Resolve when targets are under 30% due to the aforementioned factors and Burnout synergies. The Max Power build also shows much higher damage potential for RS+TD burst.

The end result is Max Power showing better burst potential and lower TTK. I don't expect Malds (the guy I quoted) to agree with me and change his mind, since he's obviously so passionate about the Steely Resolve spec, but I'm posting these numbers for everyone else to observe.

Not only does FB, IM, and CGC have a higher chance to crit with the Max Power build, but they also do more damage when they crit. FB and CGC are very important for downing tanks and heals in RWZ. Max Power damage soars far beyond Steely Resolve when targets are under 30% due to the aforementioned factors and Burnout synergies. The Max Power build also shows much higher damage potential for RS+TD burst.

The end result is Max Power showing better burst potential and lower TTK. I don't expect Malds (the guy I quoted) to agree with me and change his mind, since he's obviously so passionate about the Steely Resolve spec, but I'm posting these numbers for everyone else to observe.

I would like to point out that he has 122 more expertise than you which makes a nice difference in your stats as well. Take out that extra aim from your pve armorings and then see where you are sitting at. As I see it now all 1214 expertise is good for is hitting people for high numbers with lower expertise, which in these days is rarely anyone since WH is easily obtainable. If it works on your sever great but anyone with a higher expertise rating by that much and you aren't going to hit them as hard.

As for Mald's statement about balancing yourself out... I agree that stacking power isn't that way to go. You may still have a 38% crit rate on your rail shot bolt but everything else will suffer. I never like being a one trick pony, but that is just me.

Btw your statement about killing tanks quicker. I have a tough time hitting tanks with rail shot at 96.35% acc. It is a royal pain in the *** sometimes. I haven't actually looked at parsers or anything so this is eyeballing for me. I can't imagine 6.35 percent less. Are you sure you hit them the way you say you do? We are talking about geared tanks of course.

I would like to point out that he has 122 more expertise than you which makes a nice difference in your stats as well.

Fixed. Numbers for an OPTIMIZED Steely Resolve build still don't quite stack up to the RS+TD burst and Elemtental damage potential an UNoptomized Max Power build has.

As for Mald's statement about balancing yourself out... I agree that stacking power isn't that way to go. You may still have a 38% crit rate on your rail shot bolt but everything else will suffer. I never like being a one trick pony, but that is just me.

That's all a Pyro PT is - a one trick pony. You line up burst one every 12 seconds, and try to proc an RS at least once between your TD cooldown. Over and over and over.

Btw your statement about killing tanks quicker. I have a tough time hitting tanks with rail shot at 96.35% acc. It is a royal pain in the *** sometimes. I haven't actually looked at parsers or anything so this is eyeballing for me. I can't imagine 6.35 percent less. Are you sure you hit them the way you say you do? We are talking about geared tanks of course.

FB, IM and CGC ignore mitigation values (except versus certain special defensive CD's). If my FB, IM and CGC hit harder and have a higher chance to crit, I am going to down a tank faster and more easily. Anyone that tries to use RS over and over on a ST tank isn't that bright - same goes for Immortal Juggs. Of course you aren't going to score big RS/TD numbers, because they're soaking the kinetic damage - but not versus FB, IM and CGC.

Here's the link for yours and the link for mine.

Yeah, obviously your build will show as better if you use the 27A mods instead of plain 27. Revising the stats with this instead it looks like this:

Max Power

Ranged-

Bonus Damage: 668.0

Accuracy: 90.00%

Crit: 23.57%

Surge: 79.87%

Tech-

Bonus Damage: 1023.9

Crit: 30.74% (36.74% on FB, IM and CGC with Proto Burn Enhancers)

Steely Resolve:

Ranged-

Bonus Damage: 657.3

Accuracy: 97.10%

Crit: 30.35%

Surge: 76.93%

Tech-

Bonus Damage: 1013.2

Crit: 34.53%

Difference between MP and SR:

Ranged-

Bonus Damage: +10.7

Accuracy: -7.10%

Crit: -6.78%

Surge: +2.94%

Tech-

Bonus Damage: +10.7

Crit: -3.79%

On top of that, you have 6% extra crit chance but he has 2% more damage done for fire effects.

His RS will hit 8% more often, and combining that with the higher crit chance means that he will crit his RS 28% of the time (assuming 5% defense on the target) while you only crit 20% of the time - a 40% increase (8/20) in the amunt of crits. You will of course do a lot more damage with the other attacks though.

Personally though, I'm in the middle here - I prefer your spec but his way of gearing, although I take power augments instead of aim since I'm not taking SR in PVP, and I take 1 more accuracy enhancement.

Max Power

Ranged-

Bonus Damage: 668.0

Accuracy: 90.00%

Crit: 23.57%

Surge: 79.87%

Tech-

Bonus Damage: 1023.9

Crit: 30.74% (36.74% on FB, IM and CGC with Proto Burn Enhancers)

High Accuracy:

Ranged-

Bonus Damage: 640.3

Accuracy: 98.41%

Crit: 28.41%

Surge: 75.32%

Tech-

Bonus Damage: 996.3

Crit: 35.66%

Difference between MP and SR:

Ranged-

Bonus Damage: +17.7

Accuracy: -8.41%

Crit: -4.84%

Surge: +4.55%

Tech-

Bonus Damage: +27.6

Crit: -4.92%

My RS will hit 9% more often, and combining that with the higher crit chance means that I will crit my RS 26.5% of the time (assuming 5% defense on the target) while you only crit 20% of the time - a 33% increase (6.5/20) in the amunt of crits. Our tech attacks should be about equal since your normal hits and crits will do more damage, but I will crit 13-16% more often (depending on if it's a fire effect or not).

My RS will hit 9% more often, and combining that with the higher crit chance means that I will crit my RS 26.5% of the time (assuming 5% defense on the target) while you only crit 20% of the time - a 33% increase (6.5/20) in the amunt of crits. Our tech attacks should be about equal since your normal hits and crits will do more damage, but I will crit 13-16% more often (depending on if it's a fire effect or not).

Hit and Crit percentages don't work like that. Having a 90% Accuracy does not mean I hit 85% of the time, and like-wise for your Accuracy percentage.

It means when the RNG pulls a number for me, I have a 85% chance it will be a hit. There is a difference in the end result between hitting 85% of the time and having a 85% hit chance - it's not just arguing semantics. I can hit 85% of the time with 5% accuracy and a lot of love from the RNG. I can also crit 38% of the time with 5% Crit and a lot of love from the RNG. Is it probable that I will hit/crit that often with those low numbers? No. Is it possible? Yes. You can go watch my videos - I don't miss 15% of the time. I only have a 15% chance to miss.

That's where a lot of people get stuck - not understanding statistics and percentages. you may think you understand how these numbers work, but you've just demonstrated that you do not.

Loading up-front damage is more important to Pyro PVP than anything else. the harder my initial burst hits a target,a nd the harder my subsequent RS hits, the faster and easier I will kill something.

Also, don't forget I run with the Eliminator set bonus, so my RS actually has a ~38% chance to crit.

[hijack thread] Damn, hey, Oz!! You been playing lately? [/hijack thread]

 

For everyone else - O'zara is the guy that set me straight on Pyro when I made the change from AP in early Summer of '12. Taught me pretty much everything I know about spec, gear and ability usage.

Funny and i are on Pot5 there is a lot of good players on the top end but imo a lot more bad players as well.

Hit and Crit percentages don't work like that. Having a 90% Accuracy does not mean I hit 85% of the time, and like-wise for your Accuracy percentage.

 

It means when the RNG pulls a number for me, I have a 85% chance it will be a hit. There is a difference in the end result between hitting 85% of the time and having a 85% hit chance - it's not just arguing semantics. I can hit 85% of the time with 5% accuracy and a lot of love from the RNG. I can also crit 38% of the time with 5% Crit and a lot of love from the RNG. Is it probable that I will hit/crit that often with those low numbers? No. Is it possible? Yes. You can go watch my videos - I don't miss 15% of the time. I only have a 15% chance to miss.

 

That's where a lot of people get stuck - not understanding statistics and percentages. you may think you understand how these numbers work, but you've just demonstrated that you do not.

 

Loading up-front damage is more important to Pyro PVP than anything else. the harder my initial burst hits a target,a nd the harder my subsequent RS hits, the faster and easier I will kill something.

 

Also, don't forget I run with the Eliminator set bonus, so my RS actually has a ~38% chance to crit.

So let's just drop crit completely then and get rid of those stupid crit chance talents and set bonus! After all, it's possible to crit with every ability even with a 1% crit chance!

Obviously you will sometimes get lucky and perform better than average, and sometimes you'll get unlucky and perform worse. Over time though it will be very close to the expected numbers, and the higher you push those chances the less reliant you will be on getting an extra lucky streak in order to win a fight instead of being able to do it consistently.

Yes, I know about the set bonus. I simply used your own stated numbers for it, you really should have the 1% accuracy from legacy, 5% bonus to aim+cunning (the lack of which in the stats really hurts the SR build BTW), 5% boost to bonus damage and 5% crit chance bonus too, but I didn't feel like having to go trough and update everything.

That's where a lot of people get stuck - not understanding statistics and percentages. you may think you understand how these numbers work, but you've just demonstrated that you do not.

Im sorry but while I liked your video and a little guide you are the one who is wrong here and taking percentages the wrong way. As previous poster said, following your logic one should just drop crit and accuracy to 1% altogether and get other stats instead since "they wont actually miss 99% of the time". 85% accuracy means you have 85% chance to hit, you will hit 85% of your rail shots and will miss 15% of your rail shots, its as simple as that. Run a parser, let it gather data for a couple of hours of PVP and you will see that you miss 15% of the time. Thats exactly what I see in operations when I analyze logs at the end if my accuracy is too low. Same goes for crit, If my stat sheet shows 40% chance to crit with tech attacks, after 1000 attacks number of crits will be damn close to 40%.

Im sorry but while I liked your video and a little guide you are the one who is wrong here and taking percentages the wrong way. As previous poster said, following your logic one should just drop crit and accuracy to 1% altogether and get other stats instead since "they wont actually miss 99% of the time". 85% accuracy means you have 85% chance to hit, you will hit 85% of your rail shots and will miss 15% of your rail shots, its as simple as that. Run a parser, let it gather data for a couple of hours of PVP and you will see that you miss 15% of the time. Thats exactly what I see in operations when I analyze logs at the end if my accuracy is too low. Same goes for crit, If my stat sheet shows 40% chance to crit with tech attacks, after 1000 attacks number of crits will be damn close to 40%.

Hmm. I did similar tests on defence chance(sry off topic), and I found the results represented the initial amount. However I think that both of you are right in this discussion. There is randomness to the roll when you are relying on a crit...you could crit RS 5 times in a row, yet miss 5 times in a row. When you examine results after prolonged periods of combat, then yes, the numbers always make more sence. In the pt's scenarios, with all the many attacks ticking away, a higher crit rating would definately be better. However if yer talking about a 5 or 10percent difference(at the cost of power), then I would say no. At the onset of battle there are no guarantees. Therefore I hold no stock in crit rating simply because it can never be relied on, regardless of its amount.(not including scenarios of auto crit lol).

The players involved in combat have rolls on their personal stats, the largest value becoming the winner. Example would be...why does force/tech damage always hit?(all bubbles/evades/immunities not included). What one if you should do is get a full set of crit/surge and see what that yields. Lol even with let's say 80percent crit chance on RS...yer still gonna miss.

POWER FTW

Funny and i are on Pot5 there is a lot of good players on the top end but imo a lot more bad players as well.

Yeah, I imagined that's how it was on a much more populated server. I kind of wish I would have rerolled when I had the chance.

So let's just drop crit completely then and get rid of those stupid crit chance talents and set bonus! After all, it's possible to crit with every ability even with a 1% crit chance!

 

Obviously you will sometimes get lucky and perform better than average, and sometimes you'll get unlucky and perform worse. Over time though it will be very close to the expected numbers, and the higher you push those chances the less reliant you will be on getting an extra lucky streak in order to win a fight instead of being able to do it consistently.

 

Yes, I know about the set bonus. I simply used your own stated numbers for it, you really should have the 1% accuracy from legacy, 5% bonus to aim+cunning (the lack of which in the stats really hurts the SR build BTW), 5% boost to bonus damage and 5% crit chance bonus too, but I didn't feel like having to go trough and update everything.

I understand where you were going with the sarcasm, however, you have to realize that I've personally run both builds. In fact, I went from a Steely Resolve build (back in July 2012) to a Max Power build. I had to try it out, because it was recommended to me. What kind of competitive gamer would I be if I don't try things for myself? And you know what I found? Max Power simply out-performs Steely Resolve on every level. My crits are larger, my sustained DPS is better, my CGC is more efficient, and I rip through other Pyros. This is not just me running my mouth and thinking I know how to do things - I've actually done it for myself.

Im sorry but while I liked your video and a little guide you are the one who is wrong here and taking percentages the wrong way. As previous poster said, following your logic one should just drop crit and accuracy to 1% altogether and get other stats instead since "they wont actually miss 99% of the time". 85% accuracy means you have 85% chance to hit, you will hit 85% of your rail shots and will miss 15% of your rail shots, its as simple as that. Run a parser, let it gather data for a couple of hours of PVP and you will see that you miss 15% of the time. Thats exactly what I see in operations when I analyze logs at the end if my accuracy is too low. Same goes for crit, If my stat sheet shows 40% chance to crit with tech attacks, after 1000 attacks number of crits will be damn close to 40%.

Operations and PVP are two different things. In Operations, especially on bosses, your up-time can be anywhere from 5-10 minutes. In PVP, I find my up-time on targets is 8-20 seconds. That's enough time for 2-4 Rail Shots. I will on occasion miss one. I VERY rarely miss two in a row.

If anyone is seriously doubting me, simply watch my videos. Stop being scared to drop some crit and accuracy to favor harder hits - It actually does work. There's simply no reason anyone should play one of the highest damage single-target PVP classes like they're trying to down raid bosses.

after watching Sippix vids i've decided to give my PT a try and geared him for full power.

this is how i'm geared right now:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/1306f12e-8078-4137-b6b6-f3976540434f

its notnin special but right now i rarely miss with RS .

if anyone have doubts about power build , i say give it a try and you wont regret

EDIT

any advice on how to imporve my gear to EWH would be appreciated

This guy is right about the power build giving you the most damage, but dropping your accuracy down to 90% is not a smart thing to do. You would be much better off getting it up to either 94% or 96% for ranged attacks.

He only mentions rail shot, but you gotta think about your other abilities that can miss also like rapid shots and unload (even though you dont use this much)

90% might work against noobs but when youre playing against good teams, one miss with rail shot (as rare as that could be) could cost you the game, its not worth the risk. Just use 2 War Hero Annihilator's MK-1 Enhancers which will get you up to 94% accuracy and more power than what youre using now, best of both worlds.

Here's some number crunching:

Values (approximate bonus damage per point):

Aim = 0.2

Power = 0.23

Augments are the only place on gear where you can trade aim for power at a 1 to 1 ratio, so they are the only thing that is being considered in the following calculations.

Number of pieces of augmented gear: 14

Amount of additional stat (non-endurace) granted per augment: 18

14 x 18 = 252

Mark of Power grants 5% base stat modifier

Steely Resolve grants 3% Aim modifier per point up to maximum of 3 points (9% aim)

Gains from augments:

Aim:

0.2 x 252 = 50.4 bonus damage

Power:

0.23 x 252 = 57.96 bonus damage

Aim w/ Mark of Power:

252 x 0.05 + 252 = 264.6 x 0.2 = 52.92 bonus damage

Aim w/ Steely Resolve (1pt):

252 x 0.03 + 252 = 259.56 x 0.2 = 51.912 bonus damage

Aim w/ Steely Resolve (2pt):

252 x 0.06 + 252 = 267.12 x 0.2 = 53.424 bonus damage

Aim w/ Mark of Power and Steely Resolve (1pt):

252 x 0.08 + 252 = 272.16 x 0.2 = 54.432 bonus damage

Aim w/ Mark of Power and Steely Resolve (2pt):

252 x 0.11 + 252 = 279.72 x 0.2 = 55.944 bonus damage

Aim w/ Mark of Power and Steely Resolve (3pt):

252 x 0.14 + 252 = 287.28 x 0.2 = 57.456 bonus damage

Conclusion: Power adds more bonus damage per point than aim even with modifiers, however, Aim adds additional crit.

The question: Is it worth it?

Here's an example taken from a profile with a 4/6/31 build listed earlier in this thread:

Power augments

now here's the same profile except with Aim augments,

Aim augments

The power augment set has 668 ranged and 1023.9 tech bonus damage.

The aim augment set has 662.7 ranged and 1018.6 tech bonus damage.

The power augment set has 23.57% ranged and 30.74% tech crit.

The aim augment set has 24.92% ranged and 32.09% tech crit.

668 - 662.7, or 1023.9 - 1018.6 = 5.3 bonus damage

24.92 - 23.57, or 32.09 - 30.74 = 1.35% crit

Hence, in this case it would be up to the user to decide do I want 5.3 more bonus damage (power) or 1.35% more crit (aim).