people just can't help but make QQ threads....

that attitude is fine and dandy if this was a Death-match mode but it is not, it is a King of the Hill mode, a mode that only works if your team works as a whole... there is no room for Cowboys in King of the Hill, Cowboys belong in Death-match which is not available as of yet... what y'all are suggesting is removing the teamwork from a goal oriented mode that requires teamwork to be effective, what y'all really want is a free for all Death-match mode...

 

No. GSF is Premade Voice Chat mode. If that level of communication and coordination is required to do anything but die over and over, Bioware needs to make changes.

 

Or they can have your "take or leave it" attitude and watch subscribers leave.

Or they can have your "take or leave it" attitude and watch subscribers leave.

 

You must be new here. That's pretty much always been their motto.

You must be new here. That's pretty much always been their motto.

 

and its done then well. EA has already officially said that the game as it stands now is making more money than ever before. Even at release.

No. GSF is Premade Voice Chat mode. If that level of communication and coordination is required to do anything but die over and over, Bioware needs to make changes.

 

Or they can have your "take or leave it" attitude and watch subscribers leave.

 

that's funny cause i mostly Que as solo, and don't use any VoIP of any kind when i do party up... when we succeed it's because we worked as a team, we set up a plan at the beginning when you first enter the map using the chat box provided, and as long as everyone sticks to it we win... when we lose it's because nobody listened and went all Cowboy chasing the Kill Count and neglecting the goal... no VoIP needed, just common sense and a willingness to stick to the plan and not get suckered away from the goal so it can be easily taken...

Edited January 1, 2014 by Elly_Dawn

that's funny cause i mostly Que as solo, and don't use any VoIP of any kind when i do party up... when we succeed it's because we worked as a team, we set up a plan at the beginning when you first enter the map using the chat box provided, and as long as everyone sticks to it we win... when we lose it's because nobody listened and went all Cowboy chasing the Kill Count and neglecting the goal, no VoIP needed, just common sense and a willingness to stick to the plan and not get suckered away from the goal so it can be easily taken...

 

Sounds like a PUG to me!

 

Headsets however, bring the opportunity for split second coordination without having to take a typing break, hence why texting macros are not allowed in the warzones, and using them can result in a suspension of your account.

It is an unfair advantage.

why yes i do PUG mostly... but i will never deny the "Premades" their right to be included into a game mode that was designed to benefit that particular style of play, i for one have no problem playing with them or against them, bring it on we'll test our skills together in combat...

 

 

just saiyan...

why yes i do PUG mostly... but i will never deny the "Premades" their right to be included into a game mode that was designed to benefit that particular style of play, i for one have no problem playing with them or against them, bring it on we'll test our skills together in combat...

 

 

just saiyan...

 

Come to Shadowlands and queue solo as Imp weekends or holidays.

 

Last 2 matches I was in, the Rep premades won 1000 to 15 and 1000 to 5. They move in 4's or 8's in seconds to any satellite even threatened, never mind taken. My side had a total of 8 kills in the 2 matches, and I had 6 of those myself. If you're the best GSF player on the world the final score would likely have been 1000 to 50.

 

This just illustrates why the majority of MMO players despise PvP, and try to avoid it in EVERY game.

Edited January 2, 2014 by ptwonline

<sigh>

 

If the enemy holds two satellites, and 1/3 of your team does nothing but 'defend' the one satellite you hold and the enemy has _no_ reason to ever attack, then you already lost the match.

 

When enemy holds two satellites, you can affort ONE defender at the one you own, at most, and in all seriousness you probably should ALL be attacking, with no guard at all, just watch the minimap to see if the sat is under attack, the three turrets are there for a reason, to give you enough time to get back to it if it needs defending.

 

 

 

yes you shoul;d be attacking the sats not sitting out in the middle of nowhere dogfighting

...This just illustrates why the majority of MMO players despise PvP, and try to avoid it in EVERY game.

 

i'm one of those people that despise PvP, and it's not because of being outmatched but because of the general bad attitude of most PvP players... really check my post history it's riddled with "i hate PvP" and the reasons why... but, on the flip-side GSF is the first PvP action i found that i enjoy, it's fun and i don't have to listen to screaming high-pitched 12 year olds trying to sound "mature" by dropping F-Bombs and insulting people constantly over a headset...

i'm one of those people that despise PvP, and it's not because of being outmatched but because of the general bad attitude of most PvP players... really check my post history it's riddled with "i hate PvP" and the reasons why... but, on the flip-side GSF is the first PvP action i found that i enjoy, it's fun and i don't have to listen to screaming high-pitched 12 year olds trying to sound "mature" by dropping F-Bombs and insulting people constantly over a headset...

 

I am absolutely in the same boat as you, and I simply couldn't agree more. I never did PvP in this game prior to GSF. Literally never: I've never queued for a single warzone on a single toon in 2 years. When GSF came out, I had no intention of playing it at all. I tried it out just to see what it was like and got hooked (I think it's because the annoying "circle strafe and jump like an idiot" trope doesn't happen in GSF).

 

But to the topic at hand: yes, voice helps, a LOT. But the bigger problem is people chasing kills and not monitoring the objectives. It does not take voice comms to have super fast reaction. When one of your turrets gets blown up, you get a message. When someone is within "taking" range of one of your satellites, it blinks. If we're holding two satellites and I'm off dogfighting or putting pressure on the 3rd to keep them from pushing our 2 satellites, as SOON as I see a turret pop or a satellite flash I disengage and boost straight for the pressured satellite. Even if I have the enemy to 5% hull and am about to get a kill, if the choice is lose a satellite or lose a kill, I choose to lose the kill (well, unless it's a gunship that's blown me up several times already ).

 

It doesn't take voice comms to know that your satellite is under attacks. If the team watches the satellite indicators at the top of the screen and zealously guards them, voice comms are not strictly necessary. They definitely help in many situations and there's no doubt that they give an advantage. But if your team is composed of team players rather than people trying to rack up a high kill count then you have a much bigger possibility of winning. The problem isn't SOLELY premades, in MANY cases the problem is that half the team is off chasing 2 enemy scouts 15,000m from the nearest satellite while the enemy uses a huge numbers advantage to pummel the remaining defenders.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Eldrenath

When you have the same pool of 10 good players queueing on one side, and the same pool of 10 bad players queueing on the other, there isn't much a matchmaking can do to stop unbalanced matches save not start any matches at all...

 

This^^^

i'm one of those people that despise PvP, and it's not because of being outmatched but because of the general bad attitude of most PvP players... really check my post history it's riddled with "i hate PvP" and the reasons why... but, on the flip-side GSF is the first PvP action i found that i enjoy, it's fun and i don't have to listen to screaming high-pitched 12 year olds trying to sound "mature" by dropping F-Bombs and insulting people constantly over a headset...

 

My experience--been playing MMO's since 1999 although not that many different games (AC, CoH, WoW, Rift, STO, SWTOR, GW, GW2) is that the bad attitude people have against PvP is because they feel like they are being exploited and have no chance, and it gets them frustrated and upset. Put them in an environent where they think they have more of a chance and they enjoy it a LOT more.

 

Players are not used to THAT much failure in MMOs. In Pvp On average you are going to fail 50% of the time. I thin kpeople can accept that. But when you have more skilled payers and premades, you could be faced with failing 90%+ of the time during certan time periods, and without even the satisfaction of something that feels like a partial victory. That people DO NOT accept.

 

For example, in WoW the smaller BGs like Warsong Gulch a lot of people dreaded and detested because they would get rolled by premades and feel they didn't have a chance. But a big open BG with lots of larger scale battles objectives against NPCs like Alterac Valley? MUCH more popular. Same with the PvP zones they introduced with bigger battles and less focus on actual PvP, like Wintergrasp.

 

Domination games like these are more like Warsong Gulch because it's mostly head-to-head combat and players will feel the sting of unequel skill, unequal gear/ships, and the effect of premades a lot more. That is why it is so crucial to get more maps that have more objectives that involve less direct player vs player fighting because it will mitigate what many players find so distasteful about PvP.

 

Watch: if they put i a map that is more about something like capital ship dismantling and capture and taking out guns and defenses instead of just fighter-to-fighter action, that will probably become a lot more popular.

Edited January 2, 2014 by ptwonline

Domination games like these are more like Warsong Gulch because it's mostly head-to-head combat and players will feel the sting of unequel skill, unequal gear/ships, and the effect of premades a lot more. That is why it is so crucial to get more maps that have more objectives that involve less direct player vs player fighting because it will mitigate what many players find so distasteful about PvP.

 

Watch: if they put i a map that is more about something like capital ship dismantling and capture and taking out guns and defenses instead of just fighter-to-fighter action, that will probably become a lot more popular.

 

Outstanding points, very well stated. I honestly had not thought about this at ALL but it makes good sense. Your example of "capital ship dismantling" is a great one--even if you get shot down but you managed to accomplish X or Y objective before doing so I think the average player will have more fun overall.

 

A perfect example of this is in close domination matches. If I lose 5 in a row by 100 points or less I'll be frustrated not to eke out a victory, but I'd be having a lot more fun--close matches can kind of nail-biting fun with the last minute pushes, back and forth of the score, etc. But lose 5 matches in a row by 500+ points and the attitude is much different indeed.

Outstanding points, very well stated. I honestly had not thought about this at ALL but it makes good sense. Your example of "capital ship dismantling" is a great one--even if you get shot down but you managed to accomplish X or Y objective before doing so I think the average player will have more fun overall.

 

A perfect example of this is in close domination matches. If I lose 5 in a row by 100 points or less I'll be frustrated not to eke out a victory, but I'd be having a lot more fun--close matches can kind of nail-biting fun with the last minute pushes, back and forth of the score, etc. But lose 5 matches in a row by 500+ points and the attitude is much different indeed.

 

Losing by 500 is nothing. Vs the premades now I feel lucky if my side gets over 100 points total.

 

Last three matches I played yesterday my side got 100 points...in all three matches combined. The only reason we got that many is because in the last match I started using creative suicide to lure the premade group to another satellite (8v8. Kill 2-3 turrets in a few seconds with my gunship, kill myself as the 4-5 enemies get there in seconds to overwhelm it, let them feast on my three hopelessly outmatched teammates who went there in desperate hope of actually capping something, and then I could go to where they abandoned and cap it for at least a short time til they came back. This is the only way we could eke out any points.) We got a total of 10 kills in those three matches combined, and I had 6 of them myself.

The matches are so unbalanced it has become a really unpleasant experience. I don't know if its just pre-mades or just full geared ships against lower geared stuff but the SSSP was a waste of time and hype and having been all for a space addition if this is what Bioware do with it they shouldn't have bothered. I feel really sorry for any premiums or free to players who got dick all from 2.5 and will have the enjoyment of GSF to look forward to in the coming weeks month only to get ganked to death.

I don't know if its just pre-mades or just full geared ships against lower geared stuff

 

It's mainly just good players versus bad players.

My experience--been playing MMO's since 1999 although not that many different games (AC, CoH, WoW, Rift, STO, SWTOR, GW, GW2) is that the bad attitude people have against PvP is because they feel like they are being exploited and have no chance, and it gets them frustrated and upset.

 

I disagree. For most of the people I know that despise MMO PVP, it is because of the attitudes of the other players. We've all run into the guy with no life outside the game, who has the best gear, and can't resist the urge to talk about how awesome he is and how n00b you are (even though most of it is gear-based). Foul-mouthed, immature, desperate for attention because mommy was always working and daddy was never there.

 

I'm not surprised at all that people would rather deal with NPC's all day, when the players above are the alternative.

 

It's mainly just good players versus bad players.

 

Absolutely not. Mediocre premades are even facerolling pugs made up of some very good players. Sometimes those players can turn it around, but the coordination advantage that players on a voice system have is tremendous.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Svarthrafn

Absolutely not. Mediocre premades are even facerolling pugs made up of some very good players. Sometimes those players can turn it around, but the coordination advantage that players on a voice system have is tremendous.

 

I've never even noticed a premade without good players...not sure how you do. Saberwing talks about running premades constantly on TEH, but the only one I ever even recognize are the ones with Hanak and Nailin...and even that group only really blows us out (like keeps us under 100) when we have a bad team /shrug

Edited January 2, 2014 by Lymain

Losing by 500 is nothing. Vs the premades now I feel lucky if my side gets over 100 points total.

 

Really? I pug most of my matches and duo with a firend of mine and I feel bad when the enemy gets more than 3 points on my team.

 

Some people can't tell the difference between faction balance, premades, or just plain bad luck with RNG group compositions.

I've never even noticed a premade without good players...not sure how you do. Saberwing talks about running premades constantly on TEH, but the only one I ever even recognize are the ones with Hanak and Nailin...and even that group only really blows us out (like keeps us under 100) when we have a bad team /shrug

 

I've flown with you on Ebon Hawk several times, but to take from your example, Nailin and Hanek aren't even particularly good pilots, pretty much just relying on the burst power of flashfires to get some kills, and yes, we do manage to beat them a lot.

 

I see a couple four-man premades, and a couple duos on TEH fairly consistently, and they aren't really good pilots either, but watching from a distance (proton-using strike pilot here!), I am able to watch the entire groups focus fire one poor guy, then switch to focus fire the next at a moment's notice and so on. You just can't do that nearly as well without voice.

I've flown with you on Ebon Hawk several times, but to take from your example, Nailin and Hanek aren't even particularly good pilots, pretty much just relying on the burst power of flashfires to get some kills, and yes, we do manage to beat them a lot.

 

I see a couple four-man premades, and a couple duos on TEH fairly consistently, and they aren't really good pilots either, but watching from a distance (proton-using strike pilot here!), I am able to watch the entire groups focus fire one poor guy, then switch to focus fire the next at a moment's notice and so on. You just can't do that nearly as well without voice.

 

Whether or not we label them as 'good pilots', they could pretty much do what they do without being in a premade or using voice chat (not talking about the focus fire but just the kills they get in general, ect). As far as the focus fire goes, I haven't noticed it, but what difference does it really make? A skilled pilot in an upgraded ship can take out a target pretty much instantly on their own anyway. If you're saying that a group of four average pilots using focus fire can have about the same effect as a single skilled pilot operating solo, then I would tend to agree with you, but I don't see that as a huge, insurmountable challenge for the opposing team to overcome.

 

After almost exclusively solo queuing for the past month, I joined a premade using voice chat a few times over the last couple days. We have yet to really be challenged at all in those matches. However, we get minimal, if any, use out of voice chat. Most of the chatter is about how we're shooting them down so fast or whatever...about the only tactical thing that I've heard said was "take out that gunship." We really don't dominate because of any tactical/communication advantage - it's just that we have 3-4 competent pilots on the same team, which is usually more than the other team has.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Lymain

I am able to watch the entire groups focus fire one poor guy, then switch to focus fire the next at a moment's notice and so on. You just can't do that nearly as well without voice.

 

I sincerely doubt they are focus firing targets down in the manner described.

 

There is no way to mark targets. There is no way to use assist to acquire the target your buddy is targeting. The only way to 'focus fire' is every pilot of the group doing a "tab tab tab tab" until he gets the called name in his target window, and by the time all 4 get the same target, it will likely be A) dead or B) out of range.

 

No, they just all attack the same target if it happens to be the only target nearby, and that would happen with a random group of 4 soloers just as well.

You may doubt it happens, but I've sat back and watched it, too. Can't say they're on voice or not, but definitely a premade since it's the same 4 guys always in the same squad on team. They focus fire on one target at a time, burn them down fast and then go on to the next. It gets pretty ugly for the defender.

Come to Shadowlands and queue solo as Imp weekends or holidays.

 

Last 2 matches I was in, the Rep premades won 1000 to 15 and 1000 to 5. They move in 4's or 8's in seconds to any satellite even threatened, never mind taken. My side had a total of 8 kills in the 2 matches, and I had 6 of those myself. If you're the best GSF player on the world the final score would likely have been 1000 to 50.

 

This just illustrates why the majority of MMO players despise PvP, and try to avoid it in EVERY game.

 

This.

 

I dare anybody to play in the imp side on Shadowlands and have anything resembling fun. Winning with bonus reqs nets you an extra 1,000 ship reqs...vs about 650 when you lose. That's HUGE. Trying to grind your way up to 5th tier upgrades on the imp side is enough to make you pull your hair out.