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Tactician operative stealth nerf yet no compensation

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Tactician operative stealth nerf yet no compensation

Farferello's Avatar


Farferello
03.06.2020 , 11:16 PM | #21
Can't say I'm pleased about the stealth nerf considering they'd already nerfed acid lash on top of it.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
03.07.2020 , 02:07 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
Sorc gets nerf and buffed. Sin gets nerf and buffed and only operative gets nerf and nothing else. This proves theory devs just hate certain classes or have no idea how to adjust them.
No...it proves the theory that conc ops just needed a straight nerf because that's how good they are. How is this hard to understand.

JulWolle's Avatar


JulWolle
03.07.2020 , 05:52 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
No...it proves the theory that conc ops just needed a straight nerf because that's how good they are. How is this hard to understand.
How about if you want pvp nerfs you call for pvp nerfs and not nerfs that also hit pve...

omaan's Avatar


omaan
03.07.2020 , 06:40 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
No...it proves the theory that conc ops just needed a straight nerf because that's how good they are. How is this hard to understand.
Sorc and sin also needed nerf yet with nerf devs buffed their crits or sustained. Sin, sorc and oper were the strongest meele and range classes among all. They all were nearly on same lvl in ranked pvp yet operative gets only nerf while overpowered sorc and sin gets nerf + buff. This is unfair, unlogical and dumb to say at least
Support the most evil, mad and cruel sith named Stain by clicking this small link http://www.swtor.com/r/wSmNkK You will get additional 7 days of subscription while i get some goodies
May the kek be with you. Save ranked and class balance pls

ottffsse's Avatar


ottffsse
03.07.2020 , 07:36 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
Sorc and sin also needed nerf yet with nerf devs buffed their crits or sustained. Sin, sorc and oper were the strongest meele and range classes among all. They all were nearly on same lvl in ranked pvp yet operative gets only nerf while overpowered sorc and sin gets nerf + buff. This is unfair, unlogical and dumb to say at least
Without compensation sorc nerf on their gathering storm set is huge. Like easy 1.5K dps loss on lightning and 1k on madness. Of course they needed compensation given at least for PvEsustain damage madness is not doing too hot as is.
ref http://www.swtor.com/r/gFbhFZ Melisen / Sage Zrella / Sorc

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
03.07.2020 , 08:57 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by JulWolle View Post
How about if you want pvp nerfs you call for pvp nerfs and not nerfs that also hit pve...
For better or worse, balance in this game affects both pvp and pve. But ranked pvp is the only place it actually matters, because the different classes directly compete against each other. As long as every class can make the necessary dps/heal checks and clear all the content, the dps hierarchy for pve really doesn't matter except to people that only play "meta" classes all the time.

Quote: Originally Posted by omaan View Post
They all were nearly on same lvl in ranked pvp
Except sorc is not nearly on the same level as deception sin and concealment op lol. This isn't up for debate, you're just posting nonsense.

AllisonLightning's Avatar


AllisonLightning
03.07.2020 , 09:32 AM | #27
Spike damage and burst through almost an entire health pool? Operative healers are the least capable healer in that regard and while maybe, just maybe in PvP you can mitigate some of that through human error. In PvE NiM/MM, the ability to respond to spike damage and bring the required burst window in seconds has always been merc/sorc>operative. Sure, we can have our HoTs ticking and our sustained single target up but if a severe and sudden spike has just put a tank firmly into low health from full requiring massive heals in as few GCDs as possible- there's a clear way to run a healing comp.

PvE has just as much of a priority on class balance, for healers, DPS and tanks as ranked PvP and it's arrogant to assume otherwise because PvP is the most important thing for you.
http://www.swtor.com/r/xsvzTv

Come to the dark side, where you get cookies and so do I.

LD_Little_Dragon's Avatar


LD_Little_Dragon
03.07.2020 , 10:33 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonLightning View Post

PvE has just as much of a priority on class balance, for healers, DPS and tanks as ranked PvP and it's arrogant to assume otherwise because PvP is the most important thing for you.
Not just PvP, they were only concerned with the concealment spec. Let's just forget about lethality/heals, as though they're not important, it's all about concealment. If one spec is overperforming you make changes to THAT SPEC only, not sweeping changes that screw with the in-no way overperforming other 2 specs.

And healers should use a healer set? *** does that mean? Healers like bonuses to crits, more TA, and a bonus to heals which is what the Tacticians set bonus gives us. Stop calling Tacticians a dps-only set.

The only so-called healers set for operatives is a aoe-focused set, that does absolutely nothing for their hots or burst.

Aggressive Treatment is great for 16 man ops (provided your co-healers are keeping the tank up) where you can basically spam your aoe heals only. Wheee. I happen to like flashpoints and 8 man ops, and don't always run with a merc co-healer which means I need to keep the tank alive and can't just spam aoe's.
Stealthy heals, stealthy dps, stealthy tank.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
03.07.2020 , 11:07 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonLightning View Post
PvE has just as much of a priority on class balance, for healers, DPS and tanks as ranked PvP and it's arrogant to assume otherwise because PvP is the most important thing for you.
Oh yeah? if you think balance matters as much for pve as it does for pvp, make an argument for it, don't just state it. Again, as long as every class can clear all the content, balance does not matter in pve. There will always be a pecking order regardless. If there are classes that are so bad that they can't clear certain content, that's a problem, but from my understanding that has never been the case in this game.

In pvp, however, all the classes compete against each other in the game mode. If certain classes are outperforming others by a big enough margin, that makes for a fundamentally unfair and un-fun experience.

themagickoala's Avatar


themagickoala
03.07.2020 , 12:32 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Oh yeah? if you think balance matters as much for pve as it does for pvp, make an argument for it, don't just state it..
You do understand the class performance set the spot preferences for progression guilds on HM/NiM ops, right? For reference, please elaborate how many 4v4 Ranked teams you saw pre 5.0 with a TK sage on the composition. Or go back to 2.0, where sentinels and gunslingers formed every HM progression. The same goes for PVE, if a build is underperforming far worst then the curve, it will be avoided.

Its still able to clear content? Probably, same as undertuned builds would perform well on PVP if pushed above the curve. The issue here is that the collateral damage from nerfing Conc will exclude Op healers from progression again, since the build weakness was never solved in first place (thats a systemic issue that goes back to 4.0).

So no, sadly the nerf on Tactician isn't a simple matter and obvious as it looks. Also if they simply wanted to nerf Conc, they could push the nerf on Acid Lash further, or remove the dmg component of the +6 piece and leave the heal comp.

On the other hand, if you look at other sets, nerfing it by 50% puts it on par with other buff uptimes. While that sounds logical, those builds already overperform Op heals, so youre stretching the gap again and making it an viable option only for content wich doesnt push burst heal scenarios (the class weakness).

PVP balance cant be compared to scripted encounters on HM/NiM where the target requirements are fixed, since those encounters are tuned and buffed over player experience and internal testing, and those rarely reflect the undertuned builds, but the meta ones.

So imo balancing PVE is actually harder then PVP, where playskill can overcome numbers.