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Inquisitor and Consular Class Changes in 6.1.1 - Feedback

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Inquisitor and Consular Class Changes in 6.1.1 - Feedback
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Dhurwin's Avatar


Dhurwin
03.29.2020 , 02:23 AM | #191
I'm seeing a lot of people disagreeing with these proposed changes but not a lot of specific counter changes being suggested. So I'm curious to know what kinds of changes we as players of these classes can come up with as opposed to the ones the devs wish to push through. What do we think these classes need in order to be desirable without going overboard? And while I personally clearly only care about the Corruption spec, I am also interested in how people would like to see dps sorcs and sins change for the better. So without further ado, my suggestions.

Sorcerer

  • The Revitalized Mystic set bonus has been rebalanced:
    • 4 piece - Reverse Corruptions increases your force regeneration by an additional 1 per second.
    • 6 piece - Reduces the cooldown of Innervate by 1.5 seconds. Consuming a stack of Force Surge increases the amount healed by your next healing ability by 10%.


The change to the 4 piece here ends up being about the same as if you were use Resurgence on CD, 5 force about every 5 sec vs 1 force a sec, but this changes the focus to maintaining your Reverse Corruptions, which adds something to the class, and can potentially shift your playstyle / priorities, vs just a passive force cost reduction on one ability you're going to use anyway, which is kinda boring.

The change to the 6 piece comes from me seeing pretty much everyone wanting the CD reduction back, but I felt that just having that reduction was a bit too... bland you know? It's a 6 piece for goodness' sake, it should feel like something worth the effort of getting. I just pulled the 10% bonus outta thin air, wasn't too much thought behind it. It synergizes with the 4 piece's idea of keeping your Reverse Corruptions up. One ability gaining a 10% bonus at least once every 10 sec didn't sound too game breaking to me at least. Spending an extra GCD on a heal for only a 10% isn't very worth it, the set would promote the evaluation of what you have available, what heal would benefit the most and be most effective for the current situation when you use Consuming Darkness naturally. This to me sounds better than a 15% chance to tick Resurgence, regardless of if the HoT has been buffed.

  • The Empowered Restorer set bonus has been redesigned:
    • 4 piece - reduces the duration of Deionized by 3 sec.
    • 6 piece - Static Barrier immediately heals the target when applied.


The 4 piece change shouldn't result in more overall healing than the HoT component, it just front loads the extra healing into more bubbles vs a 12 sec HoT.

I feel that with these changes more people will choose the set that fits their playstyle vs feeling that only the mystic or only the restorer set is worth using. Currently on live, pretty much every sorc healer uses the mystic set, with some even using the dps's Gathering Storm set in pvp, but almost no one uses the restorer set. The devs' changes to these sets make people feel like they wasted their time getting the mystic set now that it's being nerfed into the ground and the restorer set is being buffed so much. Both sets should be equally enticing depending on the way you want to play.

Corruption

  • Penetrating Darkness now increases the critical chance of Dark Heal 10% in addition to increasing bonus healing by 3%.


There's really no point in taking this 3% bonus away from us. We're already at the bottom of the parses as it is. We've had this 3% bonus for about as long as I can remember, it should stick around.

  • Roaming Mend is left completely alone, but the Tactical Item: All for One, has been redesigned - now changes the Force Bending effect for Roaming Mend to cause it to tick on the same target every .5 sec, jumping to a new target only if expending a charge to heal the current target would bring them above 100% health.


The current change to Roaming Mend and All for One doesn't change the overall healing of Roaming Mend (heals for 20% less, but has an extra tick, so same amount of overall healing) it just potentially allows one target to be healed for slightly more over all. It's like a 21.5% potential increase to one target. While this change tells me the devs wanted this to function as our ST option, the issue here is the word "potential". There's no guarantee that that one person would get healed 3 times, receiving the full benefit of this Tactical Item. My suggestion completely removes the pseudo-AoE of Roaming Mend giving us a powerful ST burst option. It'd probably have to have reduced effectiveness to keep it from being a potential 80k heal, but I see no reason it can't be like a 50k total heal with crits.

With the Dark Heal changes going through, even if Roaming Mend remains nerfed, our Single Target should be fine. Our problem lies in our total lack of AoE healing. We really only have one AoE heal, Revivification. Roaming Mend is powerful should it hit the same target twice, but should it happen to go to 4 different targets the amount each gets isn't anything near the capabilities of merc and ops. Force Suffusion is 4k every 15 sec so that's... awesome... And Revivification is an amazing potential heal, but it takes so long to get the heal out that A. it doesn't do anything to help save anyone and B. it ends up having the highest overhealing of all your abilities because what Revivification needs 10 secs to do, Operatives and Mercs can do in 3 sec with Kolto Waves and Kolto Missile with Kolto Pods and Supercharged, respectively.

I think a complete rework of Revivification is needed. For this I have a few ideas:

Change #1

  • Revivification is left unchanged.
  • Force Bending now makes Revivification activate instantly.
  • Tactical Item: One for All has been redesigned - Revivification's healing pool is preceded by a burst of dark Force energy, healing up to 8 allies within it.


I still can't install the pts for some reason so idk how much the burst of healing is, but I do hope it's at least a modest chunk of health. The issues with having the burst come at the end are this: it still takes 10 whole seconds to make that heal happen, during which the other two classes have topped everyone off, and it requires people to either stay in one area for 10 seconds or at the very least make their way over to that area before the 10 secs are up. This is adding an extra mechanic to fights that wouldn't normally exist thus further complicating things. Who's going to bring a healer that needs the entire raid team to go out of their way in order to be effective?

Change #2

  • Revivification has been redesigned - now heals your target and the 3 lowest health allies within 20m instantly for x amount. 2 sec cast.
  • Force Bending now causes Revivification to heal your target and the 7 lowest health allies within 20m for 50% of it original value.
  • Tactical Item: One for All has been redesigned - now lowers the amount of healing lost when you use Force Bending on Revivification by half.


Since Roaming Mend is Prayer of Mending from WoW, I thought that changing Revivification from Healing Rain to Prayer of Healing to be appropriate. The percentages chosen were arbitrarily picked just to get the idea across, always room for lots of tweaking. This change would allow us to have a more upfront AoE, while giving us the ability to heal the people who need it most. Only a few people are damaged? Cast without Force Bending. The whole raid is hurt? Cast with Force Bending.

Change #3

  • Revivification has been redesigned - now heals your target instantly before jumping to the next most injured allies within 20m. Each jump lowers the amount healed by 20%. Jumps 3 times, for a total of 4 targets healed. 2 sec cast.
  • Force Bending now allows your Revivification to jump 7 times, for a total of 8 targets healed.
  • Tactical Item: One for All has been redesigned - now reduces the amount of healing lost per jump of your Revivification by half.


This one actually came to me as I was typing this up. Same sort of idea as #2, just a slightly different way to go about it. Being able to heal few targets or many targets, with an upfront AoE.

Change #4

  • Revivification has been resigned - now is a channeled ability that heals all allies, excluding yourself, within 20m over 3 sec.
  • Force Bending now makes Revivification uninterruptible and allows you to channel Revivification while moving.
  • Tactical Item: One for All has been redesigned - now causes you to pour your life force into Revivification, draining 9% of your current health over the duration of the channel to increase its healing by 20%.


Probably the most boring out of the ideas in my head, but it would make this a competitive AoE heal to Kolto Missile / Supercharged Burst and Kolto Waves, and the health sacrifice makes me feel nostalgic and warm and fuzzy inside. Plus I like the idea of literally giving a part of yourself to heal your allies. The range and healing amount are up in the air, just like most of the numbers in this, just there to help people visualize the spell.

Change #5

  • Revivification has been redesigned - now places a 8m radius pool down that persists for 10 sec, applying a protective barrier lasting 3 sec that absorbs a moderate amount of damage on up to 8 allies that enter the area. The barrier stays on your targets when they leave the area. If Revivification isn't fully consumed on a target, it heals the target for the remaining absorption amount. Once an ally's current barrier is consumed, they may receive another, but this ability leaves your targets feeling tainted by the Dark Side, reducing the effectiveness of any Revivification barriers they receive after the first for 10 seconds. Not affected by Deionized.
  • Force Bending now lowers the duration of Tainted by 5 sec.
  • Tactical Item: All for One has been redesigned - now increases the radius and number of allies it affects by 50%.


Probably my favorite idea out of all of these, I mean who doesn't want MORE bubbles. These bubbles are much weaker than Static Barrier (thinking like 10k, no Sustaining Darkness, and the new set bonus would not apply to these bubbles) and so it wouldn't be affected by Deionized. Much like ideas 2 and 3 the goal here is to give us the versatility to react to many targets being hurt, or just a few. Use it on the whole group, everyone gets a moderate absorb shield on them to help mitigate incoming raid damage. Use it on half the group, and they'll get the shielding plus a lil extra. Or you can drop it on the tank, and for the next 10 sec your tank will have a reoccurring shield put on them to keep them alive while you and your other healer work to get them stabilized. No matter how many targets there are, it's never a waste to cast Revivification, which is how it should be.

So those are my ideas for the kind of changes Corruption could use in order to be a more desirable healer. Lemme know what you guys think should be changed instead of what the devs have planned.

peredupanloup's Avatar


peredupanloup
03.29.2020 , 06:01 AM | #192
Tactical Item: Storm's Succor / Metaphysical Mender (formerly Storm's Succor) has been redesigned - now each charge of Energized / Empowered (formerly Energized) reduces the Force Volt Rush / Telekinetic Blitz consumes by 30%, and the healing component of Volt Rush / Telekinetic Blitz is a smart heal with a 20-meter range from the target with roughly 56% more healing

The change is welcome, but i think you can improve this tactical for true new playstyle.
Rather than "smart heal with a 20-meter range from the target" it would be more interesting "heal allies affected by your Force-imbalanced debuff".
Thereby, you can control your heal and choose between heal a single target or multiple. Moreover, as pointed out in the previous message, the aoe healing of the inquisitor/consular will be improve ; but this improve is not a reactive healing, because you need to anticipate de damage spike by putting multiple shield on you allies.

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
04.03.2020 , 04:57 PM | #193
Quote:
Madness / Balance

Disintegration / Critical Kinesis critical chance bonus increased from 5% to 15%
Fulminating Current / Psychokinetic Torrent critical chance bonus given per stack increased from 2% to 3%
These buffs are laughable compared to how much Madness will lose from Gathering Storm nerf...

If you don't re-work your Gathering Storm changes or give Madness more buffs (or, a crazy thought, give it a legit set bonus and not something that was clearly designed with Lightning in mind), we will see about 500-700 DPS difference between the last and second to last DPS specs... You guys have not dropped ANY spec THAT low in any of your balancing changes over the last few years.

I hope you did some math and/or reviewed feedback from people who parsed on PTS and more buffs for Madness are coming.

DarthEndonae's Avatar


DarthEndonae
04.09.2020 , 09:22 AM | #194
Can you make a QOL change to the 4-piece for Gathering Storm and make it so the 20% damage increase only applies to Thundering Blast and either Death Field or Force Leech? The current implementation causes annoying problems in both specs when we're already supposed to use it on those abilities as often as possible.

There are two big issues in Lightning that make it ridiculously difficult to use on Thundering Blast: travel time and forks. Thundering Blast has an incredibly slow travel time next to the Lightning attacks, making it so that the Galvanized proc will usually get consumed on Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt (which will always be instant), Lightning Flash, or Shock. It can also get consumed on Forked Lightning. I can't tell you how many times I've casted a Lightning Bolt right before using Force Speed and casting Thundering Blast only to have a fork from Lightning Bolt trigger halfway through the cast of Lightning Bolt, only to see the Galvanized buff disappear.

In Madness, the issue is less about travel time since the things you use it on are preceded by DoTs which can't consume it, but there is a synchronization issue since Force Speed is not affected by Alacrity. A single rotation is only 15 seconds, so without Alacrity, everything would be fine since that's the same duration as the cooldown of Force Speed (with the utility). In order to combat this desynchronization, Force Speed has to be activated before both DoTs so that you have a long time before Force Speed gets so desynchronized that it's coming off cooldown after Force Leech is used. Generally, this ends up happening on the cycle before Polarity Shift becomes available, so you have to skip using it for one cycle or use Force Barrier to reset it, neither of which should be necessary.

Making it so that the Galvanized proc only applies to Thundering Blast, and either Death Field or Force Leech would completely alleviate these issues. It wouldn't really change how players use the set bonus, since they're already using Force Speed on cooldown and on those specific abilities. It would make it a little easier since you wouldn't have to time it as closely, but I think using the set bonus is already hard enough since you have to give up using Force Speed for mobility purposes in order to make use of the set bonus. A lot of other set bonuses and tactical items make things easier for other specs too. For example, there are far less specs now that have to worry about using the strong filler vs the weak one since they just always get to use the strong one since energy management is made easier.

EmperorRus's Avatar


EmperorRus
04.10.2020 , 09:21 PM | #195
There is no point in feedback. Bioware doesn't listen to the community.

Gundam-Hyuga's Avatar


Gundam-Hyuga
04.11.2020 , 07:48 AM | #196
Sin DPS getting nerfed to the ground again, just like in every expac, nice.

Deception = Burst traded against, at best, less mediocre sustain than now.
In PVP: Going from op in arenas to useless. You are not tanky enough for your sustain to be of any use. PT AP perma burst lolololololololol
In PVE: It was ok, it will come back to utterly useless as the increase of sustain DPS will not make it better than any other melee DPS.

Hatred = Way too weak over 30%, the dot spread on Severing Slash is a joke, just like the ability itself. Still sooooooooo squishy, both in PVE and PVP. it's good in AOE. Not so much anymore in 6.X compared to the rest. The self heals are anecdotic at best

To sum up you just make it the worst melee DPS both in PVE and in PVP. In a raid any other melee is better. It doesn't reflect damage or rebounder like PT, it doesn't have a raid buff like Operative or Mara, it doesn't have a raid wide speed boost/snare cleanse like Mara again and even a Jugg does more dps.
So most of these classes, except Jugg is much more useful to a raid and dish out way much more DPS than Sin.
In late 5.X you said regarding DPS output you wanted : Melee DOT > Melee Burst > Range DOT > Range Burst.
Even Burst Sorc and DOT Sniper hit harder than a Sin DPS.

As for the Maul spam in PVP, there is a solution without changing the set bonus.; just make Maul only usable from behind again and only usable under duplicity buff. I think the spec would remain bursty as it's intended to be without being OP like it is now, and it wouldn't kill the spec in PVE.

Another nerf after the loss of Phase Walk, the loss of 30% damage reduction while stunned, DPS nerf in 5.X, Phantom Stride not out of GCD anymore, a new nerf now, whereas it has never been top tier DPS in PVE , just for a few months in PVP in this expac with only one spec... Why do you hate this class so much as DPS ?
Coppy pates of a message early on on the thread--all of these changes are my thoughts exactly. I came back to the game happy about playing with my sin again--subscribed--have since bought at least 100 bucks woth of cartel coins and wanted to invest in the game only to have this nerf affecting my PVE game-play. I dont PVP, and don't care about PVP--make the nerf PVP only or else you will have lost one subscriber

EmperorRus's Avatar


EmperorRus
04.11.2020 , 09:17 AM | #197
Quote:
In late 5.X you said regarding DPS output you wanted : Melee DOT > Melee Burst > Range DOT > Range Burst.
Well, actually - Melee DOT > Melee Burst = Range DOT > Range Burst

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Melee Sustained Damage Dealers (up to +5% of target DPS)
  • Annihilation Marauder / Watchman Sentinel
  • Hatred Assassin / Serenity Shadow
  • Lethality Operative / Ruffian Scoundrel
  • Pyrotech Powertech / Plasmatech Vanguard
  • Vengeance Juggernaut / Vigilance Guardian

Melee Quasi-Burst Damage Dealer (up to +2.5% of target DPS)
  • Fury Marauder / Concentration Sentinel

Melee Burst/Ranged Sustained Damage Dealers (at the target DPS)
  • Advanced Prototype Powertech / Tactics Vanguard
  • Carnage Marauder / Combat Sentinel
  • Concealment Operative / Scrapper Scoundrel
  • Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow
  • Engineering Sniper / Saboteur Gunslinger
  • Innovative Ordnance Mercenary / Assault Specialist Commando
  • Madness Sorcerer / Balance Sage
  • Rage Juggernaut / Focus Guardian

Ranged Quasi-Sustained Damage Dealer (down to -2.5% of target DPS)
  • Virulence Sniper / Dirty Fighting Gunslinger

Ranged Burst Damage Dealers (down to -5% of target DPS)
  • Arsenal Mercenary / Gunnery Command
  • Lightning Sorcerer / Telekinetics Sage
  • Marksmanship Sniper / Sharpshooter Gunslinger

DzastinBiberi's Avatar


DzastinBiberi
04.11.2020 , 10:35 PM | #198
Sins are gonna be a joke after this patch.

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
04.12.2020 , 01:31 AM | #199
I really havn't been playing any current content for long enough to warrant a very highly valued opinion here..

But from everything I can tell, I see a lot of people screaming bloody murder over the Shadow/Sin changes while really.. its just 2 autocrits less that you get. You just can't global people anymore, and you shouldn't have been able to in the first place. The sky is, in fact, not falling.
Evolixe | Exilove
Darth Malgus
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ohshutup's Avatar


ohshutup
04.12.2020 , 02:31 AM | #200
dear devs,
please reduce the size of your nerf hammer do it incrementally to see the effects and finding golden spot, sins getting useless in pvp as it cant sustain long enough. I can make a suggestion, make it 2 maul, or increase the crit chance of following 2 mauls after first %100 one to put some rng spice there.
You have asked our opinion, this changes makes sin from OP to useless as someone stated before.