i just came back to the game after about a year and decided to jump back in to gsf to see if it had gotten better. after being away for so long, i think i have a pretty good objective perspective on these things, and why they are unfair.

 

bombers largely don't have to rely on the human error factor. they drop mines that are controlled by an AI. they never miss. they know whenever anything gets within range. basically... a bomber pilot really doesn't have to do anything but sit next to a sat. drop his mines, and let the computer do the work for him. and for that he gets his stats padded. his damage and kill count are being wracked up by an artificial intelligence that never gets a twitchy finger, or can't press tab or r fast enough.

 

the AI should be retooled to make the mines act more like a companion on the ground game. they only shoot at what the pilot tells them to shoot at, or whatever attacks it. as long as bombers remain how they are, the are quite simply put, overpowered as node guards.

A GS with ion aoe, bomber with cp, and scout with emp can all clear the mines fairly easily.

A GS with ion aoe, bomber with cp, and scout with emp can all clear the mines fairly easily.

 

doesn't address the underlying issue, which is that the bomber pilot is riding the game's AI, not having to target anything. just drop mines and wait.

This may be a long shot, but I'm starting to get the feeling that you don't know how to beat bombers...

 

Rather than complaining about how they're inherently unfair 'aka fulfilling their role' why not ask around to see how to beat them? there are pretty standard tactics across the board on how to deal with them so hopefully your experience against them will improve =]

Edited June 30, 2015 by Archonitek

This may be a long shot, but I'm starting to get the feeling that you don't know how to beat bombers...

 

Rather than complaining about how they're inherently unfair 'aka fulfilling their role' why not ask around to see how to beat them? there are pretty standard tactics across the board on how to deal with them so hopefully your experience against them will improve =]

 

i know they can be killed. i've killed em. it still doesn't address the fact that a bomber pilot just has to drop his mines and let the AI do all the work for him.

Bomber Strenghts:

 

 

Mine bomber:

• melee range
  
• ambushing
  
• utility
  
• tanky
  
• hyperspace beacon
  

 

Drone bomber:

• Sentry Drones
  
• Repair Drones
  
• Seeker mines OR rockets
  
• Tanky
  
• Utility
  

 

 

Bomber Weaknesses:

 

 

• Cooldown times (Drone bombers have to wait 1 min to lay new drones after last was deployed.)
  
• Speed = slow
  
• Turn Rate = slower
  
• Lack of forward facing teeth
  
• Low engine power pool
  
• Cover dependant
  
• Situational
  

 

 

 

Ways to kill bombers:

 

 

 

Weapons:

• EMP rocket
  
• Ion Rocket
  
• Conc Rocket
  
• Quads N Pods
  
• Cluster spam
  
• BLC TT melt
  
• Ptorp lock
  
• Heavies
  
• Ion Railgun
  
• Slug Railgun
  
• Plasma Railgun
  
• Thermite rocket
  
• Bypass
  
• Any DoT
  
• All mines excluding seeker
  

 

Tactics:

• Approach from above
  
• Approach from below
  
• Range control
  
• Ion spam
  
• EMP spam
  
• Team focus
  
• Ignore them*
  

 

(*They are area denial specialist, don't approach they area they are denying. Attack a different satilite, or pick off stragglers in TDM)

 

And the list can continue for days.

And in no way do bomber pilots just drop their stuff and let the AI take care of everything. Bombers are required to dogfight still, or use their situational awareness to determine when, where, and what to lay. Catch a bomber without their cooldowns, they can't just "give up." they have to outfly you - in a slower, less turny ship, for upwards of over a minute (which is a long time in GSF) until they can again lay their drones. Mines have 10+ second cooldowns.

 

If a bomber just let their AI do all the work, that bomber is a dead bomber, a dead bomber is a useless bomber, a useless bomber doesn't get complaints.

[...]. they never miss. [...]

http://i.imgur.com/kUNHuXf.jpg

 

Edit: For those who haven't memorized the interface and don't speak german: 100% hit, 3 hits, 0 misses, 0 damage.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Danalon

honestly i think if the tier 3 strike fighter or scout had a component that worked like flares vs heatseeking missile, bombers wouldn't be so bad. if there was something we could drop that would force the rail gun mine, seeker mine or whatever else to focus on it, instead of you, that would actually balance bombers out, immensely. but as it stands right now, it's just too dangerous for a strike or a scout to get close enough to the bomber to do anything.

honestly i think if the tier 3 strike fighter or scout had a component that worked like flares vs heatseeking missile, bombers wouldn't be so bad. if there was something we could drop that would force the rail gun mine, seeker mine or whatever else to focus on it, instead of you, that would actually balance bombers out, immensely. but as it stands right now, it's just too dangerous for a strike or a scout to get close enough to the bomber to do anything.

 

Thats what makes bombers balanced. t2 scouts are utterly invincible in the right hands. as in they EASILY get over 25 kills and zero deaths in matches where there are no bombers. Bombers are the only thing that keeps the t2 scout balanced.

Edited June 30, 2015 by CommanderKiko

Thats what makes bombers balanced. t2 scouts are utterly invincible in the right hands. as in they EASILY get over 25 kills and zero deaths in matches where there are no bombers. Bombers are the only thing that keeps the t2 scout balanced.

 

and that would be fine if it wasn't for the domination factor in the metagame. as long as the mechanic for capping a node is proximity, a ship specifically designed to keep other ships away from it needs a hard counter.

 

T2 scout's pretty tough. when i first got mine on my shadow, i went on a gunship killing rampage for like the whole first week i had it (before bombers were added). objectives? screw that... there's a gunship that needs farmed. that being said, the T2 strike is pretty good vs T2 scout, imo.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Telos

a ship specifically designed to keep other ships away from it needs a hard counter.

 

Gunships are their hard counter, especially with ion AoE, especially when the bomber is defending a satilite

 

T2 strike is pretty good vs T2 scout, imo.

 

Lol no. Lack of engine power pool and lock times are weaknesses of the t2 strike

 

Add in the strengths of the t2 scout being evasion, Distortion Feild (which adds another lock break PLUS evasion) quick turning, a larger engine power pool, and their teeth. The t2 strike gets rekt by a t2 scout - even if the striker is somewhat more skilled than the scout.

and that would be fine if it wasn't for the domination factor in the metagame. as long as the mechanic for capping a node is proximity, a ship specifically designed to keep other ships away from it needs a hard counter.

The T1 gunship is a hard counter to bombers. Ion rail (especially with AoE) can slow them, deplete their shields, destroy their munitions, weaken them for a slug shot that their charged plating can't stop the damage from. What more do you want? It helps if your team offers even a little bit of effective fire when dislodging bombers. It's a team game, one vs. one ship matchups are not what you should look at. Bombers are only imbalanced against teams of inexperienced pilots who don't know what they are doing.

 

that being said, the T2 strike is pretty good vs T2 scout, imo.

No, it's not. It used to be much better, back ages ago, but these days the T2 strike is not a ship that can be used in a serious match. It lacks the mobility, the firepower, the--- you know, there's a whole big thread on strike fighter changes you could look at, but you might need to reassess your opinion.

 

Despon

and that would be fine if it wasn't for the domination factor in the metagame. as long as the mechanic for capping a node is proximity, a ship specifically designed to keep other ships away from it needs a hard counter.

 

Ion Rail + some melee fighter usually do the trick. Depending on the number of bombers you might need to bring in more rails or melees.

Another option is to bring a bomber yourself + any support to kill the other bomber.

If someone is willing to soak the mines (that person should preferably have charged plating) any two ships can kill a single bomber.

 

the T2 strike is pretty good vs T2 scout, imo.

no.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Danalon

If someone is willing to soak the mines (that person should preferably have charged plating) any two ships can kill a single bomber.

 

any two ships can handle any one bomber and it's support* if approached properly.

honestly i think if the tier 3 strike fighter or scout had a component that worked like flares vs heatseeking missile, bombers wouldn't be so bad. if there was something we could drop that would force the rail gun mine, seeker mine or whatever else to focus on it, instead of you, that would actually balance bombers out, immensely. but as it stands right now, it's just too dangerous for a strike or a scout to get close enough to the bomber to do anything.

 

Congratulations, you have just wished for EMP Missiles and EMP Field. They destroy mines in their radius, disable turrets for 15 seconds, and even make it so the bomber can't redeploy a drone (or one of his two mines) for that duration. Those components are, in fact, even more effective than what you wished for.

 

And you know why they're not used?

1) T1 Gunships can just spam Ion AoE, removing the need for anyone else to run a specialised component to clear mines and drones.

2) If you take a more generally useful build with armour penetration, you can just kill the bomber, removing all his stuff from play, without having to take a specialised component.

3) You can take a Charged Plating build yourself and just laugh at the mines and drones, which will be unable to harm you.

 

Of course, I predict that now that counters to bombers have been listed, you'll circle back to your argument about AI and going AFK, despite the fact that no semi-competent bomber would ever play that way and the terribads that do just get farmed by anyone who knows how to play.

 

the T2 strike is pretty good vs T2 scout, imo.

The T2 Strike is the single worst ship in the game, bar none, currently. Actually, the only thing it isn't utterly terrible at is...killing bombers.

Edited June 30, 2015 by MiaowZedong

 

 

The T2 Strike is the single worst ship in the game, bar none, currently. Actually, the only thing it isn't utterly terrible at is...killing bombers.

 

granted, this is my first week back after a long absence, but the T2 strike used to be mean as hell.

 

i'll check out the emp missiles. are they worth anything besides node clearing?

granted, this is my first week back after a long absence, but the T2 strike used to be mean as hell.

 

i'll check out the emp missiles. are they worth anything besides node clearing?

 

No, that's why they don't get much use. Too specialised and not even better at their specialty than Ion AoE spam.

 

Ion spam is really really strong in general, though. I think it's a matter of some consensus that if nerfs were coming, it should be one of the things hit.

Edited June 30, 2015 by MiaowZedong

granted, this is my first week back after a long absence, but the T2 strike used to be mean as hell.

 

i'll check out the emp missiles. are they worth anything besides node clearing?

 

They used to be all right, now they are garbage. They were NEVER a good counter for a good scout. Sure against bad scout pilots who leaned on 10 second barrel roll CD's they were good, but against a good scout they had about as much teeth as they do now... which is still none. At least they USED to be able to run from a scout better... now they cant even do that.

This may be a long shot, but I'm starting to get the feeling that you don't know how to beat bombers...

 

Rather than complaining about how they're inherently unfair 'aka fulfilling their role' why not ask around to see how to beat them? there are pretty standard tactics across the board on how to deal with them so hopefully your experience against them will improve =]

 

^This. So much this.

 

That's why I reject community norms on ticking. You don't need unwritten rules, if you can counter/answer with an exploded bomber.

T1 bomber doesn't have any autofire weapons. To be effective against good players you need to time it so that you drop mines right on top of them or in their flight path. It actually takes a lot of practice and skill, especially when you're trying to LoS a GS while doing it.

 

 

Easy ways to kill bombers alone:

 

T1 GS with Ion Railgun (snare or debuff) is a super hard counter to bombers. If the bomber is smart enough to LoS you after you land the ion, you can change your angle and hit him with another railgun or you can even fly in and finish him off with BLC since his engines are nil. You have enough armor to eat a mine or 2.

 

T3 GS with Slug Railgun and Interdiction Missile is also super effective. Shoot him with Slugs until he LoS, then chase him down with BLC/Interdiction to finish him.

 

T2 Battlescout with TT/BLC/pods/concentrated fire is super effective too. Go under the sat, kill his mines from a safe distance with pods, then charge in and pop your cooldowns. 2-3 BLC shots should take him down.

 

T1 or T2 Scout with TT/Laser/Pod/Range capacitors - go under the node and shoot upwards from a safe distance.

 

T1 Bomber with Charged Plating/Interdiction Mines/Seismic Mines/HLC - pop your Charged Plating, and then rush in and try to drop an Interdiction Mine on him. Once he is slowed, you can finish him with HLC. This is the least risky option and has the benefit of being able to actually hold the node well against future incoming bombers.

 

 

 

 

The T1/T2 Strike and T3 Bomber with HLC (armor ignore and shield piercing) and frequency capacitors work quite well against bombers as well.

Edited June 30, 2015 by RickDagles

Ugh.. You come back to GSF and make threads about stuff people have already discussed a thousand times.

 

You're entitled to your opinion about bombers, and I certainly have my own. But really the bottomline is: If you're skilled at playing GSF then bombers aren't hard to deal with, sure you may think it's unfair that less skilled players can just play bomber and do relatively well (but that's really not the case if you're good at Scout for example).

 

So yeah, like in some other recent thread: It's a learn to play issue.

doesn't address the underlying issue, which is that the bomber pilot is riding the game's AI, not having to target anything. just drop mines and wait.

 

this is what i do it rules

this is what i do it rules

 

It only "rules" against bad players that don't know how to beat it. Against good players you are a free kill.

 

Bombers - low skill floor, super high skill ceiling

Gunships - medium skill floor, high skill ceiling

Scouts - high skill floor, high skill ceiling

Bombers - low skill floor, super high skill ceiling

Gunships - medium skill floor, high skill ceiling

Scouts - high skill floor, high skill ceiling

 

I would go as far as to say that bombers are the easiest ship class to learn, and the hardest to ace with.