I have been playing MMOs for close to 15 years now and have gotten deeply involved in several of their crafting systems. All the crafting systems I have played have their positive and negative points. But what is positive to one player might be negative to another.

So I ask this question in all seriousness: what is it that you like and dislike about the crew skills system in SWTOR? And please qualify your answers; explain WHY you like or dislike something (and do not just say, "because it sux" because that is not a qualification: why does it suck?)

What I like is:

- the crafting and mission queues: the fact that companions do all the work pleases me greatly for two reasons:

1. While I am signed on I can play the game while my companions gather materials and/or craft stuff; I do not have to stand around and craft or "farm" materials in the field.
   
2. And when I am about to logoff I can send my companions off to gather materials and craft stuff so when I log back on it's all there waiting for me.
   

- the fact that most of the schematics are trained/easily acquired and not found: It may sound funny but I like the fact that anyone can learn all the desirable schematics via trainer and/or reverse engineering and/or the randomly generated schematics are common enough that they are readily available on the GTN (augments I am looking at you ). It is simply a matter of the player deciding to put in the resources

- the fact that ALL the basic materials are easy to acquire: again all a player has to do is put in the resources to acquire them.

- the fact that ALL the more "exotic" materials take some effort to acquire: whether it's acquiring enough credits to buy the materials from someone else or doing content oneself, special materials are not easy to acquire.

In short, the ease with which one can jump into the crew skill system, makes me .

What I do not like is:

- the disorganized crafting window: yes there are work-arounds and with a little knowledge it is not terribly difficult to locate a specific schematic among hundreds, but a better (schematic tree) interface and/or more filters and/or a text search parameter would be appreciated.

What I am OK with (but would not be adverse to seeing changed) is:

- the mission selection options: I have said it many times that as a subscriber with each character having three crew skills, it is not hard to find enough missions and crafting to avoid the relog dance. But to know I could do the missions I want to do (AKA the Rich quality missions) whenever I log in would be appreciated.

I wish end-game applicability of crew skills was more balanced.

Please elaborate. What do you mean by "more balanced?" That phrase can mean any number of different things to different people.

Most of the crew skill system is okay with me but the one major thing I wish they would change

Is when you make the clothing (syn or armormech) I wish there was a way to make things a different color when crafting (without adding the dyes) and that there was a variety of colors that you could choose from.

Be nice if they did something to make some of the crafting skills not so worthless. They can make some credits, even pretty good amounts once you are 450 with the right schematics. Some of them till then though are just huge money sinks. Such as low level crystals, green and blue pieces of armor and green and blue weapons. Can mostly thank the ease of getting orange items + mods to that, and the cartel market crystals that you can ride from 10-55.

My hopes are they will add schematics for the strong holds to the crafts that are currently lacking to give them a boost in the useful department.

I do enjoy how it is done with the companions, it is something new to me, and I have played a lot of MMOs. Maybe a better way to customize the ship droid for crafting would be pretty nice. Right now his choice in sensor units isn't really that great.

We all know a better RE chance would be nice

When you released HK compagnion its difficult to keep him up to gear, cause every armor mods has to be crafted.

I understand there should be some limitations, but they should add to the Legs, Pants, Body, ... a armor piece that you can use those too in one type of Droid part, like, Motor, Parts, ...

Please elaborate. What do you mean by "more balanced?" That phrase can mean any number of different things to different people.

I dislike that my non Bio crew skills have no real use outside of crafting augments.

There is a lot to like.

Dislikes:

SWTOR, like most MMOs, really favors raiders(oppers?) for the crafting. Raiders/PvPers should get the rare and valuable materials as rewards. But being able to craft the gear is something that has far more appeal to the crafters than many raiders. Some are interested and excel at both but frequently people who craft are not that into ops and vice versa.

I wish crafting provided more of an alternative progression and gameplay for customers not into operations.

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I understand the economic reasons why you can't queue up hundreds of crew missions. But even on my 60mbps, 16GB RAM, 2x2GB VRAM, SSD machine logging off one character and onto another is frustratingly slow. So I would like to be able to send alt's crew out while I am on without having to log out then onto alt then out then back onto main. Or an iPad app, even if it only worked when I was logged into the game on PC (if you are worried about inflation from extra crew missions from people at work/school.)

i like the que system in crafting..sometimes i desire to que gathering aswell but i see why it's not possible, and leaving comps at work is awesome.

i like how schematics work and the REing to get improved items or reusable or endgame schematics, even if raiders are a bit advantaged from the drops..you should be able to RE comms implants etc.

i don't like not being able to find on the field rare mats..levelled 11 chars and all the crew skills,it happened only once to not be ages behind craft and gathering, with the mission crew skill(UW trading, investigation etc.).

i want the pvp shells back..i cannot find how to craft like i used to do with EWH or BM

i want pvp crystals..i can be dumb but i cannot find how to craft them.

I dislike that my non Bio crew skills have no real use outside of crafting augments.

OK so you are concerned about the number of "desirable" crafted items per crafting skill. I get that. However in my experience, most MMOs have the same "problem;" not every crafting skill has the same number of desirable items and some by a wide margin; and not all crafted items are desirable. So I guess I am just used to it and have adapted.

Furthermore, those augments are VERY desirable and profitable, so I do not care if the crafting skills are unbalanced with respect to number of desirable items. Sometimes less is more.

i want pvp crystals..i can be dumb but i cannot find how to craft them.

PvP vendor next to the terminal sells some schematics.

I wish there were a way to differentiate the stuff you made or gathered, other than price.

This was the coolest thing about SWG, early on. Raw materials had attributes and different spawns had different levels of each. Those attributes impacted the quality of the things made from them.

The expert crafter who put time into learning the system could create items of significantly greater quality than the lazy crafter who barely tried.

In this game, we gather or mission up materials, we make stuff, we post for a bit less than the prices we see posted currently, and we hope that someone wants to buy before the next seller comes along and undercuts us. That's not challenging or fun or rewarding.

I am not a pvp or raid player. And I understand that limits me in a pvp game. Being able to craft gear is quite a feature. I can do this without being in a group or running quests. The way it is sold it is a very complex thing to master. The way it is sold a player character has to be matched to the right crew skill to get the best use of companions. The way it is sold you can get the best rate of success from gathering by giving your companions gifts.

However after doing all that with my four main crafters I find out all that enhancement stuff is not really in the game. I have seen other posters refer to that as being broken and not going to be fixed. That is just swell.

The drop rate for materials is low. I am an older fella and this is not my first game. I understand grind. Grind is not the word I use when I am trying to get materials. The fun aspect is becoming less and less with this game. I know my options and I will chose one someday.

There is a lot to like.

...

I wish crafting provided more of an alternative progression and gameplay for customers not into operations.

 

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logging off one character and onto another is frustratingly slow.

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This.

I would love to see something ACTIVE for crafters. Some way to challenge solo players... via crafting... to enable them to craft really valueable stuff without raiding. Like... solo instance mission that can be found with the support-skill for the crafting skill. Not easy... max 2 player instances that can be reached with the player ship...

"Coordinates of the derelict Smugglers ship" -> gp there and ... fight some Pirates... and get some Items that you can then 'imbue' on stuff to increase it's itemlevel? (i.e.).

"Lost ruins of Nada Is'There" .... go and fight the sithspawn for sithspawn-hearts.

"Stardust-Cloud" ... minerals

And so on...

So you have to spend some time and effort as a PLAYER to actually build the awesome stuff. And to use the ship and to play the character and use the crew-skills.

To really make it an alternative it would have to put the raiding on cooldown, though. The missions... And be put on Cooldown by raiding... (but NOT running the missions themselves!).

Overall, I've had good experiences with the crafting system, and have participated in all of the crafts. My likes are many. I only have one real complaint about the system. Which is the way it mangles the organization of artifact grade items other than the item mods.

As far as improvements to the system I would like to see...

1) more orange modable recipes for armstech, armormech, artifice, and synth ~ it's been too long, and there havn't been enough updates.

2) more of the oddball mats from hardmodes & ops available for direct purchase with comms, a la the way baradium flux is sold. The price of those mats on the GTN shouldn't be controlled by how many people are raiding.

3) cybertech get a variety of new speeders added.

Oh, I noticed something I'd LOVE to see changed (besides the "logging through all your alts faster than the loading allows"):

The craftting windows should:

a) remember their settings (i.e. sort by level)

b) have filters for min level - max level, name

c) have a preview rendered

d) get the materials from the soon-to-be-legacy bank

I have no real beefs with the system as it is, although as a poster above mentioned, it is a little awkward, and sometimes searching by level and sending multiple alts comps on missions to craft a bunch of mods, implants, hilts, barrels and crystals can involve a big sheet of paper and a few hours of faffing about logging in/out etc.

I would really like to see missions along the lines of the GSI ones that involve seeking out rare/unusual schematics and rare mats for crafting. It could be a new faction called the Tinkerers, a set of Jawas who have hidden their inventions across the galaxy where they await discovery by the eager agents of the republic and empire!

I'd also like to have a much higher RE rate on garbage levelling crafted items, even if it was balanced with a reduced rate on blues (green- 40% to Blue 10% for example), just to enable us to recoup a little cash along the way.

I have no real beefs with the system as it is, although as a poster above mentioned, it is a little awkward, and sometimes searching by level and sending multiple alts comps on missions to craft a bunch of mods, implants, hilts, barrels and crystals can involve a big sheet of paper and a few hours of faffing about logging in/out etc.

 

I would really like to see missions along the lines of the GSI ones that involve seeking out rare/unusual schematics and rare mats for crafting. It could be a new faction called the Tinkerers, a set of Jawas who have hidden their inventions across the galaxy where they await discovery by the eager agents of the republic and empire!

 

I'd also like to have a much higher RE rate on garbage levelling crafted items, even if it was balanced with a reduced rate on blues (green- 40% to Blue 10% for example), just to enable us to recoup a little cash along the way.

And this is why no current MMO will ever please everyone...

I cringe at the remotest possibility of the highlighted happening. I did some of the GSI BS (that's right Bullsh**) on one character, thought "finally, finally, finally, this is over." but nuh-uh...I got three more quest on three other planets...I stopped right then and there and SWORE I would never touch that BS again. The Macro-binocular quest in the Rakghoul area was the one I dreaded the most (I spent more time on that one quest than the others combined most days). I would HATE it if ay truly desirable schematic had to be grinded in that way.

I'd also like to have a much higher RE rate on garbage levelling crafted items, even if it was balanced with a reduced rate on blues (green- 40% to Blue 10% for example), just to enable us to recoup a little cash along the way.

It acutally is balanced @ 20% for Green -> Blue & 20% Blue -> Purple when Reing Mods (hilts, crystals, Armorings, etc) & Low level gear (I think lvl 35 >). But for the higher leveled gear (again i think it is lvl 35<) the percentage is 20% Green -> Blue & 10% Blue -> Purple.

However, to Psandak's question:

What i like about crew skills is being able to have something to do w/ my Comps that I am not traveling w/ rather than just having them squating on my ship. Also, I LOVE being able to equip my alts & comps that i am still leveling w/ far superior gear that i crafted than they can get via drops or mods bought by vendors.

With that being said, the biggest dislike i have is w/ the # of schematics that start out Blue & you need a lot of Purple RE's (I'm looking are you Cybertech - Droid parts & Biochem - Implants) compared to the low rate of "drops" for purple mats when doing crew skills. It is an epic task piled under a mountain of frustration that makes end game crafting look simple, easy & quick. And although it as been said multiple times before in this thread I will add that having the crafting windows not reset everytime I change an instance would be great! It is maddening having to keep switching to sort by level 25 times a game b/c I am in & out of warzones, or my ship, Flashpoints, etc.

Like the OP I have been playing MMO's for years, at the risk of dating myself, I was a beta tester for Ultima On-line... /Facepalm

Anyhow, since 99% of MMO's tend to get borring for me by endgame, I have since sunk my teeth into the crafting systems contained in all of them, and again like the OP, have seen some awesome things, and some downright horrible things.

What I like about SWtoR crafting:

The overall Diversity of the crafts, many MMO's are "Simple" systems with a "Weaponsmith", and "Armorsmith", and an "Other" Smith. and then you also need(ed) another toon just for a specialized gatherer, that fact that your chosen "Smith" can also gather what he/she/it needs is a godssend to me. (yes I intentially used 2 s's) ...

What I dont like in SWtoR crafting:

The RE'ing system needs a serious overhaul in my opinion. let me elaborate. If I can build a saber out of some scraps of crystals, and bits of minerals, why is it, when I take it apart I only get a partial % of the ingredients? ok ok this can be argued, til the cows come home, but still it seems a little wonky IMHO.

Also on the topic of RE'ing, why does my ability to learn a new schematic from RE'ing not go up with my skill? if it becomes "Grey" no skill gain, shouldn't I in essence be a master of making said item? why do I still have a 20% chance? this isnt a huge problem with the "Mod making skills" ((Armorings, barrels, enhancements, mods)) however when you get into the armormech, synthweaving, armsmech, sabercrafting, generator crafting, its a huge headache... why you ask? for each green recipe there is 3 blue recipes, for each blue recipes there are 3 purple recipes... or is it 4? I dont remember, but you can see my point... a 20% chance to learn a new schematic doesnt mean if i make 5 of the item I am guarenteed a new schematic, I have made 20 or 30 of the same item, and not received a new schematic, this gets insanely expensive, and very tiresome when trying to compete with the credit sellers selling a pair of cartel pack gloves for 2,000,000 credits.

Finding the "Rare" schematics, ok its fine if you want to throw in some loot-able "Rare" schematics to give some more meat to the crafting game, but to make some of them "Mission only" obtainable, is a bit Sadistic IMHO, again just like RE'ing, I can run 100 missions and not get a single schematic, then the following day I get 5 of the same schematic, if your going to do this, IMHO you should add "Research Missions" that will net you a schematic, green for a success, blue for a crit, still allowing RE to be useful on said items. Or hell even make it an easter egg hunt, planetary research missions, that cost an ingrediant found from a specific mob, on a specific planet, or in a specific OP.

Overall the crafting system is good in comparison to many of the other MMO's out there, but if they want to make it the best, they need to take a good long look at it, and perhaps even designate a new "Class" to the crafting professions, a re-design of the system adding in more "Reason" to craft aside from "Endgame" only 188 quality mods.

by new class I mean an "Alternate advancement tree"... similar to what expertise does for PvP or even an entirely new skill tree set, that will allow you to specialize in certain aspects of the crafting professions. you choose 1 skill to specialize in, and it allows benefits that someone isnt specialized in can get. IE: Slicing Specialist: skill tree: Lock Box specialist: more credits per lock box, Tech Specialist: more sliced tech parts per mission, System Analyst: hacks information systems to gain new schematics. stuff like this... I dunno maybe its a pipe dream, maybe they will do something similar, but this is my 2 bits, and contains my opinions.

And this is why no current MMO will ever please everyone...

I cringe at the remotest possibility of the highlighted happening. I did some of the GSI BS (that's right Bullsh**) on one character, thought "finally, finally, finally, this is over." but nuh-uh...I got three more quest on three other planets...I stopped right then and there and SWORE I would never touch that BS again. The Macro-binocular quest in the Rakghoul area was the one I dreaded the most (I spent more time on that one quest than the others combined most days). I would HATE it if ay truly desirable schematic had to be grinded in that way.

It'd be opt out obviously.....

I'd go for an additonal crewskill. - once you get to master-crafter Three? Max? Really? I'd not advocate queueing up more than five making missions at a time or more than one gathering mission. But to have a mix and match.... Some scematics need mats from other skills - look at Augment kits for example needing slicing mats. Some synthweaving needs UT metals etc. That wa we could better use out companions to their strengths.

For example. Bounty hunter has MAko for slicing, Blizz for Armstech and Skadge for scavenging. - Then Torian Cadera has Investigation and Bio buffs- Completely useless if you have the first three. Then you swap to another character to take advantage (say bio/bio/diplo) , and they have companions that have unused buffs for the skills you have on the BH.

TL;DR : More crewskills. Not increase gather duration / or number in queue, but at Mastercrafter unlocks all crewskills for all characters in legacy.

The system as it was introduced with RotHC was OK IMO, crafting the lvl 28 mods/armor/enhancements/ears and implants, plus the augments all with schems from the skill trainers or with schems from our slicing missions.

Since then the trainers seems to have retarded, the game has seen the introduction of gear lvl 30, 31, 34 as craftable (34 still being tier 2), but no schematic showed at the trainer. They are 4 tiers behind now. All the schems past 28 must be learned by RE raid drops, stuff bought for coms or on the GTN. Mats still come from raiders (except the iso). That's BS! At least the mats for 30/31 should be available outside of raids.

I understand that we will get to craft furniture, carpets, or toilet seats with the galactic stronghold but that is not progression to my crafting skill (can make some money, but i don't care).

Where do those raid bosses get their 186 gear from? Someone must have crafted it, where is this master crafter fellow?

Why can't we have a "find the master crafter" mission, let's say unlocking when you get your "master craftsman" achievement and then we go on a storyline similar to HK to find him somewhere and then learn new stuff?

I am not crafting leveling gear like mad to take 50 mill and buy 10 34 pieces and pray to the RNG god when RE'ing those.