Hi there,

title says it all. As an scoundre, trying to PVP (warzones) while leveling is broken. I'm not even talking about balance here, ppl says / thinks that balance should be achieved at highest level and gear. I'm talking about fun.

It's utterly impossible to have proper fun as an scoundrel in low level PVP. Here comes why:

Sawbones.

(i) This is what I try:

- pre-hotting myself via Slow-release medpac (to ensure i have a high chance to proc an Upper Hand from the taleng every time the proc cd is up)

- having the first target they may attack hotted with dual stack of SRM.

- assisting enemies which are doing a long cast to start healing their target. That way, supposedly, as soon as their cast ends and they chain it with a channel or another cast and an instant, I'm already healing.

(ii) it doesn't matter how you play, you can't outheal AVERAGE incoming dmg. Your heals only make your target to go down a bit, and seiously only "just a bit", slower.

(iii) 2 sources of dmg in your target make your healing negligible.

(iv) a game were almost every class has an interrupt out of resolve, and one or two stun / leap / knockback / mezz / grab, ending a full cast should be REWARDED. The only reward u get while playing as sawbones is FRUSTRATION =)

(v) low level scoundrel healers have 0 burst heal and 0 damage mitigation. You can't help a partner under 15% hp, because you won't take him over 20% ever. In fact, you may have a great positioning thanks to stealth, but then your heals won't handle the situation. After that, if you use your strongest defensive cd, Disappearing Act, you can't do anything for 10 secs ^^ As a Sawbones Scoundrel, you feel useless.

Scrapper.

Quite simple: you lack single target dmg, have negligible AoE dmg, dmg received is HUGE, and you can't survive long enough to apply some kind of sustained dmg.

First, from 2 Upper Hands you need to use one for Pugnacity, which reduces your burst damage.

Second, when you read Scoundrel's energy management design, you can conclude, WRONGLY, that you should maintain your energy over 60 to be able to fight (as you are totally unable to get out of combat because of a 200 dmg hit from a random AoE), unless you decide to go for some burst. Fact is that no matter if you sacrifice proper energy regeneration -> you DON'T have burst damage. Added to the fact that you don't have proper sustained nor AoE dmg neither, you feel totally useless. Dying to 20% hp targets after popping all your relics/stims/wz medpac and offensive and defensive CDs is just not the definition of joy.

Tbh, I understand there is no balance pre-50. Fact is, pre-50, I want fun, not balance. The fun that those permanent 2200 dmg rockets give to you.

Being balanced at 50 with proper Valor Gear 2 days before you leave the game is <censored>.

Have fun out there!! I just can't ^^

Sefal.

Scoundrel PvP isn't really viable until level 31 for Sawbones and 36 for Scrappers.

Sawbones need Emergency Medpac and its compliment skill to the right in the tree.

Scrappers need Shoot First.

It's unfortunate that you have to wait that long for the class to truly blossom, which is why many people have requested Shoot First be moved to a lower level (24 is the most frequent request for whatever reason). My suggestion if you're going to do PvP under those levels is to use Sab Charge frequently, it's likely your highest damage ability.

Scoundrel PvP isn't really viable until level 31 for Sawbones

 

Sawbones need Emergency Medpac and its compliment skill to the right in the tree.

 

I agree with this. Although sawbones under 30 is viable & decent, once you get Emergency Medpack PvP becomes alot better as a healer.

Man..Ive been loving pvping as I level. I was leveling as a Sawbones up until 31 and I admit it was NOT that fun. Switched to Scrapper and am having a blast. I do just fine also.

Try tossing only 1 dot heal first, followed by a cast heal then insta emergency med pack...that packs a punch. Dont stack 2 dot heals back to back as the first thing you do to someone taking dmg as they will fall fast...it takes to long.

You learn ways around the problems you are having. Don't bother healing someone that is getting focus fire and not burning defensive cooldowns. They will only die a bit slower like you said. Use flash grenade versus packs to slow them down instead.

Defensive cooldowns are how you are losing to enemies at 20% health too, use yours (defense screen, dodge, escape if stunned), snare and kite until their ones are down.

Mostly just play with your team and know going in that their contribution is equal to yours for winning and losing. Don't take losses personally.

Not really sure where you're getting this from. I've been pvp'ing since I was able to and I just hit 47 last week. My damage output hasn't really changed at all with the higher levels and new abilities, only my survivability and tactics. I'm almost always top 3 in damage or overall points for each warzone and not because of abilities, it's dependant on how you use the class skills in conjunction with each other.

As a scrapper you really need to pick your spots. Stealth is the only way you survive period. It's OK to run away. Your burst damage DOES do enough to kill a guy with 20% health left, no matter who the target. In fact I would say that your primary targets should be healers, sorcs and anyone else at sub 50% health. You make yourself useful by protecting nodes and assisting others with their targets.

I can kill two by myself generally now but even if I couldn't you need to know when to run away. Also, someone else said survivability relates to our defensive buffs. That couldn't be more true, defense screen and dodge and using them at the right time is key to any close one on one fights.

Maybe it just doesn't mesh with your playing style and trying another class would be best for you?

Started a scoundrel scrapper and got him 10-14 via 1 Esseles run and the rest pvp on Ajunta Pall. Also have a 42 scrapper on my main server (a PVE one). Plainly put, when I wasn't having fun as a scoundrel, I wasn't playing smart. As a 13-14 scoundrel, I've held off a higher level assassin (who probably didn't play great, but whatevs) in Alderaan, and generally had a good time and even took #2 in damage as a level 11, and alternate between middle of the pack and top 5 in general for damage/kills. I did take armormech and have mixed blues with augments I've made with GTN gear and a health supply of wz medpacs.

I stealth as long as possible open up with backblast if I think I can do so without being knocked back, then (or 1st depending) dirty kick, take instant cover, sabo charge, pistol whip (and backblast if I didn't open with it) and pugnacity, grenade, and the attack that sounds like a shotgun but is a <10?m range blaster attack. Yeah, I'm low on energy at this point, but I've usually taken a non heavy armor wearer down. Now that I think about it, I just picked up cool head and need to start using that instead of regular pew pew (or in addition to). Played so many matches without it, it hasn't kicked in that I have it. Use a good rotation, focus with others on lower health targets, and throw that flash bang if you need to interrupt a heal or stop a crowd in a door on Void Star (or pause folks getting off the east/west speeder in Alderaan). Don't be afraid to be a sacrificial lamb if it keeps the target(s) from capping the objective or distracts them from the ball carrier. Throw some flash bangs or dirty kicks from the edge of the fire pits and take out/weaken that ball carrier and his escort. I've charged into the fire to dirty kick cause I've known that when I kamikaze'd to stun the ball carrier that the ball would go to a team mate. Looking forward to the sleep dart so I can frustrate people who think they're going to hit an objective without firing a shot.

I know I sucked at scoundrel when I wasn't having fun, but after figuring out what's the smart play on my 42, I'm doing surprisingly well as a sub 20. You will die a lot, but you can also do great damage and make a difference in the outcome of warzones. You can even throw a heal or two to a teammate if you can't/shouldn't get in range of his target.

Run and gun baby, just do it smart and don't worry about the odds (too much). I'm having more fun on my 14 scoundrel than i have on my mixed cent/champ geared powertech on my main server.

Scoundrel PvP isn't really viable until level 31 for Sawbones and 36 for Scrappers.

 

Sawbones need Emergency Medpac and its compliment skill to the right in the tree.

 

Scrappers need Shoot First.

 

.

Would even say, Scrapper really becomes a blast at 40, once you get Flechette round, every Warzone before feels crap. But yes, Shoot first really really is a relief, once you get it.

But yes... there IS A Reason, why Smuggler is the least played class, Republic Side... and no one would miss them, if there would not be a 5% Crit Buff. (buth heh, that can be gotten in another way, via Legacy).

And hey, we are OP, if we do the same Damage than other DPS classes...

i just pvp'ed my *** out. I did around 5 quests per planet (not including my story quests) and im on Voss. Valor rank 46 since im 46.

Its been quite enjoyable but under 30, i always had a small doubt in my mind not liking it. I was free point for everyone. I was like ... damn the smuggler is the weakest of all. I started pvp-ing at lvl 10 so just imagine the carnage...

At 40 though its a whole new story. With flechette round and K.O. it is soo much pwning. Today i have been immortal 6 times. I can take a Turret in Civil war with 3 people guarding it.

Be stim , Take pvp buff while coming to the turret, Use relic , use adrenal , put up flechette round and open up on someone, they will feel the pain. Even without all that ,i easily open with a 2.5k shoot first + dot on flechette.

Now im having the time of my life, pwning everything. Be careful though, if you get jumped by alot of people , oyu might not survive. You still need to think and make a small strategy/keep a possible escape plan.

i would say that scrapper pre-36 is ok at pvp (i used the cover skills and was more stationary and used stealth only tactically)

after 36 (and especially after 40) it's a great fun, so if you did not reach that level yet - grind your teeth and try to get there to see it for yourself.

shoot first might be the best skill in the whole game (i love when an enemy runs somewhere and i use 'shoot first' on him, always think in my head something along those lines; "oh, mister, you just tripped, be more careful" or "oh boy, are you alright mister? or maybe a shotgun to your back can help you")

honestly, there is nothing better than to pop out of stealth with 'shoot first', use 'back blast' and 'sucker punch' and pop back to stealth and see those dummies wondering 'hey, why our mate just vaporised???' :-)

and if that's your first action on the warzone then you get 3 medals (killing blow, solo kill and 2.5 hit) :-)

My valor 13 level 15 Scoundrel that I created for the sole purpose of PvPing begs to differ. It is a ton of fun. Sure I die quickly if I get focus fired, but I can put out pretty decent damage too.

Yes sometimes it is frustrating to not have the same tool set that higher level players do, but I see it more as a challenge than a reason to QQ.

Heh, I was in a warzone last night and tried to take down a sorcerer who was healing his team.

I used every tool at my disposal, to include my interrupt, stun, sleep, restealthed to shoot first again, flechette round for dots, and my dots of course. I could not drop him. I was hitting him for about 1 minute each time and I would only disengage when I got Tracer spammed.

This guy would continue healing through my damage, he was not worried about it at all.

I finally took him down, but he was at 1/4 health, and was running away from me. I think he was out of power, cause I cannot think of any other reason for him running.

I have mostly Champion Gear, and for that gear I lack, I have Centurion gear. He was not wearing battlemaster.

We got neutered. While Operatives I hear are hitting for 4k again. But that is hearsay, as I dont have one.

Oh and yes, I used my PvP buff and Relics.

I am a 27 Scrapper and I DESTROY in PVP

I LOVE it.

Especially Void Star & Alderaan. Scrappers are awful ball carriers but that just means you become the ball retriever. Just like in WoW. Sub Rogues were always the best at getting our flag back.

I really hate it when I see L2P posts but this is one. Smugglers and Agents are the hardest classes to play well. You have a lot at your disposal you just have to figure out how to use it.

Perhaps this class isn't for you, Mr. O.P.

. Scrappers are awful ball carriers but that just means you become the ball retriever. Just like in WoW. Sub Rogues were always the best at getting our flag back.

Yup, we are bad carriers. I "sigh" everytime someone passes a ball to me. We are indeed good at retrieving the ball; however I like to treat hutt-ball as a team deathmatch type of gameplay and play accordingly :-)

I really hate it when I see L2P posts but this is one. Smugglers and Agents are the hardest classes to play well. You have a lot at your disposal you just have to figure out how to use it.

I would argue that sentinels/marauders are harder because they need to use a lot more skills to be effective (not talking about combat spec).

we dont carry , we protect and retrieve , thats different.

I can obliterate a carrier in less then 5 sec while neutralizing his/her healers. Once i get the ball, if it was near my goal i reset it (usually, depend on the team) or if we are in middle or toward their goals i might def screen/dodge run it until i find a good person to pass.

Take it like a hot potato in your hands. You need to pass it quick before you get burned

I'd agree with those who say "wait till 40". Though if you're not finding it enjoyable at all now, it just might not be the class for you.

After 40, as scrapper, I feel just absolutely ludicrous in WZs. I haven't been lower than 2nd in the WZ in dmg since I got flechette round, and I'm 1st in 75-80% of them, often outdamaging my closest teammate by 50k+.

Heh, I was in a warzone last night and tried to take down a sorcerer who was healing his team.

 

I used every tool at my disposal, to include my interrupt, stun, sleep, restealthed to shoot first again, flechette round for dots, and my dots of course. I could not drop him. I was hitting him for about 1 minute each time and I would only disengage when I got Tracer spammed.

 

This guy would continue healing through my damage, he was not worried about it at all.

 

I finally took him down, but he was at 1/4 health, and was running away from me. I think he was out of power, cause I cannot think of any other reason for him running.

 

I have mostly Champion Gear, and for that gear I lack, I have Centurion gear. He was not wearing battlemaster.

 

We got neutered. While Operatives I hear are hitting for 4k again. But that is hearsay, as I dont have one.

 

 

Oh and yes, I used my PvP buff and Relics.

Um, you're either doing something wrong, or lying. As far as "hitting for 4k again" there's 2 threads on the first page of this forum where people posted vids of Shoot First critting over 5k, multiple times, post nerf.

EDIT: Then again, good healers are pretty tough to take down. However if that's the case, you're ignoring the 2 other guys on his team the rest of your team was able to take down because the healer had to put 100% of his resources into keeping himself up.

I completely disagree, I have a 50 Powertech and have also played some PvP on a friend's 50 Sorcerer.

Definitely prefer PvP on my low level characters, mainly because the 50s bracket sucks and I don't want to play hours on end to lose repeatedly and never get gear. I think PvP is much more fun on my mid 20s Sage and Mid 10s Scoundrel.

Again, mainly because I am not a fan of the 50s bracket, but I have much more fun on my low levels than I do playing endgame PvP

I have a 20+ Scoundrel.

The OP is right, PVP can be a REAL pain.

I can make it work, but it's tricky.

It is definitely not easy to be significant at this level.

I keep hoping I wake up with Shoot-First each day.

- DH

Hi there,

 

title says it all. As an scoundre, trying to PVP (warzones) while leveling is broken. I'm not even talking about balance here, ppl says / thinks that balance should be achieved at highest level and gear. I'm talking about fun.

pssst, bolster puts you up to lvl '49' when you pvp in the lowbie warzones. hence it is balanced at the highest level

im sorry you dont like to pvp while leveling. i find it a blast.

maybe you just dont like healing in a warzone/in pvp. or maybe you just dont like healing with scoundrels.

I have a 20+ Scoundrel.

 

The OP is right, PVP can be a REAL pain.

I can make it work, but it's tricky.

 

It is definitely not easy to be significant at this level.

 

I keep hoping I wake up with Shoot-First each day.

 

- DH

the magic level 36, when you get shoot first, is a game changer. you actually start becoming a threat in warzones

Um, you're either doing something wrong, or lying. As far as "hitting for 4k again" there's 2 threads on the first page of this forum where people posted vids of Shoot First critting over 5k, multiple times, post nerf.

 

EDIT: Then again, good healers are pretty tough to take down. However if that's the case, you're ignoring the 2 other guys on his team the rest of your team was able to take down because the healer had to put 100% of his resources into keeping himself up.

Sorry man, not lying. I do not care what others have posted as I can only testify to my experience. Perhaps they had battlemaster gear and thumped on someone who just turned 50. I do not crit for 4k post patch, ever.

Actually, I do more damage with pistol whip than I do with shoot first. How crazy is that?

Before I hit 50, I pvp'd in the warzones from level 42 to 49. The only reason I stopped was because I was capped at my valor points at 49. I could not go any further. In that time I found that post 30, the matches got a lot better because I had my damage absorb shield, so my life expectancy went up significantly. While others got their shield at level 14 or so, I get mine 20 levels after them.

Then I hit my 40s. The entire pvp game changed for me. Mind you, I was playing pre-bracket, so I was facing off against level 50s in my warzones up to around level 45. I did very well against people in battlemaster gear. It was as though they magically turned Valor 60 and pvp'd like they were level 10.

Once the big patch happened, there were no more 50s in the warzones. From level 45-49 I dominated. When I say dominated, I mean tore everyone up. I DID hit 4k shoot first during that time. It was actually fun to PvP.

Then 1.1.1 happened. I really resent Bioware in doing this with only a week testing and they never made a change to it. I get all the changes they made except for the Armor Penetration value. I will admit, I did not want to play my scoundrel when this happened.

But I did, and while I was not the monster I was with shoot first, I was still able to take down targets. The Armor Penetration was not really that bad.... until you hit 50.

When you hit 50, everything changes. I had nearly zero survivability, and did crap for damage. I was pretty useless and I was highly agitated. While I leveled up through the warzones I obtained expertise mods from weapons and transferred them over to my orange armor pieces.. but that is not enough. Once I was fitted for Centurion/Champion gear things got a little bit easier. But it is not something like these battlemasters are saying.

I admit I do not play 24/7 and probably put in about 10-15 hours a week on my smuggler now instead of the 40+ hours. I am like valor rank 57 so when I hit battlemaster and start getting the battlemaster gear, maybe things will be different. But that sorcerer was not in BM gear. It looked way to simple and plain and heck it could have been orange.

I wish I had fraps loaded because it was sad that I could not out DPS his heals. Oh and he was healing his team while I was beating on him If only the devs could have used that before making a rash an uneducated decision on the armor penetration changes. Bitter? A little. I still play, but I am still looking for that class to be my main PvE so I can raid with my guild. I love the scoundrel, but Bioware makes it tough love.

Scoundrel PvP isn't really viable until level 31 for Sawbones and 36 for Scrappers.

 

Sawbones need Emergency Medpac and its compliment skill to the right in the tree.

 

Scrappers need Shoot First.

 

It's unfortunate that you have to wait that long for the class to truly blossom, which is why many people have requested Shoot First be moved to a lower level (24 is the most frequent request for whatever reason). My suggestion if you're going to do PvP under those levels is to use Sab Charge frequently, it's likely your highest damage ability.

Quoted as a reminder. Truth lay here.