That Operatives are the lowest DPS'ers in the game. It actually hurt my feelings a bit (sigh). So I wanted to know out of the 8 classes on the Empire side where do Operatives actually rank as far as DPS.?

I would figure pure DPS like Sniper & Marauders are top 1 & 2, but what about the rest of us? Do Ops rank the same as a Sorc who is also a healer/dps or are we further down the list?

If you assume equal gear what do you rank the classes?

That Operatives are the lowest DPS'ers in the game. It actually hurt my feelings a bit (sigh). So I wanted to know out of the 8 classes on the Empire side where do Operatives actually rank as far as DPS.?

 

I would figure pure DPS like Sniper & Marauders are top 1 & 2, but what about the rest of us? Do Ops rank the same as a Sorc who is also a healer/dps or are we further down the list?

 

If you assume equal gear what do you rank the classes?

operatives are #1

and the latest patch was yet another PVE buff

no need to go further into detail tell your raid lead to get out of his hiding hole.

That Operatives are the lowest DPS'ers in the game. It actually hurt my feelings a bit (sigh). So I wanted to know out of the 8 classes on the Empire side where do Operatives actually rank as far as DPS.?

 

I would figure pure DPS like Sniper & Marauders are top 1 & 2, but what about the rest of us? Do Ops rank the same as a Sorc who is also a healer/dps or are we further down the list?

 

If you assume equal gear what do you rank the classes?

Your raid leader is ancient. Operatives are miles ahead other classes as far as PvE dps is concerned. Only Pyrotech mercenaries and Saboteur Gunslingers are on par with them, and both of them are actually glitched.

Your raid leader is ancient. Operatives are miles ahead other classes as far as PvE dps is concerned. Only Pyrotech mercenaries and Saboteur Gunslingers are on par with them, and both of them are actually glitched.

if Pyrotech mercs are actually glitched and not working as intended then Pyro-Powertechs would be worse then any other Class ever was.

if Pyrotech mercs are actually glitched and not working as intended then Pyro-Powertechs would be worse then any other Class ever was.

Mercs and Powertechs are different classes.

Assuming operatives are not working as intended (bare with me) and considering Pyrotech mercs are 300 dps (well out of the 5% intended difference) ahead of the second highest definitely working as intended spec (Combat/carnage) while assault commandos are more in line with the other classes, i'd say it's mercs that are glitched

Mercs and Powertechs are different classes.

 

Assuming operatives are not working as intended (bare with me) and considering Pyrotech mercs are 300 dps (well out of the 5% intended difference) ahead of the second highest definitely working as intended spec (Combat/carnage) while assault commandos are more in line with the other classes, i'd say it's mercs that are glitched

mercs and PTs share the bug that causes Prototype Particle Accelerator to proc with a 100% chance.

(unless you are talking about "offhand proccing the Cell" bug but that accounts for only about 100dps, not really worth mentioning)

operatives are working as intended (there's a 5,3k parse on torparse where the bleeding max hits are 10times the average so there's something bogus but the 4k parses are working as intended)

Juggs are also working as intended afaik and they are close enough to OPS Mercs &co

That Operatives are the lowest DPS'ers in the game. It actually hurt my feelings a bit (sigh). So I wanted to know out of the 8 classes on the Empire side where do Operatives actually rank as far as DPS.?

This thread is the leaderboard for 8-man dps.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=711350

The first post doesn't have a lot of entries, as it's for 2.7 (which recently dropped), but check out the second post. You can see the rankings (per fight) of actual dps done in a real raid environment.

Operatives, as you will see, are JUST FINE, and your raid leader is wrong.

Your raid leader is ancient. Operatives are miles ahead other classes as far as PvE dps is concerned. Only Pyrotech mercenaries and Saboteur Gunslingers are on par with them, and both of them are actually glitched.

Pyro mercs are indeed glitched atm but how are saboteur slingers glitched? If you mean that bioware didn't expected us to use the scatterbombs on bosses thats a different story and definitely not 'glitched'. You can still get good numbers as sab without using the jump+roll glitch. You only need to have a tank with a brain who tanks the targets so that you can wallbang away.

to OP. Operatives were in the past slightly behind (dps difference is only about 10% between highest and lowest parsing classes). If you raidleader is not taking you because of that I would ditch that guild. If goodnamed progression guilds clear content with guardian, shadows and operatives than so should yours ;-)

And yes, Operative dps is now higher after some recent patches which places them around the top (take in mind there;s only a 10% difference or so).

That Operatives are the lowest DPS'ers in the game. It actually hurt my feelings a bit (sigh). So I wanted to know out of the 8 classes on the Empire side where do Operatives actually rank as far as DPS.?

 

I would figure pure DPS like Sniper & Marauders are top 1 & 2, but what about the rest of us? Do Ops rank the same as a Sorc who is also a healer/dps or are we further down the list?

 

If you assume equal gear what do you rank the classes?

Your raid leader is operating on 1.0 information in 2.7. He is an idiot. Operatives are now close to if not THE top DPS in PvE, and recently received a PvE buff to quality of life. Don't be hurt by this tool - laugh instead.

Pyro mercs are indeed glitched atm but how are saboteur slingers glitched? If you mean that bioware didn't expected us to use the scatterbombs on bosses thats a different story and definitely not 'glitched'. You can still get good numbers as sab without using the jump+roll glitch. You only need to have a tank with a brain who tanks the targets so that you can wallbang away.

 

I don't know what it is, but looking at parses and leaderboards it looks like Saboteurs are outperforming by a wide margin (200ish dps) Engineers, which makes me think there's some sort of glitch that makes dual wielders perform better than their mirror counterpart.

Anyway, not all bosses can be tanked in a way to let Saboteurs/Engineers to poop bombs on them without resorting to the jump on the spot glitch (and that is actually a glitch)

I don't know what it is, but looking at parses and leaderboards it looks like Saboteurs are outperforming by a wide margin (200ish dps) Engineers, which makes me think there's some sort of glitch that makes dual wielders perform better than their mirror counterpart.

 

Anyway, not all bosses can be tanked in a way to let Saboteurs/Engineers to poop bombs on them without resorting to the jump on the spot glitch (and that is actually a glitch)

I would say it's due to offhand hits. because Speed Shots and Quick Shot respond to offhand hits.

Your raid leader is an idiot or doesn't like you, choose whichever is better

He is actually a pretty nice guy. His comment was in Teamspeak as i was logging out. I am really working to tighten up my rotation 'faster' although I am thinking about changing to Concealment spec as I have heard it is better ( but not overly so) than Lethality.

PVE elitists are the funniest elitists

It's hard to choose, elitists in general are a barrel of laughs.

Just out of curiousness : Are all Operative trees similar in terms of DPS ?

All are viable but the lower parsing spec needs quite some setup (bad for target switching) wheras the higher parsing spec doesn't need much setup.

At the moment I can't see a reason to play lethality (as an operative that is (scoundrel to be precice)).

Can someone quickly explain how pyro mercs are "glitched"? If this is about the PPA proc being 100% the 2nd time, I always was under the impression that was considered a tooltip problem, not a glitch.

I had overlooked the issue with PPA until it was pointed out to me not too long ago. Now that I have a better grasp of what is happening, let me give it a try explaining it.

2 x Power Shot will proc PPA almost 100% of the time. (I say "almost" because in very very rare occasions I've had to use a third PS to proc it) Unload + Power Shot will proc PPA 100% of the time -- I've never not seen a proc with these two abilities back to back.

The tooltip states that each PS has a 45% to proc, and Unload has a 75% chance. However, the proc chance appears to be calculated "additively" As in 45% + 45% = 90%. And 75% + 45% = 120% chance.

However, this is not actually how RNG works.

It is possible the tooltips are wrong, but since Pyro is consistently at the top (or juuuuust behind the top) of PvE dps in the game, it is a safe bet that it isn't working as intended.

All are viable but the lower parsing spec needs quite some setup (bad for target switching) wheras the higher parsing spec doesn't need much setup.

 

At the moment I can't see a reason to play lethality (as an operative that is (scoundrel to be precice)).

But I like my dots... No really, I do fine in any content I've tried so far with dirty fighting (up to HM DF/DP).

I had overlooked the issue with PPA until it was pointed out to me not too long ago. Now that I have a better grasp of what is happening, let me give it a try explaining it.

 

2 x Power Shot will proc PPA almost 100% of the time. (I say "almost" because in very very rare occasions I've had to use a third PS to proc it) Unload + Power Shot will proc PPA 100% of the time -- I've never not seen a proc with these two abilities back to back.

 

The tooltip states that each PS has a 45% to proc, and Unload has a 75% chance. However, the proc chance appears to be calculated "additively" As in 45% + 45% = 90%. And 75% + 45% = 120% chance.

 

However, this is not actually how RNG works.

 

It is possible the tooltips are wrong, but since Pyro is consistently at the top (or juuuuust behind the top) of PvE dps in the game, it is a safe bet that it isn't working as intended.

Hmm, well hopefully they never fix this "glitch". I happen to like my pyro merc as is Has Bioware ever commented on this? Bioware has been on a mission recently to remove RNG dependence from most of the dps trees, so I doubt they would fix this without removing the RNG some other way.

The mentioned glitch isn't about the PPA proc - although it should be fixed, if possible with a stack-proc-mechanic or just a change in the tooltip.

The glitch under discussion is the fact that when Rail Shot hits the enemy, it refreshes the CGC-dot twice if the offhand hits as well. Rapid Shots can also proc it twice, if the offhand hits AND RNG is on your side. And since it always does damage on it's initial hit instead of after 1 sec, Mercenaries get a considerable advantage over their Commando brethren. (We're talking 100-200 dps here)

Mercenaries get a considerable advantage over their Commando brethren. (We're talking 100-200 dps here)

"Considerable advantage?" Go look at the Dread Palace 8-man dps leaderboard and look at the fights that have both a Commando Assault and a Mercenary Pryo on it.

3329 vs 3317

3714 vs 3647

2899 vs 2799

Only one fight (Calphayus) has a decent difference 2548 vs 2325.

Sure, in a perfect dummy parse, a Merc is going to break 4000, with the Commando topping out at about 3900. But in an actual ops fight? It's not a big deal.

"Considerable advantage?" Go look at the Dread Palace 8-man dps leaderboard and look at the fights that have both a Commando Assault and a Mercenary Pryo on it.

 

3329 vs 3317

3714 vs 3647

2899 vs 2799

 

Only one fight (Calphayus) has a decent difference 2548 vs 2325.

 

Sure, in a perfect dummy parse, a Merc is going to break 4000, with the Commando topping out at about 3900. But in an actual ops fight? It's not a big deal.

A boss fight can be influenced by good or bad RNG, player skill outside of "click the buttons", AoE damage, and can't be replicated reliably. Yes the merc and mando parses are similar, but there are much less parses around. Enough less to blame it on RNG. If a merc parses 300 dps more than a commando on a dummy, surely he has the same potential during boss fights. The fact that a parse hasn't shown up to prove it does nothing to disprove this, because there's so little boss fight parses and so many dummy parses.