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The ranked system is self-destructive; a new PvP system is needed.


Ashuranrx

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Arenas, solo ranked ques, and season 1 have not changed the self-destructive pattern of the current ranked PvP system. Players que for ranked, they get beat by top teams consistently, they get discouraged and stop queing. Then only the top 3 or 4 teams keep on queing and fight each other for a while. Eventually the #3 or #4 teams get sick of losing and getting beat by the same top 2 teams, and they stop queing too. And ranked died down to 2 or 3 teams participating on an occasional basis.

 

Same destructive pattern exist for solo ranked. People que for ranked, start losing due to bad teammates, afkers, quiters, or whatever other factors, then they stop queing. And solo ranked que died down to a few players queing, which would also eventually die down to nothing when the losers amongst these few get sick of losing and stop queing.

 

This destructive pattern was seen in the old 8v8 warzone ranked days, and is still apparent in the current ranked arena system. So I am proposing a new PvP system to have more people to participate, since it is obvious that we are not getting cross server que; that is already a dead horse.

 

Here is the new system I am proposing:

1. One que only, no separating regular que or ranked que. All games in this one que are rated.

2. All games reward one type of warzone comms. In addition, only victors of a game are rewarded with 1 victor comm.

3. PvP gear still have 2 tiers. First tier requires only warzone comm. Second tier requires the first tier, warzone comm, and victor comm. For example, tier 1 weapon requires 1500 WZ comm; tier 2 weapon requires tier 1 weapon, 3500 comm, and 25 victor comm. This means the player has to win at least 25 games to get the tier 2 weapon.

4. Victor comms are only rewarded in 55 pvp.

 

The advantages of this system are:

1. Everyone who PvPs is queing in one que, which allows a large pool to draw from.

2. Everyone is rated. Better players will be more likely to match against better players, which scale competition on both sides better.

3. Everyone can access tier 1 pvp gear easily. But accessing tier 2 pvp gear will require WINNING. Because no winning means no victors comm. And to win, people will be encouraged to improve their skills, to play in pre-mades; and they will be discouraged to give up early or leave warzones.

4. This system also prevents people from farming gear easily. A person can farm all day, but he is not going anywhere if he is not winning to get victor comms.

5. To encourage people to keep on PvPing despite of losing. One PvP daily quest will reward 1 victor comm, and the pvp weekly will reward 3 victor comms.

6. Victor comms are only rewarded in 55 pvp. Players can’t farm lowbies for easy access to tier 2 pvp gear.

 

Please comment or propose your own changes to the current PvP system. And please don’t beat any dead horses like cross-server que.

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Arenas, solo ranked ques, and season 1 have not changed the self-destructive pattern of the current ranked PvP system. Players que for ranked, they get beat by top teams consistently, they get discouraged and stop queing. Then only the top 3 or 4 teams keep on queing and fight each other for a while. Eventually the #3 or #4 teams get sick of losing and getting beat by the same top 2 teams, and they stop queing too. And ranked died down to 2 or 3 teams participating on an occasional basis.

 

Same destructive pattern exist for solo ranked. People que for ranked, start losing due to bad teammates, afkers, quiters, or whatever other factors, then they stop queing. And solo ranked que died down to a few players queing, which would also eventually die down to nothing when the losers amongst these few get sick of losing and stop queing.

 

This destructive pattern was seen in the old 8v8 warzone ranked days, and is still apparent in the current ranked arena system. So I am proposing a new PvP system to have more people to participate, since it is obvious that we are not getting cross server que; that is already a dead horse.

 

Here is the new system I am proposing:

1. One que only, no separating regular que or ranked que. All games in this one que are rated.

2. All games reward one type of warzone comms. In addition, only victors of a game are rewarded with 1 victor comm.

3. PvP gear still have 2 tiers. First tier requires only warzone comm. Second tier requires the first tier, warzone comm, and victor comm. For example, tier 1 weapon requires 1500 WZ comm; tier 2 weapon requires tier 1 weapon, 3500 comm, and 25 victor comm. This means the player has to win at least 25 games to get the tier 2 weapon.

4. Victor comms are only rewarded in 55 pvp.

 

The advantages of this system are:

1. Everyone who PvPs is queing in one que, which allows a large pool to draw from.

2. Everyone is rated. Better players will be more likely to match against better players, which scale competition on both sides better.

3. Everyone can access tier 1 pvp gear easily. But accessing tier 2 pvp gear will require WINNING. Because no winning means no victors comm. And to win, people will be encouraged to improve their skills, to play in pre-mades; and they will be discouraged to give up early or leave warzones.

4. This system also prevents people from farming gear easily. A person can farm all day, but he is not going anywhere if he is not winning to get victor comms.

5. To encourage people to keep on PvPing despite of losing. One PvP daily quest will reward 1 victor comm, and the pvp weekly will reward 3 victor comms.

6. Victor comms are only rewarded in 55 pvp. Players can’t farm lowbies for easy access to tier 2 pvp gear.

 

Please comment or propose your own changes to the current PvP system. And please don’t beat any dead horses like cross-server que.

 

Just only one question.

 

How underdog faction (Republic) can get Victor commz and high tier gear?

 

Kkthnxbye.

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Arenas, solo ranked ques, and season 1 have not changed the self-destructive pattern of the current ranked PvP system. Players que for ranked, they get beat by top teams consistently, they get discouraged and stop queing. Then only the top 3 or 4 teams keep on queing and fight each other for a while. Eventually the #3 or #4 teams get sick of losing and getting beat by the same top 2 teams, and they stop queing too. And ranked died down to 2 or 3 teams participating on an occasional basis.

 

Same destructive pattern exist for solo ranked. People que for ranked, start losing due to bad teammates, afkers, quiters, or whatever other factors, then they stop queing. And solo ranked que died down to a few players queing, which would also eventually die down to nothing when the losers amongst these few get sick of losing and stop queing.

 

This destructive pattern was seen in the old 8v8 warzone ranked days, and is still apparent in the current ranked arena system. So I am proposing a new PvP system to have more people to participate, since it is obvious that we are not getting cross server que; that is already a dead horse.

 

Here is the new system I am proposing:

1. One que only, no separating regular que or ranked que. All games in this one que are rated.

2. All games reward one type of warzone comms. In addition, only victors of a game are rewarded with 1 victor comm.

3. PvP gear still have 2 tiers. First tier requires only warzone comm. Second tier requires the first tier, warzone comm, and victor comm. For example, tier 1 weapon requires 1500 WZ comm; tier 2 weapon requires tier 1 weapon, 3500 comm, and 25 victor comm. This means the player has to win at least 25 games to get the tier 2 weapon.

4. Victor comms are only rewarded in 55 pvp.

 

The advantages of this system are:

1. Everyone who PvPs is queing in one que, which allows a large pool to draw from.

2. Everyone is rated. Better players will be more likely to match against better players, which scale competition on both sides better.

3. Everyone can access tier 1 pvp gear easily. But accessing tier 2 pvp gear will require WINNING. Because no winning means no victors comm. And to win, people will be encouraged to improve their skills, to play in pre-mades; and they will be discouraged to give up early or leave warzones.

4. This system also prevents people from farming gear easily. A person can farm all day, but he is not going anywhere if he is not winning to get victor comms.

5. To encourage people to keep on PvPing despite of losing. One PvP daily quest will reward 1 victor comm, and the pvp weekly will reward 3 victor comms.

6. Victor comms are only rewarded in 55 pvp. Players can’t farm lowbies for easy access to tier 2 pvp gear.

 

Please comment or propose your own changes to the current PvP system. And please don’t beat any dead horses like cross-server que.

 

Looking at this think your changes might be the nail in the coffin to pvp as whole.

The problem is not that people are not queuing for or are not wanting do ranked, the problem is that just there the distribution of skills is different. Forcing people in ranked doesnt let skill difference go away, people will get crush a few times and then they will do something else, just like the destructive mechanics you outlined that are already in existence.

 

On my server in old 8v8 ranked day we had two good pvp guilds (one of them nostrum dolus) and their skill level was just too high for any new ranked group to match. Basically when you queued you couldnt leave the spam. Thing is, you only get better by learning the coordination and mechanics of ranked by doing them, but if you just get destoryed it is not only not fun, but you dont learn anything. So consequentially ranked was pretty dead on our server.

 

Then came server transfers, ND and reality check moved to tofn, to have more ranked variety. And guess what happened, suddenly rank gained new life and a lot of new teams formed, not as high level as tofn, but it was actually enjoyable, since most people didnt have that much experience and you could learn the basics and improve, without getting crushed.

 

Just combining the normal and the ranked queue doesn't let those with more experience and better team work go away (not that i would want them to leave). So the problem just reiterates.

 

My suggestion would be something different, i would really like to be implemented. Let the teams arrange their matches themselves, so that you both teams a facing the team they wanted to face. Make this independent of rating and rewards and leave ranked in place roughly as it is.

 

Why?

First I think would just be fun to have guild wise turnerments. You can organize events and just enjoy relaxed pvp.

Second there it is up the players to set their rules and match groups so that it is a faceroll, challenging and possibilities for individual and group wise improvement.

Third excluding this from ratings and comm rewards, makes this not prone to abuse. But it is up to the organizer or the teams whether there some rewards, i.e. two competeting teams my agreed upon the losing team paying some credits to the winning team or stuff like that.

Fourth it keeps a ranked queue in place for those that want to do it, giving the top teams still something to do. My hope would be that those teams that feel they have got reasonable experience in the no rated premade arenas will go ranked to compete with the top teams. this would benefit both ends of the spectrum, since the top teams get more competition and those on the lower end can enjoy organized pvp without getting crushed.

Fifth it would overall give more control to us the players, and that is good thing for an MMO in terms of long term fun. The more you can do and organizes for yourself as a group of players the more fun it is and the longer you play the game.

 

well, that was just some stuff that went through my head in the last few days. I know won't happen, but nice in theory

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this is how you fix ranked

 

solo queue and reg wz reward ZERO ranked comms. a ranked solo queue is dumb when you're praying to the rng gods

 

no dailies or weeklies for regs which reward ranked comms. no converting wz comms into ranked

 

ranked comms only come from team arena

 

people are only doing solo queue now until they get all the gear faster. then they will be back in regs to barely break 300k or whatever it is 99% of you do

 

that is the only way to increase participation without cross server, but it makes too much sense so bioware won't do it.

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this is how you fix ranked

 

solo queue and reg wz reward ZERO ranked comms. a ranked solo queue is dumb when you're praying to the rng gods

 

no dailies or weeklies for regs which reward ranked comms. no converting wz comms into ranked

 

ranked comms only come from team arena

 

people are only doing solo queue now until they get all the gear faster. then they will be back in regs to barely break 300k or whatever it is 99% of you do

 

that is the only way to increase participation without cross server, but it makes too much sense so bioware won't do it.

 

Yeah this. It's the same for PvE progression. The best gear should be awarded for completing the most difficult content.

 

I'd even take it a step further and say you only get ranked comms for winning, to discourage general chat "loser/comm farm groups".

Edited by Morde_
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this is how you fix ranked

 

solo queue and reg wz reward ZERO ranked comms. a ranked solo queue is dumb when you're praying to the rng gods

 

no dailies or weeklies for regs which reward ranked comms. no converting wz comms into ranked

 

ranked comms only come from team arena

 

people are only doing solo queue now until they get all the gear faster. then they will be back in regs to barely break 300k or whatever it is 99% of you do

 

that is the only way to increase participation without cross server, but it makes too much sense so bioware won't do it.

 

Nah, then people may even stop PvPing all together. Rewards alone cannot encourage people to participate when the experience of getting beat repeatly discourage them more.

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Yeah this. It's the same for PvE progression. The best gear should be awarded for completing the most difficult content.

 

I'd even take it a step further and say you only get ranked comms for winning, to discourage general chat "loser/comm farm groups".

 

While your suggestion is encourages competition, it discourages participation. We want to encourage pariticpation, yet keep competitiveness at the same time. Participation must come first before competition can take place.

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Nah, then people may even stop PvPing all together. Rewards alone cannot encourage people to participate when the experience of getting beat repeatly discourage them more.

 

then they need to focus on getting better, since pvp is supposed to be about competition, not farming gear

 

there is one team on my server who took around 20 losses against us and now they have the advantage against one of our comps. it is possible

 

and scold is right, only winning SHOULD be rewarded.

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It's Queue!

 

Giving victor comms won't work because most servers have way too many Imps and not enough Pubs and it will be the Illum fiasco all over again. Imps will be fully geared and Pubs will still be waiting to finish their weekly.

 

How about ranked matches where gear doesn't even matter? Just your skill and team comp? I know crazy talk.

Edited by Artlu
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this is how you fix ranked

 

solo queue and reg wz reward ZERO ranked comms. a ranked solo queue is dumb when you're praying to the rng gods

 

no dailies or weeklies for regs which reward ranked comms. no converting wz comms into ranked

 

ranked comms only come from team arena

 

people are only doing solo queue now until they get all the gear faster. then they will be back in regs to barely break 300k or whatever it is 99% of you do

 

that is the only way to increase participation without cross server, but it makes too much sense so bioware won't do it.

 

This would be a step in the right direction...

 

Right now can a duo join a solo queue, or is it purely a solo queue? (I've never tried a duo) I see ppl complain about always facing the best teams in solo queue... how can this happen if it's random?

 

Z

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then they need to focus on getting better, since pvp is supposed to be about competition, not farming gear

 

there is one team on my server who took around 20 losses against us and now they have the advantage against one of our comps. it is possible

 

and scold is right, only winning SHOULD be rewarded.

 

I believe that only winning should be rewarded too, that is why I propose the system with victor comms.

 

However, the current system cannot be used to force competitiveness with its limitation to arenas only, which bring forth the monster of class balance with it. At least in warzones, any spec and any skill level of players have a chance of winning by playing tactically and objectively.

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This would be a step in the right direction...

 

Right now can a duo join a solo queue, or is it purely a solo queue? (I've never tried a duo) I see ppl complain about always facing the best teams in solo queue... how can this happen if it's random?

 

Z

 

Its pretty easy to sync on your queues so that you get into the same match. It might take a couple of tries but once you get it youre pretty much locked in. However, the flipside to that is you can end up on opposite teams

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It's Queue!

 

Giving victor comms won't work because most servers have way too many Imps and not enough Pubs and it will be the Illum fiasco all over again. Imps will be fully geared and Pubs will still be waiting to finish their weekly.

 

How about ranked matches where gear doesn't even matter? Just your skill and team comp? I know crazy talk.

 

I don't understand your point. In warzones, faction population does not matter. How is this compare to classic Ilum?

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I believe that only winning should be rewarded too, that is why I propose the system with victor comms.

 

However, the current system cannot be used to force competitiveness with its limitation to arenas only, which bring forth the monster of class balance with it. At least in warzones, any spec and any skill level of players have a chance of winning by playing tactically and objectively.

 

class balance is mostly fine, it's just people aren't good enough. they need to practice more.

 

the major issue is bringing the other two healers up to the level of ops. madness sins need some love. dps ops can have a spot, but everyone generally agrees they need help too.

 

the majority of mmo players are driven by gear, this is a fact. if they knew the only way to get gear was to win in team arena, you can bet a lot more people would be doing it. exactly like it works in WoW (with their ranked system). all that queuing would eventually lead to people experimenting with comps and improving in general

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then they need to focus on getting better, since pvp is supposed to be about competition, not farming gear

 

there is one team on my server who took around 20 losses against us and now they have the advantage against one of our comps. it is possible

 

and scold is right, only winning SHOULD be rewarded.

 

How stupid - it's a game. If you punish people for trying and failing, they'll stop playing it altogether. Winning should (and IS rewarded), but so is participation, which encourages MORE participation!

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How stupid - it's a game. If you punish people for trying and failing, they'll stop playing it altogether. Winning should (and IS rewarded), but so is participation, which encourages MORE participation!

 

i guess you were bad at sports growing up and needed your participation ribbon as well

 

play an xbox game if you want fun and to feel like a hero

 

player vs player should always be centered around competition and being the best you can

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How stupid - it's a game. If you punish people for trying and failing, they'll stop playing it altogether. Winning should (and IS rewarded), but so is participation, which encourages MORE participation!

 

I agree with this. This is the core philosophy that need to be designed around. Let's face it. This is a game, which for most people it is only one of many means for entertainment to kill time. Majority of participants are casual, so the accessibility to PvP must be easy and simple to encourage pariticpation.

 

Once we have the participation pool, we can set up competitiness by giving greater rewards for winning. Participation must be etablished before competition can exist.

 

That is why I propose victor comms as a means of competition while everything else is easily accessible.

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...

1. One que only, no separating regular que or ranked que. All games in this one que are rated.

....

 

The starcraft 2 ladder system showed the big downside to this, people don't want to be constantly reminded of how bad they are. If everything is ranked a lot of people will be too embarassed by their rank to keep playing and just quit.

 

Additionally, ladder anxiety is actually a thing, even great players suffer from it, and having a casual, non-ranked queue helps with that. What could work imo is to have an invisible ranking, but then you alienate the people who want to compete for the highest ranks, and i see no way how to make both of these work in the same queue.

 

An idea that i really like is to allow 55s to queue in the 30-54 bracket (with bolstered down gear obviously to be on par with everyone else in this bracket) so there is still a place to practice and gear up without the ranking pressure and you could make all 55 pvp ranked and the only place to get ranked comms. (or whatever you want to call them)

 

In the end though i don't think anything but cross server queues can make ranked pvp work. If they are unable to do that, imo, the best thing would be to just accept that this is not a competitive pvp game, let ranked die slowly and don't waste any more resources on it.

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I agree with this. This is the core philosophy that need to be designed around. Let's face it. This is a game, which for most people it is only one of many means for entertainment to kill time. Majority of participants are casual, so the accessibility to PvP must be easy and simple to encourage pariticpation.

 

Once we have the participation pool, we can set up competitiness by giving greater rewards for winning. Participation must be etablished before competition can exist.

 

That is why I propose victor comms as a means of competition while everything else is easily accessible.

 

casuals aka bads, can get their fix in normal wz or solo queue. it doesn't need to reward the best gear.

 

participation (for 99% of "pvpers") is only because of a desire to get the best set of gear. if the best set of gear is only accessible through team ranked, then people are forced to participate in order to get it.

 

if you can't see this, you are bad and i bid you to stay small

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casuals aka bads, can get their fix in normal wz or solo queue. it doesn't need to reward the best gear.

 

participation (for 99% of "pvpers") is only because of a desire to get the best set of gear. if the best set of gear is only accessible through team ranked, then people are forced to participate in order to get it.

 

if you can't see this, you are bad and i bid you to stay small

 

It seems like your belief is that you want to discourage all the "bads" from participating and only want the "elite" playing.

 

Bro, why don't you go become a pro-gamer. You can have top competition and make money off it at the same time. Win-win for you. People compete in school and at work in real life already, do you think people will keep playing a game if the game stresses them to compete?

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