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Honor Code of a pilot?


Monumenta's Avatar


Monumenta
06.05.2015 , 05:15 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Bolo_Yeung View Post
This is efficient. And honorless, especially planting mines at spawn (I know that sometimes you get involved in fight close to spawn - but farming enemies that way is plain lameness.

Another thing: don't use cheap tactics (like GS wall / GS-bomber deathball), unless the enemy use it first.; especially it the enemy has team clearly weaker than yours.
These kind of self imposed rules are fine for you but the idea that everyone's going to feel the same way is way off base, including the devs which made all these tactics possible in their game.

Again, imagine asking people in a pvp match to conform to not using powerful abilities or not to fight people in certain places on the map for the sake of sportsmanship.

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
06.05.2015 , 06:23 PM | #12
I won't get into ethics or "honor", but there is some game theory to consider.

Let's assume your overarching goal is "have as much fun as possible playing GSF for time duration X".

There are several contributing factors to this, and I think most veteran pilots would agree that they want all three of the below criteria to be true:

1) Queues pop frequently
2) Teams are not so unbalanced in your favor that you get bored
3) Teams are not so unbalanced against you that you get shut down

The above is my ranking, but individual pilots may rank them differently. My first order bit is that I want queues to pop, because for me, just being in a match where I can fly around and fight things is rewarding. My second order bit is that I want to have an opportunity to play hard in a competitive ship. My third order bit is that I don't want to be SO outmatched that the entire enemy team focuses me, and I get so little support that I effectively can't do anything.

Again, putting aside all notion of honor or mercy, my own selfish goals (and their relative priority) mean that I have motivation to keep the queues popping.

If we had an enormous, healthy GSF population, queues would pop regardless of how I play. Some nights that's true, but some night's it's not. I hope that one day, it will be true at all hours.

But in those time periods when the queues are not guaranteed, I need to consider those three goals against each other, as well as my overall meta goal of "have as much fun as possible playing GSF for time duration X". And this logic means I act very differently in TDM vs. Domination.

First let's look at Domination. If I'm in a Domination match where my team severely outmatches the other ... I have to consider the potential benefits and risks of 3-capping vs. 2-capping.

First, 3-capping:

3-capping against an inferior team decreases the likelihood queues will keep popping.
3-capping will end the match more quickly, and if there's not another match afterward, it means less time having fun playing GSF.
3-capping will deny the enemy team any ability to fortify, except at their capital ship. This means that they won't be able to build up any defenses, and killing them will be easy... and potentially boring.

Now, 2-capping:

2-capping allows the team to fortify at a satellite, which creates a zone of challenge for me to attack. Attacking a node where almost all of a team is defending is exciting and thrilling, and allows me to show off and/or increase my skill.
2-capping extends the duration of the match, meaning I get to have more fun longer and post bigger numbers.
2-capping allows the enemy team to get requisition. This increases the chance that they will one day develop into more legitimate competition.
2-capping is less demoralizing to the enemy, and may increase the chance that they will queue up again.

For Domination, the choice for me is clear. I will 2-cap if possible--for entirely self-serving reasons. Now, as an added benefit, I've hopefully helped bolster my server's GSF community and given them some time and space to practice and learn. I am happy about that. But after a long day at work, make no mistake--I'm there for my own entertainment. And for me, 3-capping an inferior team is just boring.

Heck, if I could convince the rest of my team to do it, I'd let the enemy 3-cap and fortify and then challenge myself and my team to stage a comeback. I've tried a few times, but my team never plays along..


Now before you ignore my claims of selfish-motivation and call me a carebear, let's look at what I do in TDM. If the enemy team is even remotely competitive, I will generally jump in one of my better ships (or a ship I am trying to set a record in). I will then play my absolute hardest and most viciously. I will follow the enemy back to their spawn and kill them. Then I will tab target to the nearest enemy (who is usually at a spawn) and kill them too.

I will try to get every DO and steal every kill. In those matches, the challenge is not coming from my enemy--it's coming from my own team, and my past performances. I want to be the Boss Monster that the other team has to struggle to contain. I want to top the scoreboard in absurd fashion. I'm good at the game, and I've put a lot of effort into it, and I feel I deserve to show off a bit. TDM is where I let myself feel free to do so.

Now if the enemy team is truly, miserably terrible, then I'll fly some non-traditional or funky ship in Deathmatch. A Bomber or a Strike, or a double-missile Jurgoran or a double-torpedo Dustmaker, or a Clarion with Ion Missiles. But then I will still play my absolute hardest to top the scoreboard. I never take my foot off the gas.

Yes, this may harm the chances that the queue keeps popping. But in this case, my #2 goal supercedes my #1 goal. Taking my foot off the gas in TDM is just way too boring for me--I can't do it. The most mercy I can show is to drive a van instead of a racecar. But I'm going to try my hardest to make that van a DOOMVAN (I think that's going to be my new name for the Decimus).

Unlike Domination, in TDM you can always make your own challenge and fun, because you can always play purely for your own best personal performance.

I know that statement will rub some the wrong way, but it's how I enjoy the game. And when Domination comes up, I'm happy to play a supportive team role if that's what we need to win.

Of course, the best way to achieve all three of my goals is to keep jumping back and forth between factions. That way, even if I help slaughter a team in one match, the next match I'll be carrying them. Conquest interferes with that sometimes, but it's something I'm trying to do more on TEH.

Anyway, my point in all of this is that there's little hope in changing someone to do something "honorable". Instead, all you can do is see if someone's personal goals align with what "honorable play" might resemble. For me, my behavior in Domination does, but my behavior in TDM does not.
Shayd / Callem / RK-4X / "Trynt" - Leader of <Eclipse Squadron>, The Ebon Hawk
http://EclipseSquadron.enjin.com Imperial GSF-focused guild

"Serve the Emperor above all others."

Bolo_Yeung's Avatar


Bolo_Yeung
06.05.2015 , 11:35 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Monumenta View Post
These kind of self imposed rules are fine for you but the idea that everyone's going to feel the same way is way off base,
Yep, but you can ask others to follow some rules you feel right - and discuss those rules as well

Quote:
including the devs which made all these tactics possible in their game.
Heard that about one exploit a while ago... then cries of outrage when people got banned for using it. Not everything that is in game is working as intended ... especially when this particular part of the game was neglected by devs for a few months.

Quote:
Again, imagine asking people in a pvp match to conform to not using powerful abilities or not to fight people in certain places on the map for the sake of sportsmanship.
Sure. Some people wants to "own" by any means, some are playing for fun... and aren't saying 'gg' afer 1000:x or 50:2 win. If you face weaker team, try to get reqs for other ship, that isn't as powerful...

About 3-capping - I'd say that 3-cap if possible THEN, if the enemy team is clearly weaker, leave 1-2 sats with no/low defenses, allow them to cap. You will win anyway, so allow them to learn mechanics of the game...
Often I see 5-6 from total 8 ships defending one node while the rest is pointlessly attacking other 2 (while my team splits, like, 4-4 and farm those 2-3 enemies continuously).

Caernos's Avatar


Caernos
06.06.2015 , 06:07 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
Play what you want whatever way you want and don't judge others for doing or enjoying something different.
This is pretty much my code, though I will admit, I judge my guildmates when they shoot my poor quell with ion rail or blcs. Then I judge them very harshly...with protorps.
Cynfor Cinderheart and the Cinderheart Legacy: The Ebon Hawk
The FanFic Works of Caernos:
Red Invitation, Parents,
Beskar Bonds and Cinder Hearts

Ymris's Avatar


Ymris
06.06.2015 , 08:36 AM | #15
Good sportsmanship never makes a competitive activity less enjoyable (with the exception of the poor sports, who only grow more frustrated when good sports don't sink to their level).

Verain's first post here made me smile

Way I see it, virtues such as "honor" or "courage" or "cowardice" can't be applied to video games, i.e. a perfectly nice person IRL might be a complete *** in-game, and vice versa; there's really nothing wrong with that. That's just my opinion, though.
Tensoring straight to hell!

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
06.06.2015 , 08:40 AM | #16
The only thing that I'm consistent enough on to really call it a, "code," would be:

Thou shalt Ion Rail Spam the snot out of bomberballs.


Other than that it really varies on conditions.

Regular faction swapping helps. Getting crushed isn't that great, but if people figure that they've got reasonably even odds of the coin landing on the "we got demolished" side vs the "we demolished them" side typically they'll be a lot more willing to endure the defeats without dropping queue.
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."
- Zhe Lian, Sage.

Twitch

Monumenta's Avatar


Monumenta
06.06.2015 , 10:09 AM | #17
bottom line is you are trying to control other people, other peoples ques, other peoples moral, other peoples tactics and you are using some fake code to justify it, I dont agree, I say do your thing and quit acting like your way is superior and everyone else needs to conform to you, behavior like that would not be welcome in any other mode of the game

Ymris's Avatar


Ymris
06.06.2015 , 10:47 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Monumenta View Post
bottom line is you are trying to control other people, other peoples ques, other peoples moral, other peoples tactics and you are using some fake code to justify it, I dont agree, I say do your thing and quit acting like your way is superior and everyone else needs to conform to you, behavior like that would not be welcome in any other mode of the game
lolumadbro?

There's nothing wrong with what the OP is saying. Nice flame though.
Tensoring straight to hell!

Wuxtry's Avatar


Wuxtry
06.06.2015 , 10:55 AM | #19
In a blow out, I swap to my hose spec scout.

Or T3 scout with thermites!
Socratesz - Jiggo-
P'eek- Wuxtry
CE Regulator
Prophecy of the Five

ThutmoseV's Avatar


ThutmoseV
06.06.2015 , 11:24 AM | #20
The real question is how do we create an environment where new GSF players will join and stick around long enough to get competitive. How we play probably makes less of a difference than how the experienced players support the new players between matches, and how the devs could make it easier for newer players.

Most GSF pilots seem to be glad to help other pilots. Everybody here agrees that better tutorials would be a big help for new players, but that's up to the devs. One thing that the devs could do that should be easy to implement would be to have a mission where after your first 10 GSF matches you get 10000 ship req for whichever ship in your hangar you choose. This would give a quick boost for new players in their favorite ship, after they have had a chance to get an idea of how they play and had a chance to do some research on gearing.

I do make some allowances in matches where my side appears to be heavily favored. I might play a strike instead of a gunship or t2 scout. If we have 2 sats capped and fortified I might not make a big effort to get the last. Sometimes when we are behind in a domination match I will try to tie up 2 or three enemies by single handedly attacking a fortified sat with a gunship, even though I expect to fail, so that other pilots will have a better chance somewhere else. I do play both factions. But I think the best thing for the morale of new pilots is to be on the winning side of a close match, because they can see that any improvement in their performance can contribute to success.
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