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Suggestion: Give Shields a non-zero "recently consumed" regeneration rate

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Suggestion: Give Shields a non-zero "recently consumed" regeneration rate

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
06.06.2015 , 12:02 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
I doubt that.

In GSF, everything written in percents is a ratio of the stat it's born from. Here the stat is 0. Hence increasing of 30% of 0... So, 0.
Nope. The stat it's born from is the base recharge rate. Base recently consumed rate is 0% of full. Now it's 30% of full.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

Verain's Avatar


Verain
06.06.2015 , 02:12 PM | #12
I gave him crap for writing a bunch of text because the global effect would be minor (and I argue, bad), while the only interesting effect would be the S2E buff.

One thing that I see as core difference is- a lot of you guys seem to think that S2E, pressed more often, would be scarily broken or something.

It is true that Shield To Engine is very overbudget as a component. But it forces you into a playstyle, and actively trades away your defenses. Every other scout build can get something defensive out of pressing 2, but the shield to engine scout has that as part of a resource system that everyone else already has.

The build is ALREADY capable of:
1)- Essentially boosting forever.
2)- Outrunning everything else in the game*
3)- Shrugging off ion railgun.


This is why I don't feel that allowing a trivial amount of regen to occur is game breaking in any possible way. The move is already good at what it does, this wouldn't give it a grand new capability. If an enemy is running S2E, you are already having to scare him off or kill him while he has a mile of boost.


*technically, you can always put more towards speed or regen or booster recharge, and win a race. But if your S2E scout gets chased away by the enemy full boost scout, the odds are really not in favor of the S2E scout actually dying at the end of that encounter- he'll just get more boost and go do his thing some more. The ships that are capable of running around the map with this guy can't get a kill on him at the end of that.


This is also a big reason why S2E needs to not get handed around- if this was on, say, a bomber, that would be nuts. If a type 3 gunship could run S2E, it would probably be the generally best gunship. Etc. It's just not a balanced component- it's a tuned component for a certain scout that gives it certain capabilities that could be game breaking under some situations, but that scout can't be dropping mines or railgunning or burst laser cannoning on top of it all.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
06.06.2015 , 05:54 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
Nope. The stat it's born from is the base recharge rate. Base recently consumed rate is 0% of full. Now it's 30% of full.
Look at Quick-charge and Recently consumed engine rate.
Does it increases the rate by 45% of full rate, or 45% of recently consumed rate ?

The answer : 45% of recently consumed. It goes from 2 to 2.9, not to 4.25.
Yet, recently consumed rate here is 40% of full. It could have been raised to 85% according to your theory. But it hasn't.

Also look at Regeneration Thrusters. +20% to both regeneration rates. It makes sense only if they are independent from each other, and both have to be multiplied by 1.2.
The same goes for regeneration Magazine.

All clues are here. Each stat is independent of each other, and all percentages are only applied to them. If you want to alter them at a different level, then it's by an other mean, which will be displayed differently.


If you still believe you can turn on regeneration under fire with Shield Projector, I invite you to equip your Clarion with Shield Projector and Regeneration Reactor. You'd have +50% of regeneration, and it should be sensibly similar to Quick-charge with its 60%.
I can assure you, it's nothing similar, you won't see your shield regen unless to activate the CD.
How do I know ? I tried. I wanted to believe the +60 was just a typo. It's not, it's a requirement.

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
06.06.2015 , 07:15 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
I gave him crap for writing a bunch of text because the global effect would be minor (and I argue, bad), while the only interesting effect would be the S2E buff.

One thing that I see as core difference is- a lot of you guys seem to think that S2E, pressed more often, would be scarily broken or something.

It is true that Shield To Engine is very overbudget as a component. But it forces you into a playstyle, and actively trades away your defenses. Every other scout build can get something defensive out of pressing 2, but the shield to engine scout has that as part of a resource system that everyone else already has.

The build is ALREADY capable of:
1)- Essentially boosting forever.
2)- Outrunning everything else in the game*
3)- Shrugging off ion railgun.


This is why I don't feel that allowing a trivial amount of regen to occur is game breaking in any possible way. The move is already good at what it does, this wouldn't give it a grand new capability. If an enemy is running S2E, you are already having to scare him off or kill him while he has a mile of boost.


*technically, you can always put more towards speed or regen or booster recharge, and win a race. But if your S2E scout gets chased away by the enemy full boost scout, the odds are really not in favor of the S2E scout actually dying at the end of that encounter- he'll just get more boost and go do his thing some more. The ships that are capable of running around the map with this guy can't get a kill on him at the end of that.


This is also a big reason why S2E needs to not get handed around- if this was on, say, a bomber, that would be nuts. If a type 3 gunship could run S2E, it would probably be the generally best gunship. Etc. It's just not a balanced component- it's a tuned component for a certain scout that gives it certain capabilities that could be game breaking under some situations, but that scout can't be dropping mines or railgunning or burst laser cannoning on top of it all.
"Useable more often" is not the same as "keep it on cool down or you are bad".

If S2E is combined with Turbo Reactor, the correct time to use it is always now. Same if recently consumed regen rate is 1.7% or greater.

At that point, you might as well remove the button and just make S2E provide a passive bonus that regenerates 3.4 engine energy per second.
Shayd / Callem / RK-4X / "Trynt" - Leader of <Eclipse Squadron>, The Ebon Hawk
http://EclipseSquadron.enjin.com Imperial GSF-focused guild

"Serve the Emperor above all others."

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
06.06.2015 , 07:17 PM | #15
To be truthful, the whole Shield to Engine providing such good engine power AND it still technically having stronger defense then Quick charge shield is why I am so adamant about getting QCS buffed. It basically does everything worse then Shield to engine, sure it increases shield regen but no one really cares all that much.

Daedahl's Avatar


Daedahl
06.06.2015 , 09:26 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
If you still believe you can turn on regeneration under fire with Shield Projector, I invite you to equip your Clarion with Shield Projector and Regeneration Reactor. You'd have +50% of regeneration, and it should be sensibly similar to Quick-charge with its 60%.
I can assure you, it's nothing similar, you won't see your shield regen unless to activate the CD.
How do I know ? I tried. I wanted to believe the +60 was just a typo. It's not, it's a requirement.
So basically that part of Shield projector means nothing. Seems like either they intended there to be a recently consumed shield rate that was not 0 or someone made a mistake on the tooltip. Is it possible it is giving a bump to recently consumed engine power instead (like quick charge shield)? Not sure how easy it would be to test that.

Ardaneb's Avatar


Ardaneb
06.08.2015 , 04:02 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
"Useable more often" is not the same as "keep it on cool down or you are bad".

If S2E is combined with Turbo Reactor, the correct time to use it is always now. Same if recently consumed regen rate is 1.7% or greater.

At that point, you might as well remove the button and just make S2E provide a passive bonus that regenerates 3.4 engine energy per second.
The S2E only operates like this in between engagements. I agree with Verain that it already is pretty darn easy to operate in between engagements. It only becomes hard once you take a hit to your shields. A S2E build is hardly able to shrug off an ion rail hit like the booster system. As you know, after taking shield damage, the S2E pilot makes many choices of trying to engage versus attempting a shieldless escape. There are many more opportunities to engage more with less and less shields as a calculated risk. Many of the time windows are less than 6 seconds. The trickier parts of S2E utilization are only made a little easier by sticking it on a ship with a reactor. I guess there can be calculated risks getting to a flashing node or picking up a DO. Those calculations would go away, but not too much will change. People who repeated drain their shield without calculation: we can give them a little buff, they won't even notice.

I think S2E is pretty good as is on the type 1 scout. However, I also think if they were to add it to the type 3 scout, it would not be remotely overpowered. That ship would still be less powerful than the type 1 scout due to the secondary weapons, which are not suited for that flight style. However, there might be more opportunity to support teammates with tensor or combat command, which might just make it worth keeping type 3 scouts in a match for more than 1 second.
Paloga/Lantor

ALaggyGrunt's Avatar


ALaggyGrunt
06.12.2015 , 02:55 AM | #18
If the number is 1 or 2 ponts/second, we can calibrate shields off of that. This could also give regen reactor a serious reasoon for existing: with quick-charge, it would be able to regen-tank plasma rail burn.

Or maybe it actually is calibrated from the shields' normal regen rate?