The correct answer to the title question is: Stay in lowbie.

Lowbie post 2.0 that is, so < lvl 30.

If you can hit with deathfield or force in balance for 5k with only 11 points in the tree, I will get down on my knees and beg for your forgiveness. Until then I am going to politely ask you to shut up if you don't know what you're talking about.

 

And for my sage/sorc brothers and sisters who do understand that without creeping death, and without that 30% extra surge on deathfield I will just apologize that you had to waste your time with this post.

Agreed 100%. The guy has no idea what he's talking about. Ignore him.

Sages/sorcs get some really nice and interesting buffs in the dps department, particularly in the TK/LING tree. It remains to be tested though whether it is on par with the other classes. Force barrier is nice if they reduce the cd to 2mins. Now if they would increase a few meters the range of knochback then things would be really fine for them, even with the loss of instant force lift, which with 2.0 there will be too many dots flying around to that applicable or there arent enough points to take it. But dps wise there shouldnt be any complains as on paper it looks very promising. With a 30/16 build you can hit dist/ls for 5k which can proc tk wave/chain ling, whose damage has increased and has some nice slow effects also.

Lightning tree is still ****. You'll get jumped by a mara/jugg or attacked by a pt/sin and then what? You can only try to kite and that is not helping anyone in your team. Again the spec looks good on paper or on a dummy but not in a warzone. Thundering blast SHOULD BE instant.

Lightning tree is still ****. You'll get jumped by a mara/jugg or attacked by a pt/sin and then what? You can only try to kite and that is not helping anyone in your team. Again the spec looks good on paper or on a dummy but not in a warzone.

Melees seem to think that sages are fine because it takes some effort to kill them. It doesn't even come to a melee's mind that if sages were fine, then they would quick his melee arse too, now and then, and not only stupidly kite him to delay the unavoidable defeat.

Lightning tree is still ****. You'll get jumped by a mara/jugg or attacked by a pt/sin and then what? You can only try to kite and that is not helping anyone in your team. Again the spec looks good on paper or on a dummy but not in a warzone.

I am not sure. I play 25/16 for quite a long time now, and dps concerned I can see the extensions of 2.0 and how they can assist this spec. Also kiting I think is useful, particularly if you are dps as you are taking out one player. I think that sages should get a) burst, or at least conditional or random burst, which they seem to get now but needs to be compared overall, b) kiting/survivability tools, they have been in a way better position than commandos. A few of my suggestions have always been a) egressed force speed by default. b) a bit longer distance on the knockback that sends someone more than 10m away. With 2.0 a) barrier should be 2mins for dps specs, b) loss of instant WW, well bring back the range of stun to 30m then c) mental alacirty/polarity shift gives also for its duration cc and leap immunity.

EDIT: Oh yes. and a very important addition, a basic ranged attack. It is a joke to me that sages are the only ranged class without a basic attack. Even vanguards who are supposed to be melee have a 30m basic attack which does quite decent damage.

EDIT: Further additions that I forgot and mentioned in the past... Minimum damage of force in balance/death field should be increased. Change 2.0 of hitting 5 targets was not needed. Also a finishing move would greatly help to finish someone when you have burnt every single ability you have to bring him down to a low level, just to see him escape the last minute. This would be easily implemented with project which autocrits and autoprocs on targets below 30%. Regarding balance or full balance more precisely, a skill that decreases the duration of the dots while they still do the same damage, would solve issues with fluff damage, I think then sages/sorcs will be on par with vanguards, sentinels and slingers.

BTW as I've written in another thread.

If you have any views or concerns about anything regarding 2.0, it will be heard more on the pts subforum. It has been acknowledged by BW that at the moment the pvp subforum does not get a lot of attention, as they are focussing on the pts (here is BW forum post http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5924498&postcount=18).

Please enlighten me. I don't see the changes in the tree being in the wrong direction. The contrary, they seem super on paper and they only have to be assessed within the overall picture of a warzone.

I didn't talk about changes in the tree, right now ap/alacrity is the way to do nearly as much dmg as the others classes. With the alacrity buff , that it will affect gcd as well,(i always thought pre 1.2 it already was like that...)

sage can finally use weaken mind too and can faster faceroll instead facerolling twice to surrive and do moderate dmg. Imagine a sage with like 50%+ crit and a strong critdmg like pre 1.2 ull heal over 300k in the end without even hit a healspell once. people underrestimate it i see most builds dont use it (crit 2% heal) and balance have an unbelievable cost of force. If i get ignored i can handle it easy, but if i have 1+ people on me force dissappears so quickly that i find myself running away waiting till i have enough force for my root and so on...

I want to mention that nearly every dps class runs aroung with 100% crit buffs.... that's not good... even with higher tears of gear. pre 1.2 it wasn't realy a problem as i know.

You are not saying how they will not, but it doesmt matter because yes they will. Power and crit will benefit the 50% extra crit damage of dist and tk wave. Alacrity will allow you to have faster casting/channeling times and rotations.

Again i spoke about the balance tree. And 50%critdmg is given in the tree right now, there is nothing new about that.

Tk has more burst in 2.0. Rephrase a balance/tk hybrid with appropriate rotation has more burst than either of the two. Leaving aside alacrity and potency, the rest of the time for highest burst you have to get some procs and rely on crit. That's the most balanced burst. Every class should be built around this.

realy ? more burst ? FiB hit with over 8k... then immediatly a project with additional 4k+ ... show me where TK reach that.

What was the nerf in balance you are referring to? Loss if instant force lift? It would be hardly applicable as balance got even more dots now. Balance in fact got buffed, just not maybe to the extend other trees of any class got buffed. And this still remains to be seen on how much damage the proc dot from tk will do. Also if the proc chance was increased there then balance would be a serious competitor for sustained damage with occasional burst.

more dots ? there is 1 extra tick with telekinetic throw which is great for additinal proc chance for healing but still that's it. With the forcelift nerf, u never can abuse this talent to stun a target, right now u can stun someone 8sec and additonal 2 if u do dmg on him. now ur cast can be interrupted and u don't have the time, dunno how often i killed to people or managed a 1v2 situation by instantly lifting one up, not to think about the fact that it is another range interupt !! balance got more dmg than ever no doubt about that but it will be hard to surrive than ever !

The amount of resolve that WW gives for a 2s stun is not worth it. Instant WW was nice as an interrupt or to cc the healer. It was a last measure in a 1v1 fight and if you really wanted to make full use of it then you should have hold your dots back.

The fact that you sir, ignoring a range interupt makes me wonder if you think about what ur talking.

But i totally agree resolve will fill very quickly but still it can be used for so so many things... even huttball if player stands on fire, lift up.. dead.(if u have nothing else rdy!

You are running ahead, by judging it as "huge". You have to test the damage and compare it to other classes. Every class had the capability of big numbers, with some even more so such as smash specs. However, the difference is that sages did fluff damage and the rest of the classes did burst damage.

i know other class may do more dmg or got a bmg boost too, but sage is range and he does a lot of damage right now with the buff balance sage will be able to destory whole teams if he get's ignored, maybe one of the best dps class on range and with the great tools for kiteing, los and stuff a high threat like snipers.

I didn't talk about changes in the tree, right now ap/alacrity is the way to do nearly as much dmg as the others classes. With the alacrity buff , that it will affect gcd as well,(i always thought pre 1.2 it already was like that...)

sage can finally use weaken mind too and can faster faceroll instead facerolling twice to surrive and do moderate dmg. Imagine a sage with like 50%+ crit and a strong critdmg like pre 1.2 ull heal over 300k in the end without even hit a healspell once. people underrestimate it i see most builds dont use it (crit 2% heal) and balance have an unbelievable cost of force. If i get ignored i can handle it easy, but if i have 1+ people on me force dissappears so quickly that i find myself running away waiting till i have enough force for my root and so on...

 

I want to mention that nearly every dps class runs aroung with 100% crit buffs.... that's not good... even with higher tears of gear. pre 1.2 it wasn't realy a problem as i know.

 

Again i spoke about the balance tree. And 50%critdmg is given in the tree right now, there is nothing new about that.

Im sorry but I can't understand a word of what you are saying in this paragraph. Im afraid you are making too many references to pre 1.2, when we are at 1.7 at the moment with 2.0 coming up. Also you use theoretical examples that cannot be applied, like "imagine a sage with 50%" crit.

realy ? more burst ? FiB hit with over 8k... then immediatly a project with additional 4k+ ... show me where TK reach that.

We must be playing a different game cause force in balance does not do 8k damage. Also 4k project requires a crit and a proc. TK can now have 5k disturbances if you looked at the trees and there are other combos and procs that can give you burst from other abilities.

more dots ? there is 1 extra tick with telekinetic throw which is great for additinal proc chance for healing but still that's it. With the forcelift nerf, u never can abuse this talent to stun a target, right now u can stun someone 8sec and additonal 2 if u do dmg on him. now ur cast can be interrupted and u don't have the time, dunno how often i killed to people or managed a 1v2 situation by instantly lifting one up, not to think about the fact that it is another range interupt !! balance got more dmg than ever no doubt about that but it will be hard to surrive than ever !

It's 2 ticks the dot that can be applied, and there is no lockout duration. Have you even actually looked at the trees?

The fact that you sir, ignoring a range interupt makes me wonder if you think about what ur talking.

But i totally agree resolve will fill very quickly but still it can be used for so so many things... even huttball if player stands on fire, lift up.. dead.(if u have nothing else rdy!

My answer to your nonsense insults.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5910065&postcount=62

I also suggested in another thread that the stun should go back to 30m now with the loss of instant force lift, as sages have no long range mezz/stun, thinking exactly of catching people on fire pits and some more situations that I don't feel the need to elaborate.

i know other class may do more dmg or got a bmg boost too, but sage is range and he does a lot of damage right now with the buff balance sage will be able to destory whole teams if he get's ignored, maybe one of the best dps class on range and with the great tools for kiteing, los and stuff a high threat like snipers.

If you have been counting your damage by final numbers and playing balance with dots all the time, then you have been doing fluffy damage while others actually have been doing the killing. I would take a vanguard, a sentinel or a sniper anyday than yourself sir. Saying that the damage is so huge for sages in 2.0 is rushing ahead without any evidences on what is actually gonna happen in the warzones.

EDIT: My eye actually caught where you are telling me whether I consider instant force lfit as an interrupt, while you are quoting me saying that it is nice as an interrupt. What the heck dude? Do you even read the posts you are replying to? Gosh, I'm now pissed off with the time I wasted replying to you.

I didn't start this topic out of a situational rage mood. I also play a marauder (carnage) and although he gets killed quite often, he kills quite often himself.

In WZs, if my marauder gets attacked, it's a 50% win/loss. If the sorc gets attacked, it's a 90% loss and the remaining 10% is when fighting other sorcs/sages. Worth mentioning that the sorc is better geared than the marauder. Still, the marauder's burst is already 2X that of the sorcerer.

I'm not saying that a sorc should have a caranage mara's burst, but he should have sufficient burst for at least being able to nuke the oponent when he's slowed or at range. Currently, the only thing you can do as a sorc against a non-sorc is to run away. If you manage to do so and he swaps target, you'll find yourself scratching him with a completely ridiculous dmg from behind. If he comes back, you're dead. If not, he's dead, but only if somebody else helps making dmg cause yours is not enough.

I play a dps Sage and i have to say, that's entirely untrue. Playing every class allows you to know the weakness of and strengths of each class (line of sight, closs range, repeated attacks to build some type of bonus) all of those things. If you know them then you'll be able to use that info against them. I'm not saying every 1v1 is a win for me(marauders are op if geared) but they are stronger than you say

I play a dps Sage and i have to say, that's entirely untrue. Playing every class allows you to know the weakness of and strengths of each class (line of sight, closs range, repeated attacks to build some type of bonus) all of those things. If you know them then you'll be able to use that info against them. I'm not saying every 1v1 is a win for me(marauders are op if geared) but they are stronger than you say

This is nonsense. Any equally geared PT, Sniper, Sin, or Guard, or Mara can kill you easy unless they know nothing of Sorc abilites. They are awesome if ignored or somehow manage to pull you into a kite, in group fights that never happens. Otherwise dps sorcs are the weakest pvp class in this game with the possible exception of Mercs.

Are they fun? Hell yeah, you know when you get a kill or don't die you earned it. But balanced? They are balanced healers, that's about it.

I play a dps Sage and i have to say, that's entirely untrue. Playing every class allows you to know the weakness of and strengths of each class (line of sight, closs range, repeated attacks to build some type of bonus) all of those things. If you know them then you'll be able to use that info against them. I'm not saying every 1v1 is a win for me(marauders are op if geared) but they are stronger than you say

It doesn't help to come here and tell people that sorc is fine and then to present the usual indications of LOS etc.You can't LOS forever a melee that wants to kill you, cause as long as you're trying to LOS, you're not doing anything towards winning the fight. You're simply trying to run away so that he doesn't kill you. This might sound plausible if one thinks of a healer avoiding to getting killed by a DPS. But the sage we're talking about is a f. DPS himself! He needs to have a chance to kill the melee, otherwise his class doesn't make any sense.

My answer to your nonsense insults.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=5910065&postcount=62

I also suggested in another thread that the stun should go back to 30m now with the loss of instant force lift, as sages have no long range mezz/stun, thinking exactly of catching people on fire pits and some more situations that I don't feel the need to elaborate.

Yeah this is terrible actually, haven't even realized this nerf until I read that. Apart from going full Madness, sorcs/sages have no ranged instant cc, whether it be root, mezz or a stun.

In a world of 5 second roots and instant 8 second AoE mezzs.

I tell ya, we get no respect!

If melee wants to kill you, then melee will kill you in 2 GCDs. Might take a few jumps on you, but he will.

But hey: If he doesn't notice you, you can range DPS him to 2/3 HP within 8 casted GCDs!

 

If pyro gets close to you, then pyro will 1hit you.

But hey: Don't be a baddy! Just kite him! While doing so, you can do .... absolutely nothing. And sooner or later you'll be eating that granade. But hey: you're not alone, are you? You can win every 2X1 against a pyro! If you kite him that is, cause otherwise he will 1hit you.

 

Assassin comes out of stealth and hits your HP down to 1/3?

Not a problem. You have CCs! He's immune? Well, every class has a hard counter, doesn't it?

 

And anyway: Together with a healer, you can win every 1X1! Wait, that's 2X1.... oh well. Who cares.

And anyway: If the group protects you, you can even do some decent assists with dmg from behind. Not as good as those 7K Gods, but hey! You're not taking any dmg, as long as you're not taking any dmg, so too much burst would be OP!

And anyway: The game is not balanced for 1X1. Other classes demolish everything 1X1, but hey! Te game is not balanced for 1X1!

And anyway: You have that stupid bubble stun on every1. What? You're DPS and have too much CD on the bubble? Well, respecc heal then!

 

So stop being a baboon. The game is not balanced for 1X1, or for pugs. Learn 2p and go scientific with min/max/augment/gearing and also with gameplay and once in a while you might get a 4K crit, or even beat a marauder 1X1. At least if you have a healer helping out. What? That's not 1X1? Well, the game isn't balanced around 1X1, is it?

I've been playing a DPS sorc and I'm a pro and I tell you: DPS sorc is fine. L2p.

Dude what you saying here, just with different words ( you admit it or not )is that you are the best and only an OP class can kill you. Ergo every other class is OP.

As far as losing one on one's.... well, we're actually decent at one on one's where we can actually kite/los and afford to draw the battle out - maybe they should give us a cooldown that summons a pillar for us to kite around

Amen to the pillar. I have a sage and a sorc, both set up for field re-specs. But the toughest guys I have dealt with ever are the ones who know how to use the terrain to their advantage. If they have a DPS PT / Van hiding near by to taunt you then they are tough to kill.

I just got owned by a sage running some sort of balance build while on my deception. now I"m not great on the deception, but I win 90% of the 1v1s that I initiate. it was quite frustrating. I kept getting stunned and...more often, rooted. I couldn't keep him in range in order to do appreciable dps. all he had to do was break and cc during my initial burst and I was done. it was embarrassing.

yes, sages are squishy. my advice: stop trying to run lighting spam. it's only slightly better than gunnery commando.

I just got owned by a sage running some sort of balance build while on my deception. now I"m not great on the deception, but I win 90% of the 1v1s that I initiate. it was quite frustrating. I kept getting stunned and...more often, rooted. I couldn't keep him in range in order to do appreciable dps. all he had to do was break and cc during my initial burst and I was done. it was embarrassing.

 

yes, sages are squishy. my advice: stop trying to run lighting spam. it's only slightly better than gunnery commando.

full balance. almost spammable root.

Not exaclty sure what the OP wants here, I have a sorc and my dps is amazing, you are playing a cloth class, you are gonna take more damage and dish out more. Reality here is everyone just wants a buff so they can have the most OP class in the game... Buff this you better do them all, because there are other classes out there hurting alot worse than a sorc.

clearly a troll.

Yeah we should be a cloth class with amazing BURST dmg. We die fast but we kill fast, however this hasnt been the case for quite some time. THe kill fast classes are the ones that have excellent defensive cooldowns and mitigation, go figure.

Dude what you saying here, just with different words ( you admit it or not )is that you are the best and only an OP class can kill you. Ergo every other class is OP.

Errrhhh... what?! Are you sure that you understood my post?

clearly a troll.

 

Yeah we should be a cloth class with amazing BURST dmg. We die fast but we kill fast, however this hasnt been the case for quite some time. THe kill fast classes are the ones that have excellent defensive cooldowns and mitigation, go figure.

He's likley a under 50 and doesn't yet understand how pathetic a sorcs burst really is. Sorcs pre 50 seem really good.

I'm sure I posted this in here already, but since it isn't a dead thread yet mine as well post it again. Now maybe its different for DPS Sorcs then it is for DPS sages. I wouldn't know as my Sorcerer is a healer and retired. But On my DPS Sage I usually DPS, but sometimes when I notice my teammates health bars going down but not really going up. I stop DPS'ing and I throw some bubbles and heals my teammates way. I know it sounds weird a DPS pretending to be a healer but maybe bioware gave us these heals to actually use. I could be wrong but I doubt it. DPS Sage/Sorcs have by far the best helas for a DPS spec. And far to many of them ignore them all together.

Jenna'syyde

I'm sure I posted this in here already, but since it isn't a dead thread yet mine as well post it again. Now maybe its different for DPS Sorcs then it is for DPS sages. I wouldn't know as my Sorcerer is a healer and retired. But On my DPS Sage I usually DPS, but sometimes when I notice my teammates health bars going down but not really going up. I stop DPS'ing and I throw some bubbles and heals my teammates way. I know it sounds weird a DPS pretending to be a healer but maybe bioware gave us these heals to actually use. I could be wrong but I doubt it. DPS Sage/Sorcs have by far the best helas for a DPS spec. And far to many of them ignore them all together.

 

Jenna'syyde

When you're fighting good players they aren't going to give you a spare GCD to cast bubble on your ally. All of the real bursty DPS classes need only 1 GCD at 4 meters or 10 meters to setup for a 10 meter/15 meter/30 meter follow up. You don't have much time inbetween throwing your kiting tools:

• Force Slow
  
• Creeping Terror/Affliction
  
• Knockback/Overload
  
• Self heal
  
• Self Bubble
  
• Purge-on-self (to remove slow effects, and FORCE CRUSH)
  
• Electrocute
  
• Whirlwind
  

To throw someone a bubble. If you do so you will require another kiting rotation before you can deal damage without taking major blows.

When fighting good players if you allow them to land that crucial move you are going to be taking 4-6K off of your HP pool in the next 1 or 2 GCD's.

If you are facing bad players you will get a chance to throw bubbles on your allies.

When you're fighting good players they aren't going to give you a spare GCD to cast bubble on your ally. All of the real bursty DPS classes need only 1 GCD at 4 meters or 10 meters to setup for a 10 meter/15 meter/30 meter follow up. You don't have much time inbetween your:

 

• Force Slow
  
• Creeping Terror/Affliction
  
• Knockback/Overload
  
• Self heal
  
• Self Bubble
  
• Purge
  
• Electrocute
  
• Whirlwind
  

 

To throw someone a bubble. If you do so you will require another kiting rotation before you can deal damage without taking major blows.

 

When fighting good players if you allow them to land that crucial move you are going to be taking 4-6K off of your HP pool in the next 1 or 2 GCD's.

 

If you are facing bad players you will get a chance to throw bubbles on your allies.

well you might not have the time, but i seem to manage it just fine. You aren't always being attacked by good players. And Even if you are, its still real easy to switch targets throw a bubble and switch back. There is no reason why a DPS sage shouldn't have over 200K healing when your team doesn't have a real healer. I have put up over 450K healing as a dps sage. And Many ganes with 300K+ damage 280K+ healing. But I like winning so I do whatever I can to help win. If we have good healers then yes I will DPS non stop.There is always time for a dps to throw heals. Hell my dps commandos heals are way worst then my sages and I have put up 270k healing in a full dps spec. Bioware gave us these skills to use. Stop letting your teammates die because you are dps.

Jenna'syyde