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adrunktick

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Hey Guys, I have recently gotten my sorcerer to 50 and got her geared up to full campaign with the exception of my offhand which is rakata and my main hand has a 63 hilt. I was under the impression that I could at least pull some decent numbers, but to my surprise, I haven't been able to pull more that around 1450 ( single target on test dummy ) any spec, lightning, madness, hybrid. Can someone actually share parses of theirs, not just throwing out self-proclaimed numbers? Edited by adrunktick
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Hey Guys, I have recently gotten my sorcerer to 50 and got her geared up to full campaign with the exception of my offhand which is rakata and my main hand has a 63 hilt. I was under the impression that I could at least pull some decent numbers, but to my surprise, I haven't been able to pull more that around 1450 ( single target on test dummy ) any spec, lightning, madness, hybrid. Can someone actually share parses of theirs, not just throwing out self-proclaimed numbers?

 

Don't trust the dummy numbers, it's a stationary target so it doesn't compare to ops where you will have to move.

Also, if you're uploading a log to torparse and not clipping te start and end off, you get about 2 seconds where you do 0 damage at the start and a long time where your damage is 0 or just low while you're waiting for dots to fade.

 

So, don't compare dummy numbers to what you do in ops.

 

Some people might recommend lightning, maybe it's good and I couldnt play it but my dps was always lower in lighting than full madness or hybrid. Out of madness and hybrid I'd recommend the hybrid including chain shock instead of parasitism, then work a shock into your rotation when you have force spare.

 

However, when RoTHC comes out with new levels and abilities, it's possible the hybrid will become obsolete depending on what new abilities are introduced.

 

Edit: here's 2 links to a 5 minute parse by a Sage doing 1790 dps on the Operations Dummy on the fleet, he's using a hybrid build which you can see in the second link to his AMR profile which will also show you his gear and stats:

Torparse link: http://www.torparse.com/a/22414/time/1348271689/1348271998/0/Overview

AMR link: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/39ba1319-2a79-4883-92bb-31164a43bb59

 

2nd Edit: That is an old torparse link and the AMR profile has been updated since that torparse link was made, I'd expect he could do around 1820 - 1850 now.

Edited by I_Sithed_MyPants
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Hey Guys, I have recently gotten my sorcerer to 50 and got her geared up to full campaign with the exception of my offhand which is rakata and my main hand has a 63 hilt. I was under the impression that I could at least pull some decent numbers, but to my surprise, I haven't been able to pull more that around 1450 ( single target on test dummy ) any spec, lightning, madness, hybrid. Can someone actually share parses of theirs, not just throwing out self-proclaimed numbers?

 

Are you fully-buffed? Using a stim? 1450 is basically OK, but admittably you should be doing more. My full-Telekinetics Sage (Lightning equivalent) has an average gear slighly better than Rakata (mostly pvp-gear, EWH main- and offhand, so the hilt and armoring give me the Force Bonus I want. :p) and my best run on the dummy was 1560 (using a Rakata Power Adrenal I should get higher, but due to fleet lag I haven't got a decent try at it yet).

 

I belive some hybrids are currently the top-dps choice for Sorcs, but I wouldn't worry about the hypothetical top-dps - just play the spec you enjoy most! For me it's Lightning, just couldn't get into the flow of Madness (or hybrids).

 

One thing that is easy to overlook, on any Sorc-spec, is that if you execute instant abilities at the end of a cast or channel you save time. So you should always go "Force Lightning -> Death Field", "Force Lightning -> Affliction" or "Thundering Blast -> Chain Lightning".

 

On all the specs you get insta-cast abilities on procs (or lowered channel on FL), and it's important to remember that if you are still hard-casting them from time to time, you are simply doing it wrong. So always wait for the procs with these attacks.

 

Also, don't underestimate Recklessness. If the boss doesn't have a specific burn-phase, it's safe to use it on cooldown (as well as on the dummy of course).

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZssrMdoMutzZcM0M.2

Here is the spec I use. Rotations are pretty simple. Keep Affliction up at all times (but try not to overlap). Only cast Thundering Blast if Affliction is up (be careful with Recklessness, TB will exhaust a charge but not benefit from it). Force Lightning and Chain Lightning on proc. Lightning Strike is the basic attack, keep using it regularly so you constantly have 3 stacks of Subversion. (Also helps with Conduction, but it's so RNG that sometimes it just falls off even if you do nothing but spam LS and CL. :D) Crushing Darkness and Shock are to be used when you have the others on CD and there's no danger of dropping Subversion and Conduction. Try to use only casts and channels when Polarity Shift is up.

 

My usual starting rotation is: Affliction -> Polarity Shift -> Lightning Strike -> LS -> LS -> Thundering Blast -> Crushing Darkness -> (Force Lightning if proc) -> LS until PS ends, and then continue with "Priorities".

 

Subversion and Lightning Effusion pretty much make it impossible for you to run out of Force in the course of a 5 minute battle, and with luck you could easily last 10 minutes - granted you don't have to double as a Bubbler, because then all Force management is out of the window. x) But Consumption -> Recklessness -> Unnatural Preservation is still viable for dps-sages to keep up if it starts to fall.

Edited by Memo-
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Hey Guys, I have recently gotten my sorcerer to 50 and got her geared up to full campaign with the exception of my offhand which is rakata and my main hand has a 63 hilt. I was under the impression that I could at least pull some decent numbers, but to my surprise, I haven't been able to pull more that around 1450 ( single target on test dummy ) any spec, lightning, madness, hybrid. Can someone actually share parses of theirs, not just throwing out self-proclaimed numbers?

 

I don't have a recent parse since I've been DPSing with a Vanguard for some time now, but, assuming you aren't

 

a) using a dread guard relic of boundless ages (dread guard, not black hole...the stats are totally different) on cooldown,

b) an exotech resolve stim,

c) an adrenal on cooldown,

d) there's no armor debuff on the target (sorcerors need another class to put such a debuff for them)

d) nobody's is in an ops frame with you bloodthirsting

 

your numbers aren't terribly light of what I'd expect them to be with a sorceror of any spec on an ops dummy with that gear distribution. I seem to remember topping out at roughly 1550 over 5 or so minutes in lightning spec at about your gear level (maybe a few more dread guard armorings) if I did not use any of those things to stat pad.

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d) there's no armor debuff on the target (sorcerors need another class to put such a debuff for them)

d) nobody's is in an ops frame with you bloodthirsting

 

These are a no-no. It's the general consensus that no outside help should be applicable to your dummy parses. In actual operations the situation is different of course, but for measuring the classes own dps-potential, if you are helping with armor debuffs and Bloodthirst you are just skewing the numbers.

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Okay, so I just decided to go back and give my dps another test on a low populated fleet instance :

 

1/12/28 (1570 dps)

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/123105/time/1360093455/1360093760/0/Damage+Dealt

 

3/7/31 (1495 dps)

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/123115/time/1360094058/1360094387/0/Damage+Dealt

 

3/31/7 (1428 dps)

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/123124/time/1360094708/1360095093/0/Damage+Dealt

 

So these are the numbers that I just pulled on Operations Test dummy with 20 people on fleet, using Rakata Stim, Dreadguard +350 Power Relic and a Rakata Attack Adrenal.

 

If anyone can help me improve what's going on here, I do have to say that the top one does pull better numbers, but I get quite bored just spamming force lightning waiting for my dots to get reapplied.

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Here's 2 links to a 5 minute parse by a Sage doing 1790 dps on the Operations Dummy on the fleet, he's using a hybrid build which you can see in the second link to his AMR profile which will also show you his gear and stats:

 

2nd Edit: That is an old torparse link and the AMR profile has been updated since that torparse link was made, I'd expect he could do around 1820 - 1850 now.

 

Yes, that is an old parse and it was also prior to 1.6. However, that character is also equipped from head to toe in 150 rated gear, so his numbers are going to be higher.

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Yes, that is an old parse and it was also prior to 1.6. However, that character is also equipped from head to toe in 150 rated gear, so his numbers are going to be higher.

 

That parse was from when he was in full campaign gear.

 

Heres a link from my sorc, from when it was in a mix of 58/61 gear doing 1688 dps:

http://www.torparse.com/a/22639/time/1348240585/1348241074/0/Overview

 

You can compare the damage dealt graph and number to see what's different.

 

Could you also post your stats including bonus damage, crit chance, crit multiplier etc..

 

Would be helpful if you could make a character on Ask Mr Robot and then post it, then we can see the exact gear youre using, for example if your gear completely min/maxed for campaign level, or are you just using the mods you got in the campaign gear?

Edited by I_Sithed_MyPants
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These are a no-no. It's the general consensus that no outside help should be applicable to your dummy parses. In actual operations the situation is different of course, but for measuring the classes own dps-potential, if you are helping with armor debuffs and Bloodthirst you are just skewing the numbers.

 

No-no or not, if someone's producing numbers in the 1850s to 1900s with a sorc, that's what they're doing.

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I looked at the graphs for your log and my log that I linked, looks like you didn't use shock in your rotation, if you take chain shock using shock when you have spare force will increase your dps. It's more useful then Parasitism, an almost useless heal.

 

A quick comparison of the 2 damage charts, both using the same talent build & the same 5 minute duration:

Yours: http://www.torparse.com/a/123105/time/1360093455/1360093760/0/Damage+Dealt

Mine: http://www.torparse.com/a/22639/time/1348240585/1348241074/0/Overview

 

Yours

Lightning Strike: 2105dmg (1 hit so i'll assume miss click)

Crushing Darkness: 29572

Death Field: 62344

Crushed (Force): 66771

Affliction (Force): 67640

Shocked (Force Lightning): 244283

Shock: Not used

TOTAL: 472715

APM: 27.8

Crit: 44%

Crit dmg: 291499

 

 

Mine

Lightning Strike: Not used

Crushing Darkness: 28168

Death Field: 67593

Crushed (Force): 65977

Affliction (Force): 64396

Shocked (Force Lightning): 247052

Shock: 39420

TOTAL: 512606

APM: 30.35

Crit: 40%

Crit dmg: 293219

 

 

Looking at this shows:

1. Your crit might be a bit too high, and your surge rating might be a bit too low.

2. Your actions per minute might be too low to increase dps, try speeding up your rotation.

3. Both of your dots & force lighting did similar / more damage than mine so your power doesnt seem to be a problem.

3. You didn't use Shock / Chain shock which adds almost 40k damage.

4. Make sure you use recklessness correctly, always use one charge on Death Field, and the other charge on Force Lightning, never on anything else.

5. If you take the 40k damage from Shock / Chain Shock away from my total, our totals are similar. Use Chain Shock, it will increase your dps.

Edited by I_Sithed_MyPants
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I'll have my ask mr. robot profile up after I get home from class, but I just did another parse trying to mimic yours and parsed lower than my original, so something might be up, we'll see. I'll get back to you shortly.

 

Hybrid isn't the only way to go, it takes practice as well to know exactly when to use shock, if you use it at the wrong time you end up draining too much force. For example, in my parse it shows I used it 27 times in 5 minutes, that's really only 5 times every minute, with a 6 second cooldown on shock. So it's not an ability to use every time its off cooldown, about once every 12 seconds, maybe less.

 

However, hybrid isn't the only way to go, the sorcerer dps in my ops group uses the 31 point madness build and still does really good dps*. The chain shock build may only be better on the ops dummy because you get to stand still, the extra dot from full madness might prove more useful in an operation.

 

*Good dps for a sorcerer.

Edited by I_Sithed_MyPants
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Can i just ask what parser you all use? Swtorcombatlogs closed and since then i have parsed my dps.

 

With that being said I am a full madness sorc and ive been able to pull 1500 and on rare occassion 1600dps when i had still been parsing myself. A Lightning spec in my previous guild had hit 1700 on single target (im assuming because the forked lightning and such). So i would say for either Full tree spec 1500 would be about average. If you want more though put more Power into your gear. Crit and Surge should only be at about 35%,75% respectively and thats easy to maintain. Get power mods, maybe DG relic of boundless age or/and a DG dps-based relic, and Rakata or Exotech stims. Add that with the top gear you can get atm (whether you buy 63mods or your guild is doing TFBHM or ECHM/NM) and you should see a large increase in your dps.

 

* WH relics for +121 power also

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The best option for PvE damage is hybrid spec, you can see the build and my gear here.

The spec is pretty easy to use and doesn't take long to learn, you just keep up DoTs and death field and use lightning as a filler. This is a pretty good guide to the hybrid build (in republic terms). I used to run lightning but between the in game lag and the loss of dps during movement I switched to hybrid and noticed a big boost in dps (100-200). I linked a parse of karagga on sm below as proof that it does pretty good dps.

 

 

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/124741/30/0/Damage+Dealt

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Couple of things about your gear, you need to replace any lettered mods like "Mettle mod 25A." Youll also want to replace the Black hole earpiece with the rakata one, it has almost 20 more willpower.You should also work towards getting custom belt and bracers.One last note, replace the enhancement in you helm with a quick savant one to better balance your stats.
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Ok took a look, here's a few notes:

1. The earpiece is definitely a problem, but not too bad. It could be quite hard to get the rakata one again as you have it drop first, so we'll stick with the bh earpiece.

2. Moddable bracers and belt will definitely be needed also, however you will have to buy 2 resolve 26 / 27 armorings.

3. Really need to get rid of all of the 56 / 58 modifications.

4. Any mods with a letter such as Advanced Aptitude mod 24A need to be replaced asap, never use any lettered mods, only the 26 or 27 version without letter.

5. You should be using the Dread Guard Relic of Elemental Transcendence as a Force user, your rapid dots and force lightning ticks give it more chance to proc. Also Elemental relic damage is based on your Force crit, where Internal relic damage is based on Tech crit.

5a. The Dread Guard Relic of Boundless Ages that you're using is also a good relic, however the proc dot relic usually proves to be better, but not by much, you could say its personal preference.

 

I made a theoretical character on amr with what would be Best in Slot 61 gear, so it's all obtainable through black hole / daily comms. You might need to grind comms for a bit as I saw quite a few 58 and 56 modifications. This is what you really want a 61 geared sorc to look like (not including the earpiece):

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/d2707a44-28af-4387-9fef-fc3e3e7c19c6

 

Edit: The armor shells in the amr that I linked don't really matter, what matters is the stats.

Edited by I_Sithed_MyPants
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Ok took a look, here's a few notes:

1. The earpiece is definitely a problem, but not too bad. It could be quite hard to get the rakata one again as you have it drop first, so we'll stick with the bh earpiece.

2. Moddable bracers and belt will definitely be needed also, however you will have to buy 2 resolve 26 / 27 armorings.

3. Really need to get rid of all of the 56 / 58 modifications.

4. Any mods with a letter such as Advanced Aptitude mod 24A need to be replaced asap, never use any lettered mods, only the 26 or 27 version without letter.

5. You should be using the Dread Guard Relic of Elemental Transcendence as a Force user, your rapid dots and force lightning ticks give it more chance to proc. Also Elemental relic damage is based on your Force crit, where Internal relic damage is based on Tech crit.

5a. The Dread Guard Relic of Boundless Ages that you're using is also a good relic, however the proc dot relic usually proves to be better, but not by much, you could say its personal preference.

 

I made a theoretical character on amr with what would be Best in Slot 61 gear, so it's all obtainable through black hole / daily comms. You might need to grind comms for a bit as I saw quite a few 58 and 56 modifications. This is what you really want a 61 geared sorc to look like (not including the earpiece):

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/d2707a44-28af-4387-9fef-fc3e3e7c19c6

 

Edit: The armor shells in the amr that I linked don't really matter, what matters is the stats.

 

 

Yeah, I basically knew what I had to upgrade, and Ive been using a program called "SimulationCraft" which is supposed to work in conjunction with AskMrRobot, showing the capabilities of a class with a certain build, and it's telling me that my current gear level should be able to pull 1700 or so, now whether or not this is true, I'm not exactly sure, but I calculated with my merc and it got my dps number exactly after a 6 minute parse. However, that's not so much what I'm concerned about, I don't know why or how, but I can start off really well on a parse, hitting over 2k for that initial burst damage after relics and recklessness, but after I start to level out, my dps slowly just decreases and decreases and decreases, til I hit as low as 1300s. So I know I'm *********** up my rotation somewhere. In madness, I've tried applying my dots at different times with deathfield + recklessness to keep my dps going, while putting all my dots up at the same time with DF and then just FLing until the dots need to be re-applied doing around 1500 dps. With the SimC calculator, it was saying full lightning should be doing about 1700 or so, with madness behind....contrary to what everyone on here says. But for ***** and giggles I wanted to try and see how high I could get. (I prefer full lightning anyway, its more fun to me). I was using priority list as so: Affliction, Thundering blast, polarity shift, CD, LS until one final tick and TB again. Use FL, CL if proc'd. Then in priority: Re-apply affliction if almost down, Thundering blast if affliction is up, CD, LS or Force Lightning. Chain lightning with Barrage and Force lightning with Barrage. However, it seems I lose dps when casting TB and CD. Especially if I do TB then CD. So I tried filling that in between time with LS and force lightnings then re-applying dots or a long cast, but didn't see any improvements in dps. So if anyone has any thing that could help with my rotation, let me know, or tell me what everyone else is doing. I'll play the spec that pulls the most numbers, just want to useful in an operation setting.

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Yeah, I basically knew what I had to upgrade, and Ive been using a program called "SimulationCraft" which is supposed to work in conjunction with AskMrRobot, showing the capabilities of a class with a certain build, and it's telling me that my current gear level should be able to pull 1700 or so, now whether or not this is true, I'm not exactly sure, but I calculated with my merc and it got my dps number exactly after a 6 minute parse. However, that's not so much what I'm concerned about, I don't know why or how, but I can start off really well on a parse, hitting over 2k for that initial burst damage after relics and recklessness, but after I start to level out, my dps slowly just decreases and decreases and decreases, til I hit as low as 1300s. So I know I'm *********** up my rotation somewhere. In madness, I've tried applying my dots at different times with deathfield + recklessness to keep my dps going, while putting all my dots up at the same time with DF and then just FLing until the dots need to be re-applied doing around 1500 dps. With the SimC calculator, it was saying full lightning should be doing about 1700 or so, with madness behind....contrary to what everyone on here says. But for ***** and giggles I wanted to try and see how high I could get. (I prefer full lightning anyway, its more fun to me). I was using priority list as so: Affliction, Thundering blast, polarity shift, CD, LS until one final tick and TB again. Use FL, CL if proc'd. Then in priority: Re-apply affliction if almost down, Thundering blast if affliction is up, CD, LS or Force Lightning. Chain lightning with Barrage and Force lightning with Barrage. However, it seems I lose dps when casting TB and CD. Especially if I do TB then CD. So I tried filling that in between time with LS and force lightnings then re-applying dots or a long cast, but didn't see any improvements in dps. So if anyone has any thing that could help with my rotation, let me know, or tell me what everyone else is doing. I'll play the spec that pulls the most numbers, just want to useful in an operation setting.

 

I've never played lightning spec so I can't really comment on the priority list, probably is more fun to play though with the cooler looking attacks, however I'm a firm believer Madness will do more in ops with all the dots.

 

The thing with SimCraft is it calculates the theoretical dps with 0 human error and 0 movement, two things which occur a lot during operations. So it's not completely realistic numbers for ops comparison.

 

If you're interested Madness rotation / priority list would be something like:

Opener - Affliction > Recklessness > Relic > Death Field > Force Lightning (Wrath proc) > Crushing Darkness > Creeping Terror.

Priority List:

1. Death Field

2. Refresh DoT's as soon as they wear off (make sure you don't clip any dots)

2a. Only refresh Crushing Darkness with Wrath proc

3. Force Lightning (force regen from this)

4. Recklessness (Force Lightning & Death Field)

5. Relic

 

Or Hybrid rotation / priority list would be:

Opener - Affliction > Recklessness > Relic > Death Field > Force Lightning > Crushing Darkness (Wrath proc) > Shock (above 80% force & hope for chain shock proc).

Priority List:

1. Death Field

2. Refresh DoT's as soon as they wear off (make sure you don't clip any dots)

2a. Only refresh Crushing Darkness with Wrath proc

3. Force Lightning (force regen from this)

4. Shock (above 80% force and hope for chain shock proc!)

5. Recklessness (Force Lightning & Death Field)

6. Relic

 

Also if you're interested, on Sunday I'll be doing TFB hm, I can get our Sorcerer dps to combat log and I'll post it here so you can see the dps he does during ops?

Edited by I_Sithed_MyPants
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If you're interested Madness rotation / priority list would be something like:

Opener - Affliction > Recklessness > Relic > Death Field > Force Lightning (Wrath proc) > Crushing Darkness > Creeping Terror.

Priority List:

1. Death Field

2. Refresh DoT's as soon as they wear off (make sure you don't clip any dots)

2a. Only refresh Crushing Darkness with Wrath proc

3. Force Lightning (force regen from this)

4. Recklessness (Force Lightning & Death Field)

5. Relic

 

I was under the impression that death field should never be used right after recklessness because it eats both charges. My opener has always been affliction > recklessness > relic > adrenal > force lightning > death field > crushing darkness (wrath proc) > creeping terror, and then basically the same priority list you are using.

 

Thoughts?

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I was under the impression that death field should never be used right after recklessness because it eats both charges. My opener has always been affliction > recklessness > relic > adrenal > force lightning > death field > crushing darkness (wrath proc) > creeping terror, and then basically the same priority list you are using.

 

Thoughts?

 

Deathfield only eats both charges if it hits 2 targets. Against a single target boss, you want to use recklessness on a deathfield and a force lightning.

 

You never want to use recklessness on crushing darkness in PvE because it won't apply to fully half CD's damage (the dot does not benefit).

 

Edit: in the case of multiple targets eating both deathfield charges, it depends whether or not that's what you want. In some cases (specifically Jarg and Sorno, who you're probably double dotting), that's exactly what you want to do as much damage as possible.

 

Edit #2: you're right that it's "safer" to use force lightning then deathfield, but understand, if you're saving deathfields to line them up with something instead of using them immediately, you're likely going to lose DPS unless there's some strange boss mechanic, such as the drouks being too close together. Over a long enough fight, that'll add up.

Edited by Larry_Dallas
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