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No mention of GSF in roadmap for all of 2015?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
No mention of GSF in roadmap for all of 2015?

Verain's Avatar


Verain
01.25.2015 , 06:26 PM | #1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrazac9yIAU

Am I missing something? These all sound pretty awesome (especially continuation of class stories), but I'd definitely expect new maps, a new game mode, and new ships. I mean, this is a whole year, right?

Maybe it just didn't make it into the announcement. Lets go with that.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
01.25.2015 , 06:48 PM | #2
Well, I suppose I can pocket my sub then. If there's nothing to save req for, my current 5million should be more than sufficient without the subscriber boost.
http://fractalsponge.net
Xi'ao - The Shadowlands

DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
01.26.2015 , 10:54 AM | #3
Luckily I only heard them talk about first quarter 2015, stuff for Feb-April. Love the continuation of class stories, and the outfit designer could be cool (especially if I can get more pilot suit options) but it is really lacking in basically everything I would hope for and expect over the course of the next year.

No mention at all of GSF

No mention of new PvP maps / other additions

No mention of Super Server / Cross Server

has me decidedly worried this upcoming year. Really hoping they have good things coming because first quarter appears to be several neat things that I don't care about all that much *shrug*
Ahazi Server Refugee (Beta - Shutdown) RIP TIE & Twin Ion
[Circle of Emnity] - Pincer - Ocula Pilot - The Bastion
New to GSF? Look Here!. // And Here!

Verain's Avatar


Verain
01.26.2015 , 11:06 AM | #4
My overall concern with SWTOR is that some egghead will decided to move the license around the moment it stops generating cash hand over pseudopod. Obviously, that would be at a much higher level than we'll hear about unless it actually happens, but that's the biggest threat to the whole game.

Certainly, the roadmap is pretty light on details. But if they knew they were adding a new map to GSF, they would have mentioned that. Man we need a new map so hard. I think that Lost Shipyards TDM being 20% of maps makes balancing Gunships hard-ish, and Kuat Mesas Dom coming up 531% of the time definitely makes bomber balance hard. I would also love to not get chain KMDed or chain Denoned. Denon I like so much because it rewards hyper beacons and beacon counterplay, as well as mobility talents and missiles for the big distances. I feel it's the best designed map when it comes to ship types in general, but it's just such a campaign and it hurts to have it chain pop.

More maps would be sweet, wouldn't he have said that though? I'd actually be legit sad if I thought we were getting nothing in all of 2015, so I just will go ahead and not believe that thing.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Caernos's Avatar


Caernos
01.26.2015 , 11:34 AM | #5
While I am excited to see that class story will be continuing and that there will be a new playable race (whenever they can fit Togruta in; predicting 3.2 but we'll see) I too am disappointed that GSF is not receiving any attention.

That said, If we've learned anything from the great GSF crash of 3.0, it's that we can get things fixed if we pilots work together and make a concerted effort to push the devs for attention and a response. Whenever there's a livestream or a cantina tour, we need to try and get someone there to ask GSF questions; can we get tooltip fixes, what happened to the balance changes, are there new maps coming. When the devs make posts about the future of swtor, we need to be there asking about the future of GSF; can we expect a new game type soon, what about new cosmetic items, is the fifth ship type still indefinitely postponed? I say that we need to start pushing (firmly but in a non-confrontational manner) and show that we too deserve attention and a response.

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Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
01.26.2015 , 12:42 PM | #6
As much as I love GSF (and I do love it), I think this forum is a little bit delusional in its expectations. I say this as as a veteran project manager of the gaming industry who has to make hard cuts all the time.

Recent events have shown that GSF is casually butchered by lapses in version control. That means it likely has no regression test process. The dev team for GSF, which used to play it at lunch and analyze telemetry, has likely been scattered to the wind to work on other features or games.

Bugs are only acknowledged and addressed when we shout loud enough (in general forums and /bug reports, not this forum which is unread by BioWare). And then, we likely get maybe one junior dev assigned to unfrak the version control bugs and get GSF back to something resembling its "normal" state.

We are a niche community on a niche game that is fighting to maintain its relevance and revenue in a dying genre. Moreover, our pet feature is the most divorced from the game's central pillar--story driven ground content. We are more eccentric and "off message" than Operations, than Ranked Warzones, than general Warzones.

GSF has enormous headwinds against broader adoption. Unlike Warzones, we have no bolster mechanic. We have no PvE practice areas. GSF is a wondrous, amazing, but super-intimidating masterpiece duct-taped onto a theme-park choose-your-own-adventure story that 90% of players barely manage to muddle through.

With SoR, BioWare announced they were returning to their core strength--story based ground content. They discovered with the x12 experiment, and SoR itself, that story content is what moves the needle on getting people back to the game.

We should not expect any new GSF content ... perhaps ever. We should not expect any major component or ship redesigns ... ever. At best, we can hope for a slight tweak of the numbers, as Verain proposed in his other thread. The changes to GSF have to be so minor and safe that an intern can do them by tweaking some XML and data files.

I have been clinging to the hope that the "balance pass" which was mentioned half a year ago, in which they acknowledged that certain components and combos were too bursty, is still on a backlog somewhere, somewhen, and that it has not been marked "Cut".

I have been clinging to the hope that the "better than cross server" thing is still going to happen for Warzones, and that when it does, we can scream loud enough for BioWare to make it apply to GSF too.

Then, and only then, if those two things both happen, does the GSF population have a chance of growing large enough to warrant real new content like a map or ship.

Our only solace to be had from the producer's letter is that GSF was treated with the same general crappiness as Warzones. At least we can then maintain the delusion that PvP content in general is not the focus of BioWare's "message" at the moment, and thus there may yet be some secret GSF content in the backlog.

But I'd rather face the likely reality and come to terms with it, rather than cling to unreasonable delusions.
Shayd / Callem / RK-4X / "Trynt" - Leader of <Eclipse Squadron>, The Ebon Hawk
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
01.26.2015 , 01:21 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
As much as I love GSF (and I do love it), I think this forum is a little bit delusional in its expectations.
A little cheerleading isn't that bad of a thing.

Quote:
Recent events have shown that GSF is casually butchered by lapses in version control. That means it likely has no regression test process.
Oh, they must have an automated test, but I doubt very much they have test procedures for all of everything. I'm sure they saw that the game could launch, that sort of thing. Unless they got a crash or something I doubt they would see something like "this talent point fails".

Quote:
The dev team for GSF, which used to play it at lunch and analyze telemetry, has likely been scattered to the wind to work on other features or games.
Assuredly, but that also means that some of them will be put back and retasked with GSF at some point. I concur with the "we did not have devs for six months" theory, but I'm not sure I concur with "we have no devs currently".

Quote:
We are a niche community on a niche game that is fighting to maintain its relevance and revenue in a dying genre.
I was actually having a really good discussion about whether MMOs are dying with my ex. Her main point is that MMOs have reached a peak amount of saturation for their game type, as all of the barriers to entry were removed over the last few years, resulting in a kind of "peak MMO". I find that compelling, but I also think that we'll see MMOs simply side-squish in a clever direction. Top tier MMOs have begun adding minigames (such as the WoW pet battles and garrisons) in addition to established tiers of play, and also top tier MMOs have added whole subgames (such as GSF). I think the MMO as a synonym for "game that copies WoW" is a big issue. WoW should sort of be considered its own genre at this point, and I think we'll see MMOs that incorporate elements from mobile games and classic games instead of the endgame mostly being "raid or die", with a strange and unsupported pvp gear grind as a kind of side quest.

So while I think that MMOs are a "dying genre", I think that this is more a result of the players becoming immunized about the "less fun, more addiction" model of gameplay that has been jammed down our throat, more a representation of bait ("play the game solo to level up and become powerful!") and switch ("...and then commit to a schedule of repetitive play or be left in the dust!"). I think that whatever emerges from this will also be an MMO, but it will have to focus more on fun and story than on addicting the playerbase and starting a treadmill.


Quote:
We should not expect any new GSF content ... perhaps ever.
I think that's far too negative a tack to take. The game can't be so profoundly lacking in players that it isn't worth some new stuff. We constantly see people in the game, and the whole thing was designed to be easy and cheap to modify.

Quote:
The changes to GSF have to be so minor and safe that an intern can do them by tweaking some XML and data files.
Well, I think our bugfixes are mostly that easy, and we don't have them. I think if we get devs, even a little bit, we'll get some actual balance passes. But yea, I did focus on easy ones for this reason- I wanted the community to discuss small tweaks that would make the game broader and better. I was very disappointed when so many of the responses were not that at all. A dev would find good info in there, but would have to blaze past a lot of off topic stuff.


Quote:
I have been clinging to the hope that the "balance pass" which was mentioned half a year ago, in which they acknowledged that certain components and combos were too bursty, is still on a backlog somewhere, somewhen, and that it has not been marked "Cut".
As do I. Honestly, if there's no changes for GSF, I'll be really sad. I just don't believe it would be abandoned for another year. I just don't get why it wouldn't be on their roadmap.

Quote:
I have been clinging to the hope that the "better than cross server" thing is still going to happen for Warzones
They backpedaled on that so hard that they broke the wheels on their stupid hipster fixies.

Nothing is better than cross server or mega server. Nothing would help this game more. If warzones get it, GSF will to- it clearly uses the same logic. And man, that would be super. The fact that they aren't all over this intensely needed action tells me that they may not have the ability or funding to EVER do it, however.


Quote:
Our only solace to be had from the producer's letter is that GSF was treated with the same general crappiness as Warzones.
I dunno, he at least discussed new pvp seasons. That implies that they will be making new gear, balancing passes at pvp, etc. If they had announced a new GSF map or mode, that would all by itself be amazing. It's possible, VERY possible, that they have GSF stuff planned but no exact knowledge of WHICH GSF elements they will push forward on... but I still would have expected a shoutout in some way except "...we did GSF in 2014, but in 2015 we totally won't!"




Seriously though, they can't have abandoned GSF so hard that they have 0 plans for it in all of 2015.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
01.26.2015 , 01:30 PM | #8
That logic is hilarious (not anyone here, the dev's mind you)

Dev's: The playerbase of GSF does not warrant additional development

Players: I don't play GSF due to lack of development

Kind of a vicious circle heh. IMO if they continue to ignore GSF it will die within 1 year and become "space on rails v2.0" IE something they wasted development resources on and then abandoned. If however they did some small things with continual development (new maps, ships, possibly a game mode, and especially cross server) then it would continue to draw players, earn cash, and perhaps rebound into a favored part of SWTOR.

I think their choice is between no effort which makes GSF a waste of their time or a minimal to moderate investment in which case the games value increases many fold. I know which is the smarter path but do the project managers and whip drivers?
Ahazi Server Refugee (Beta - Shutdown) RIP TIE & Twin Ion
[Circle of Emnity] - Pincer - Ocula Pilot - The Bastion
New to GSF? Look Here!. // And Here!

Verain's Avatar


Verain
01.26.2015 , 02:00 PM | #9
Eh, GSF is vastly too awesome to be like the space rails game. Even if they dropped it now, I've had oodles of fun in it. The space rails game was a favorite of mine too, because it felt like every day I logged in I had this ship that I could go do stuff in. I was waiting for the free-flight version, of course.

Eventually they really sunk the Starfox-like version. First they removed almost all the rewards, because it was possible to bot it. Given that you can bot a ludicrous number of top tier games (Pacman, Super Mario, Metroid) that is not, IMO a reason to strip the rewards, but likely a solid one to make enough changes that botting it is poor. Second they added a painfully hard tier that had very little wiggle room in how you completed it, and combined that with turning the components into cartel market purchases instead of engineering components (and tuned the content such that nothing was challenging except the new content with the cartel components, and that the new components were almost mandatory for the new runs).

Finally, there's no tuning or changing the ship meaningfully, so the replay value is very low compared to what it should or could be.

Space on rails offers no options. GSF offers a ton. It will never be a failure like Starfox-lite became.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
01.27.2015 , 06:10 PM | #10
I love GSF but if you think ANY more updates are coming, you need to take a deep breath and learn to accept reality.

GSF is in "maintenance mode". SWTOR (the entire game) is obviously a fully supported product but Bioware took a long hard look at ROI, fan interest and their own skill set and decided the GSF portion is going to maintenance mode only.

Accept it and move on. Hey, I'm not happy about it either but its time to get over it.
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