Just looking over your build I would say you are low on acc for ataru form. Also looking at your spec Enraged Assault is a waste of 2 points IMO I never find myself rage starved as carnage, but this may be because I put those 2 points into Cloak of Carnage instead. My other stats are almost identical to yours 1137 primary damage 651 bonus with the stim, difference is that my crit is 29.9 and my acc is 105.4. I have 1853 str with the stim.

Edit: My bad I have 1117 primary and 631 bonus because I changed my power crystals for crit to get up to almost 30%, but I may go back on that after some testing.

Just looking over your build I would say you are low on acc for ataru form. Also looking at your spec Enraged Assault is a waste of 2 points IMO I never find myself rage starved as carnage, but this may be because I put those 2 points into Cloak of Carnage instead. My other stats are almost identical to yours 1137 primary damage 651 bonus with the stim, difference is that my crit is 29.9 and my acc is 105.4. I have 1853 str with the stim.

 

Edit: My bad I have 1117 primary and 631 bonus because I changed my power crystals for crit to get up to almost 30%, but I may go back on that after some testing.

You have low accuracy. I have 99.67% melee accuracy and 109.67% force accuracy. You're build is inferior to mine. Battering assault adds a lot of DPS which you are shorting yourself for no reason. Cloak of Carnage isn't needed because if you're good and manage your CD's correctly that becomes a waste of points.

I have 105.4 mele acc and 115.4 force acc so yeah mine is higher than yours.

And any top Marauder will tell you that you have wayyyyy too much Accuracy. That is just plain overkill.

And any top Marauder will tell you that you have wayyyyy too much Accuracy. That is just plain overkill.

The only way to shave any of that acc is to go with surge over it, with 75% crit multiplier seems that the min maxing would make the extra damage from bypassing defence greater than the extra crit damage from surge due to the heavy DR after 75%. Im just looking for answers not trying to argue. It just looks like those points in acc would be wasted as surge.

Just looking over your build I would say you are low on acc for ataru form. Also looking at your spec Enraged Assault is a waste of 2 points IMO I never find myself rage starved as carnage, but this may be because I put those 2 points into Cloak of Carnage instead. My other stats are almost identical to yours 1137 primary damage 651 bonus with the stim, difference is that my crit is 29.9 and my acc is 105.4. I have 1853 str with the stim.

 

Edit: My bad I have 1117 primary and 631 bonus because I changed my power crystals for crit to get up to almost 30%, but I may go back on that after some testing.

Agreed on the accuracy, i think you can drop a little surge for a little bit more accuracy afterall as carnage 99% of our damage is weapon damage and all it takes is one obfuscate to hurt our dps

As for enraged assault vs cloak of carnage, in ranked as a mara you're basically a non target its pointless to target a mara in ranked. They'll just force cloak, shout to their healer, and now they're back up. Most of the top tiered teams learn to just CC mara's instead making those two points in cloak of carnage not as good as enraged assault (in ranked).

Also, i still fully believe in full expertise build. The 1200 expertise build just leaves you too squishy and once a top tier team realizes this all it takes is chain cc'ing you before you can pop defensive cd's and you're dead. I can't tell you how many times ive survived while being focused WITHOUT undying rage with less than 1k hp while saving a node.

The only way to shave any of that acc is to go with surge over it, with 75% crit multiplier seems that the min maxing would make the extra damage from bypassing defence greater than the extra crit damage from surge due to the heavy DR after 75%. Im just looking for answers not trying to argue. It just looks like those points in acc would be wasted as surge.

i think you can up your surge to 76-77%

I dont use battering assault as damage i use it as a rage builder, maybe I am shorting myself.

Yeah I use it for a rage builder too... Why waste the rage? you can do more damage that way.

Also, i still fully believe in full expertise build. The 1200 expertise build just leaves you too squishy and once a top tier team realizes this all it takes is chain cc'ing you before you can pop defensive cd's and you're dead. I can't tell you how many times ive survived while being focused WITHOUT undying rage with less than 1k hp while saving a node.

2% damage and like 1% damage reduction or like 4-6% more damage is your choice.

Yeah I use it for a rage builder too... Why waste the rage? you can do more damage that way.

Ill give it a shot

I'm probably missing something or skimmed over it; Why do you gear crit so low? 25% buffed seems terrible.

Because Force Scream has a 100% crit so it's about making that FS hit as hard as possible. 25% crit buffed is still very reasonable, I also have all 4 class buffs.

I have a screenshot of a force scream crit with bloodthirst + red bubble critting a guy for 6796. It was gorgeous, so close to 7k! A Force scream crit at nearly 7k....

so one ability every 9 seconds is worth the loss of 10-15% crit rate in exchange for x power? I don't see it.

Then nobody can help you. You're setup will never outdps my setup. Crits don't mean **** when they don't hurt. The amount of Power you give up to have "10%-15%" more crit means your force scream crits are hitting for 3.5-4k wheras mine are going from 5k-6k.

Then nobody can help you. You're setup will never outdps my setup. Crits don't mean **** when they don't hurt. The amount of Power you give up to have "10%-15%" more crit means your force scream crits are hitting for 3.5-4k wheras mine are going from 5k-6k.

You're not my role-model and I'm not looking for your help. I asked you to further clarify your original conclusion that 20% unbuffed critical rating is better than 30% or even 35% unbuffed citing that the additional power increase is better for pvp. Your only argument stated thus-far is that one abilty on a 9s CD autocrits and you've made no mention of the other abilitys that do not autocrit in this thread. Surely you could be right, but believing you are right and just dismissing questions is not the same. Put in the work and explain it or simply ignore the request for clarification if you're going to be all grumpy about it.

I'm not fully optimized yet and I have 1208 expertise, 623.1 Bonus Damage, 25.87% crit, 78.80% surge, 98.67% Accuracy, and 20.1k HP fully buffed with Stim. (I also have all 4 class buffs so that helps)

 

How did you achieve that bonus damage while still having 20k HP?

Looking at your Mr. Robot it would suggest you have 19K HP, not 20k.

How did you achieve that bonus damage while still having 20k HP?

Looking at your Mr. Robot it would suggest you have 19K HP, not 20k.

I finally just finished itemizing my character. I am now at 19k HP, 1208 expertise, 78.80% surge, 25.44% crit, and 655.7 melee bonus damage (1000.0 Force Bonus Damage).

Putting finishing touches on my PvP movie shortly.

Then nobody can help you. You're setup will never outdps my setup. Crits don't mean **** when they don't hurt. The amount of Power you give up to have "10%-15%" more crit means your force scream crits are hitting for 3.5-4k wheras mine are going from 5k-6k.

Wow, that's harsh.

The math doesn't make sense for your logic. I haven't parsed Carnage in a long time, but I believe Blade Storm constitutes only 20 - 30% of your total damage. Taking the higher number, that depresses 1 Crit to 0.7 of its original value, making that 1% crit = 1.25% increase in damage. I'm assuming you give up 250 Crit for 250 Power, which will give you roughly 33% crit. So for 57.5 bonus damage (5% damage), you'll be losing 10% damage.

Long story short, degrading your crit to those levels will be detrimental to your total damage.

There are some really good ideas here, but it seems like all the eggs are being put into the force scream basket. 7k vs 4k is nice and all, but that doesn't seem like it would work out too well in general. I'd imagine the typical start up is charge to gore+ravage then force scream. With this set up, it would likely be a kill on someone caught without CDs or not knowing how to react. 7k per 9 seconds, with massacre (mostly non-crits) peppered in doesn't seem overly impressive, since carnage banks quite a bit on ravage.

No doubt the vindicator armoring is a great idea, but the loss of all that crit to boost one skill doesn't seem worth it, unless you do a lot of dueling.

If force scream accounts for even 20% of the total damage a carnage marauder does, then power is without a doubt better, period. I've done the math, power vs crit is extremely close with ideal setups in terms of exchanging the ratings 1 for 1. So if the math that I have done (and you can look it up in the post "Power Vs Crit and YOU" in this forum) suggest less than a 1% difference between power setups vs crit setups, and you throw in a 20% decrease in the effectiveness of crit due to force scream auto crits, power suddenly becomes the clear winner.

Basically, what you "feel like" or "think might be true" doesn't mean anything unless you've done the math. Also, in pvp, especially rateds, burst damage is what kills people. You can swing massacres all day getting more crits and doing good consistent damage with it, but you'll kill someone much easier by getting a 5.5-7k force scream crit on them after 2-3 massacres or a ravage.