With heavy snare and no escape abilities can be used while being damaged.

Why? Because this is the only change in WZ mechanic that I can think of that can help balance the map without nerfing Scoundrel/Operative roll. It is complete BS that they can roll through a fire trap while it is on and get past it taking only 1/3 of their health bar as damage. The chain rolling and bypassing every trap in a roll that is designed to stop the character is WZ mechanic breaking, because they are the only class that can do this.

Yes, other classes have ways to bypass traps and obstacles too. But their abilities have a cooldown and/or require a target, either friendly or hostile, which means coordination between allies or mistakes from enemies, is required. Chain rolling is the only ability without cooldown that allows bypassing traps consecutively and solo.

Compare to other classes’ abilities to bypass traps:

Knight/Warriors – Jump, either to ally or enemy, requires a target and has a cooldown. Sentinel/Marauder’s speed boost requires stacks, which require time to build.

Consular/Inquisitor – Force Speed has a cooldown. Sage/Sorc pull requires a ball carrier target, which is not much different from passing.

Gunslinger/Sniper – Roll has a cooldown.

Trooper/Bounty Hunter – Hold the Line/Hydraulic Override has a cooldown.

Scoundrel/Operative – Roll that can be spammed; then use energy regen abilities and spam again. Does not require target and has no cooldown. They can also self-cleanse to remove root and snare effect from self and keep rolling.

This is very important because a new Huttball map will be coming out. If traps are designed to stop characters from going straight to the goal line without pause, then the trap damage needs to act like electro net and actually stops people from running through them.

Or give Scoundrel/Operative roll a cooldown, which can bring up whole different sets of issues.

It's a shame people can chain QQ without any need for a cooldown.

**** that's funny.

It's a shame people can chain QQ without any need for a cooldown.

^that

It's a shame people can chain QQ without any need for a cooldown.

Winning comment of the day thus far!

It's a shame people can chain QQ without any need for a cooldown.

I agree. Chain QQ from Pyrotechs got themselves buff in 2.4 while everyone else gets left in the dust. So it is proven to work with BW.

Anyway, buff Huttball traps!

The issue with the roll is that it's not actually a roll at all. It is a teleport. If it's done properly, they aren't ever actually in the fire at all. You teleport past the fire.

Well, that is good to know, and also made the ability even more BS. But I actually notice them take damage as they roll past the fire trap. So if the fire damage will prevent further rolls, then they won't be able to chain roll past traps.

With heavy snare and no escape abilities can be used while being damaged.

 

Why? Because this is the only change in WZ mechanic that I can think of that can help balance the map without nerfing Scoundrel/Operative roll. It is complete BS that they can roll through a fire trap while it is on and get past it taking only 1/3 of their health bar as damage. The chain rolling and bypassing every trap in a roll that is designed to stop the character is WZ mechanic breaking, because they are the only class that can do this.

 

Yes, other classes have ways to bypass traps and obstacles too. But their abilities have a cooldown and/or require a target, either friendly or hostile, which means coordination between allies or mistakes from enemies, is required. Chain rolling is the only ability without cooldown that allows bypassing traps consecutively and solo.

 

 

Compare to other classes’ abilities to bypass traps:

 

Knight/Warriors – Jump, either to ally or enemy, requires a target and has a cooldown. Sentinel/Marauder’s speed boost requires stacks, which require time to build.

 

Consular/Inquisitor – Force Speed has a cooldown. Sage/Sorc pull requires a ball carrier target, which is not much different from passing.

 

Gunslinger/Sniper – Roll has a cooldown.

 

Trooper/Bounty Hunter – Hold the Line/Hydraulic Override has a cooldown.

 

Scoundrel/Operative – Roll that can be spammed; then use energy regen abilities and spam again. Does not require target and has no cooldown. They can also self-cleanse to remove root and snare effect from self and keep rolling.

 

 

This is very important because a new Huttball map will be coming out. If traps are designed to stop characters from going straight to the goal line without pause, then the trap damage needs to act like electro net and actually stops people from running through them.

 

Or give Scoundrel/Operative roll a cooldown, which can bring up whole different sets of issues.

Wow, that is the most one sided piece of garbage I've read since reading fox news/huffington post.

Lets tell the whole story shall we:

Knight/Warriors – Jump, either to ally or enemy, requires a target and has a cooldown. Sentinel/Marauder’s speed boost requires stacks, which require time to build. Can go 30m (which is more than 3 rolls), force charge/leap CD disappears after using force push (for jugs). Does not take into account vertical obstables (that is it can jump up to the endzone from inside the pit). Holding the ball has no effect on it. Force charge builds rage and roots.

Consular/Inquisitor – Force Speed has a cooldown. Sage/Sorc pull requires a ball carrier target, which is not much different from passing. Extrication has a 30m range and ignores vertical obstacles (you can pull in away from the crowd onto a ledge), and holding the ball has no effect on either of them. Force speed has a skill that removes status effects when it is used.

Gunslinger/Sniper – Roll has a 20s cooldown. Goes 18m, does not fall off vertical ledges and puts you into cover, removes any movement impairing effects and increases your change to dodge attacks by 100%. holding the ball has no effect on it.

Scoundrel/Operative – Roll that can be spammed; then use energy regen abilities and spam again. Does not require target and has no cooldown. They can also self-cleanse to remove root and snare effect from self and keep rolling. Roll costs 25 (1/4) of their energy in a system that needs to maintain above 60% energy in order to keep regeneration at a decent pace. Energy regen has a CD so only an idiot would waste it to roll 2 more times just to lose all your energy again. Self cleanse does not remove force effects, so force slow stays unless you use evasion which has a pretty long CD-while force slow has a very short one, and the juggs AoE slow can be spammed. Reduced to 6m when slowed, cannot be used when immobilized. melee and ranged attacks have 30% higher chance of being dodged. Does not ignore vertical obstacles and falls off vertical ledges. Carrying the huttball limits it to 6m.

There, that is a little more unbiased.

Scoundrel/Operative – Roll that can be spammed; then use energy regen abilities and spam again. Does not require target and has no cooldown. They can also self-cleanse to remove root and snare effect from self and keep rolling..

It can be spammed - until they run out of energy after 24 yards (four rolls, a scrapper/concealment could make five for 30 yards). Then they can use a 2 minute cd that will get them another 12 yards.

And they can cleanse movement effects once - assuming that ability isn't on cd (a chunky 60 seconds). It's also used for lots of other things - including when they enter combat stealth so dots won't break them out again - so they will need to have saved their best defensive ability just for this one cleanse.

So was your post based on simple ignorance, or did you deliberately omit theses awkward facts?

If you see that the opposition have a scoundrel/operative, and you fail to counter him, then that's because you are bad. You know what he can do and you should know how to stop him. If *they're* good then they'll vary what they're doing and make it hard for you, but then that would be because they are good.

It must be terribly frustrating to be beaten by a class your character could smush in a "fair" fight. I guess that's how feelings of wounded outrage about scoundrels and ops are maintained.

The issue with the roll is that it's not actually a roll at all. It is a teleport. If it's done properly, they aren't ever actually in the fire at all. You teleport past the fire.

*sigh* no, it isn't a teleport.

You can be hit in mid-roll. It's happened to me umpteen times. The whole roll-bug - which you will be aware of if you have any clue at all - was when you got hit by movement control in mid-roll.

The fire damage comes in ticks, if you can get through it between damage ticks you can avoid damage. No imaginary teleportation necessary.

Consular/Inquisitor – Force speed has a skill that removes status effects when it is used.

 

Gunslinger/Sniper – Roll removes any movement impairing effects and increases your change to dodge attacks by 100%.

 

Scoundrel/Operative – melee and ranged attacks have 30% higher chance of being dodged.

These don't make sense. You are starting to talk about specific class specs, but players can't spec 36/36/36. Also Gunslinger/Sniper can't dodge with roll, that is a Concealment/Scrapper spec roll for Operatives/Scoundrels. Melee and ranged attacks have 30% higher chance of being dodged? Don't even know what spec gives this one.

But anyway, it sounds like you agree that Huttball traps need to be buffed because they are too easy to bypass.

It can be spammed - until they run out of energy after 24 yards (four rolls, a scrapper/concealment could make five for 30 yards). Then they can use a 2 minute cd that will get them another 12 yards.

 

And they can cleanse movement effects once - assuming that ability isn't on cd (a chunky 60 seconds). It's also used for lots of other things - including when they enter combat stealth so dots won't break them out again - so they will need to have saved their best defensive ability just for this one cleanse.

They only need to spam the roll with the ball to get past the traps and score the Huttball. They don't care if they are out of energy or use up their cooldowns to score the ball. Huttball is about scoring the ball, killing or getting killed after scoring don't matter that much.

I am not talking dodge as a cleanse. I am talking about the 5s cooldown tech and physical effect removal, which can remove almost all the slow and root effect in the game, 2 at a time, except Electro Net and the force types like Force Slow and Force Freeze. But they don't care even if they pop Dodge for it. If they can pop every single cooldown every 2 minutes to become a unstoppable rolling machine for a short time to score that ball, it is a win for them.

This thread is about Huttball, so we are focusing on Huttball scenarios. Don't get side-tracked into general PvP combat. They don't need to save cooldowns for fighting when they can use cooldowns to score the ball to win.

Traps in Huttball need to actually stop people no matter what cooldowns they pop. They need to be buffed.

And throwing insults around don't make you smarter,... bro. lol

Another crafty, long post which boils down to nerf the op/scoun roll.

Nope, it is about buffing Huttball traps to stop the people from too-easy scores.

These don't make sense. You are starting to talk about specific class specs, but players can't spec 36/36/36. Also Gunslinger/Sniper can't dodge with roll, that is a Concealment/Scrapper spec roll for Operatives/Scoundrels. Melee and ranged attacks have 30% higher chance of being dodged? Don't even know what spec gives this one.

 

But anyway, it sounds like you agree that Huttball traps need to be buffed because they are too easy to bypass.

Covered Escape for snipers/Gunslingers:

Roll forward 18 meters, freeing yourself from movement-slowing effects and landing crouched behind cover. While rolling, your chance to dodge attacks is increased by 100%.

You will know a good sniper by seeing him use his roll not only to get away from somthing, but also timing it to f.x dodge the aimed shot thats coming for him.

It can be spammed - until they run out of energy after 24 yards (four rolls, a scrapper/concealment could make five for 30 yards). Then they can use a 2 minute cd that will get them another 12 yards.

 

And they can cleanse movement effects once - assuming that ability isn't on cd (a chunky 60 seconds). It's also used for lots of other things - including when they enter combat stealth so dots won't break them out again - so they will need to have saved their best defensive ability just for this one cleanse.

 

So was your post based on simple ignorance, or did you deliberately omit theses awkward facts?

 

If you see that the opposition have a scoundrel/operative, and you fail to counter him, then that's because you are bad. You know what he can do and you should know how to stop him. If *they're* good then they'll vary what they're doing and make it hard for you, but then that would be because they are good.

 

It must be terribly frustrating to be beaten by a class your character could smush in a "fair" fight. I guess that's how feelings of wounded outrage about scoundrels and ops are maintained.

I've only played scrapper, but I can get across the entire map, from spawn to endzone, almost entirely with rolls. it requires literally 1-2s every two rolls of NOT activating the ability in order to regen enough energy to sustain rolling to the other side of the map. incidentally, while you're not rolling, you're running with a 30% speed buff from sneak. this doesn't work for NC because you still need energy left to fight when you get to the other node, but it is a realistic concern about roll in hb. you can debate whether that's "spammable" or not. I really don't care. you can use it, in practical terms, to cross the entire WZ.

someone else said it was actually a teleport. that is false. you take dmg for going through fire. that's not a teleport. HOWEVER, it is not possible (that I can tell) to target someone while he's rolling. that's sort of a teleport effect and should not happen. I'm pretty sure that you CAN still pull someone in mid roll (just like you can pull a leaper). the issue is that you have to have the roller targeted BEFORE he rolls.

These don't make sense. You are starting to talk about specific class specs, but players can't spec 36/36/36. Also Gunslinger/Sniper can't dodge with roll, that is a Concealment/Scrapper spec roll for Operatives/Scoundrels. Melee and ranged attacks have 30% higher chance of being dodged? Don't even know what spec gives this one.

 

But anyway, it sounds like you agree that Huttball traps need to be buffed because they are too easy to bypass.

http://www.torhead.com/ability/glMjhR8/covered-escape

http://www.torhead.com/ability/2WlgVBn/scamper

I don't agree. I believe that anytime someone uses a speed/pull/leap ability they should lose the ball-this will actually affect ops least as their roll is only 6m with the ball. This would make people pass more instead of having one jugg run with the ball, leap, force push, leap and score.

I don't know on what teams you played on, but the best and cheapest huttball strategy is to just get the ball to the jugg and have him 1) run it in himself thanks all his CDs and the BS resolve system we have 2) leap it in himself (or leap push, leap) or 3) have a stealther get in the endzone and have him leap to his stealther friend and score.

I've only played scrapper, but I can get across the entire map, from spawn to endzone, almost entirely with rolls. it requires literally 1-2s every two rolls of NOT activating the ability in order to regen enough energy to sustain rolling to the other side of the map. incidentally, while you're not rolling, you're running with a 30% speed buff from sneak. this doesn't work for NC because you still need energy left to fight when you get to the other node, but it is a realistic concern about roll in hb. you can debate whether that's "spammable" or not. I really don't care. you can use it, in practical terms, to cross the entire WZ..

Considering what garbage concealment is in a wz, I would say you are still getting the short end of the stick.

Engineer sniper can entrench, has a knockback, and can generate twice the rolling qq with a reset ability. Positioned properly, there's not much walking involved.

Ally jump to a stealthed ally is the one thing that really can't be countered by competent players, so if you wanna cry about something start with that.

incidentally, while you're not rolling, you're running with a 30% speed buff from sneak.

Damn, I didn't even know that Concealment/Scrapper got another 30% in combat sprint on top of rolls. Huttball traps defintely need to be buffed. Maybe even add another 3s after-effect DoT that acts like Electro Net, so people can't walk off easy even if they somehow survive through the fire or acid.

Considering what garbage concealment is in a wz, I would say you are still getting the short end of the stick.

No it is not. Concealment is awesome in regular WZ, and sounds like superb in Huttball. Since there will be a new Huttball map and ranked WZ will be removed, Concealment will be great for WZs except for Ranked arenas. But a lot of specs are bad for ranked arenas except a few, so that is a different problem.

Engineer sniper can entrench, has a knockback, and can generate twice the rolling qq with a reset ability. Positioned properly, there's not much walking involved.

 

Ally jump to a stealthed ally is the one thing that really can't be countered by competent players, so if you wanna cry about something start with that.

If fire trap buffed to act like Electro Net, that can consequentially counter Engineer Sniper's double roll too. So buffing to Huttball traps is needed, as the buff can help the issues you pointed out.

Jumping to stealthed ally in end zone by Jug can be countered with controlling the middle. A stealther staying in end zone means his rest of the team is fighting a 7vs8, and that is a disadvantageous risk. Also it is not much different from passing the ball to stealth ally that unstealth after the ball is thrown to receive it. In either scenario, coordination is required.

Chain rolling past traps can be done solo like a Huttball king.

Chain rolling past traps can be done solo like a Huttball king.

Hand on your heart, how many times playing premade vs premade have you seen an Operative just pick up ball at mid, and trolololol roll to the goal line?

Sure, when playing agianst 8 muppets deathmatching around the map, everything is possible, but i dont like calling this ability OP judging from situations where there is simply no opposition at all.

Ill admit, the ablility like covered escape for snipers can potentially lead to very fast goals if you can pass the ball to them somewhere behind the first fire pit, but I personally have no issue with this. Its a matter of horrible defense more than roll being OP.

At any rate, i feel like there are more real balancing issues that needs higher priority than this.