iv always been a beliver that the matrix cube was a BIS item untill i see anot of top raiders on my server useing crit / surge relics with a power relic, or crit / surge and haste. iv cleared all nightmare with the cube and was wondering if i have missed somthing ?

The Artifice crafted Rakata relics are BIS imo. I have the crit/surge and power for dps and the shield/absorb and def for tanking. All 4 with aug slots.

The Artifice crafted Rakata relics are BIS imo. I have the crit/surge and power for dps and the shield/absorb and def for tanking. All 4 with aug slots.

 

I thought the use abilities shared a cooldown, making the matrix shard optimal since you can't use the abilities separately until they are off cooldown. Is that not the case?

for DPS the T3 damage proc relics from fab and exceptional artifice power relics are best in slot from what i've read

 

matrix cube ain't far behind tho

 

reminds me of blackhands breadth

I thought the use abilities shared a cooldown, making the matrix shard optimal since you can't use the abilities separately until they are off cooldown. Is that not the case?

 

Only the SAME relic shares a cooldown of 2 minutes.

 

If you equip one of each, they are just on the standard 20 second cooldown.

 

*edit to correct my first statement from 1 to 2 minutes.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Remer

Here is my arbitrary guestimation of relic damage. Most of this is based on a class using non-channeled attacks. For some of the attack times, I rounded up a slight amount to simulate for the occasional channel. This is of course not exact but maybe it will spark someone else into thinking along these lines.

 

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The matrix cube is good but im not sure if im sold on it. +50ish AIM is equal to about 10 bonus damage and minor crit bonus. In 100 attacks, thats 1000 additional damage.

 

With the Proc Relic after 100 attacks, there would potentially be 30 procs since its 30%. But since they cant occur back-to-back, I will reduce this to 15 procs. At 200 damage each, this is 3000 damage. Three times better than relic cube.

 

With a clicky relic (crit/surge), it lasts for about 14 attacks. Each attack has about 5% increased crit chance. That means 1 more crit out of 20. Since you are only getting 14 attacks, it gives you about 2/3 of a crit (14/20). For me, a crit is an extra 1500ish damage. 2/3s of that is 1000 damage.

 

Matric Cube - 1000 damage after 100 attacks (roughly 3 minutes)

 

Proc Relic - 1000 damage after 33 attacks (roughly 50 seconds)

 

Click Relic - 1000 damage after 20 seconds

 

Since you can only use a crit relic every 2 minutes, its still equal to 1000 damage every 2 minutes, where the Proc Relic is actually 2500 damage over 2 minutes.

 

So in a given 20 second burst, the Clicky relic is double the power of a Proc Relic. But in a given 2 minute sustained DPS period, the Proc relic is better.

 

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The best one to use also can depend on the boss. For long extended fights where you DPS the entire time, I'd say the T3 Proc Relic and a Clicky Relic might be best.

 

But in fights with specific DPS periods such as Soa during phase 3, its probably best to use Two Clicky Relics to really hammer in the damage while his shield is down.

Edited March 14, 2012 by DarthBloodloss

Matric Cube - 1000 damage after 100 attacks (roughly 3 minutes)

 

Proc Relic - 1000 damage after 33 attacks (roughly 50 seconds)

 

Click Relic - 1000 damage after 20 seconds

 

Since you can only use a crit relic every 2 minutes, its still equal to 1000 damage every 2 minutes, where the Proc Relic is actually 2500 damage over 2 minutes.

 

So in a given 20 second burst, the Clicky relic is double the power of a Proc Relic. But in a given 2 minute sustained DPS period, the Proc relic is better.

 

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The best one to use also can depend on the boss. For long extended fights where you DPS the entire time, I'd say the T3 Proc Relic and a Matrix Cube might be best.

 

But in fights with specific DPS periods such as Soa during phase 3, its probably best to use Clicky Relics to really hammer in the damage while his shield is down.

 

 

Does this take into consideration that you can use the Crit/Surge relic and then 20 seconds later use the Power relic? I think that would greatly increase the amount of damage from the "click relics"

 

I burn both of my "click relics" (crit/surge and then 20 seconds later power) on all 3 phases of SOA. It's great

Does this take into consideration that you can use the Crit/Surge relic and then 20 seconds later use the Power relic? I think that would greatly increase the amount of damage from the "click relics"

 

I burn both of my "click relics" (crit/surge and then 20 seconds later power) on all 3 phases of SOA. It's great

 

No I didnt take into account the 2nd relic because I assumed in all situations you would be using a Clicky Relic in the 2nd slot and they would just cancel each other out.

 

When I said Matrix, I really meant Matrix+Clicky

When I said Clicky, I really meant Clicky+Clicky

When I said Proc, I really meant Proc+Clicky

 

This was basically trying to find out which one is better in the first slot, and assuming the second slot is always a Clicky.

Edited March 14, 2012 by DarthBloodloss

The Artifice crafted Rakata relics are BIS imo. I have the crit/surge and power for dps and the shield/absorb and def for tanking. All 4 with aug slots.

 

 

Damn.... augment slots? looks like im not done crafting relics after all.... /facepalm.

They also said that they wanna make crafted stuff to no longer be BoP so hopefully we can just buy these relics in 1.2 .....

They also said that they wanna make crafted stuff to no longer be BoP so hopefully we can just buy these relics in 1.2 .....

 

I am all for this. It would give me something more to sell, now that my Magenta crystals have dropped in price so much.

I have to say the Matrix shard is, in my opinion, best in slot if you are not an artifice. If you're an artifice, make their top end-relic and fill augment slots with the best stuff you can, that's probably better. But the Matrix shard is nothing to scoff at, no matter the color.

 

 

I actually still use the matrix shard in PVP even though I could use champ stuff. It's nice.

But the Matrix shard is nothing to scoff at, no matter the color.

 

 

I actually still use the matrix shard in PVP even though I could use champ stuff. It's nice.

 

Agreed, and I was not trying to say it was. It is far better than any blue relic you can get from LS/DS or Treasure Hunting, and even competes with some of the relics from HM and NiM.

As a healer, I value the Matrix Cube because it is predictable sustained bonus. If I were dpsing, I'd go with a click.

 

I understand this thread is probably about dpsing, but I figured I'd share that tiny bit--a lot of times the clickies as a healer result in overhealing, not better efficiency or throughput, so the extra stats on the matrix cube just end up working out more favorably imo.

well i play an op healer and i use the cube and the fab one from kp but its a convo iv been having with the dps in the guild

The bonus damage you get per point of main stat is just over .2, with raid buffs its close to .23 but we can round it to .25

 

This means that the +58 main stat from the cube is 14 bonus damage per attack. The bonus healing is slightly less, probably around 12 bonus healing.

 

That isn't much of a DPS gain. The proc relic will put out about 200 every 3 or 4 attacks on average. Or even 200 every 6 attacks in a "worst case scenario".

 

Proc Relic:

200 damage every 6 attacks - Worst case scenario

 

Matrix Cube:

84 damage every 6 attacks - This is rounding the damage UP

 

Not to mention the Proc Relic also gives more endurance. (But yes the Cube gives like 0.25% crit as well)

Edited March 15, 2012 by DarthBloodloss

As there are 2 different type of proc relics, is it viable to go with 1 of each type?

As there are 2 different type of proc relics, is it viable to go with 1 of each type?

 

People are talking about the T3 relics, not the T2. All of them within a tier are exactly the same - 168 energy damage, 4.5 CD and 30% chance.

 

What I don't get is, why people talk about Crit/Surge Relics ... they're abyssmal as you should be well within DR of Surge already.

Power Relics are where the power lies ... to me it comes down to taste between Matrix and Proccy.

 

It also depends a bit on what class you play and which spec. Do you have DoTs? Do you have skills that count as multiple hits? A lot of long cast abilities that are just counted as a single hit?

 

I'd always keep the Clicky (aka Relic of Boundless Ages) ... reasonable duration and cooldown, perfect for burst damage, especially because every 3 uses it's lined up with the Adrenal and Bloodthirst further enhances the effect of the shot power up.

no they are not all the same, two are effected by armor and have slightly higher base damage and the other two are internal damage, personally i'd prefer to use the internal ones

 

and no you can't use two proc relics because they all share an internal cooldown

Edited March 15, 2012 by Seanimus

And here's your stop for the best theory crafting in SWTOR: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Marksmanship-Sniper-Sharpshooter-Gunslinger-Compendium?pid=14764#pid14764

 

The cube is best for the Gunslinger/sniper, hands down. I use the 355 power relic and my matrix cube

Edited March 15, 2012 by Dragonbgone

People are talking about the T3 relics, not the T2. All of them within a tier are exactly the same - 168 energy damage, 4.5 CD and 30% chance.

 

What I don't get is, why people talk about Crit/Surge Relics ... they're abyssmal as you should be well within DR of Surge already.

Power Relics are where the power lies ... to me it comes down to taste between Matrix and Proccy.

 

It also depends a bit on what class you play and which spec. Do you have DoTs? Do you have skills that count as multiple hits? A lot of long cast abilities that are just counted as a single hit?

 

I'd always keep the Clicky (aka Relic of Boundless Ages) ... reasonable duration and cooldown, perfect for burst damage, especially because every 3 uses it's lined up with the Adrenal and Bloodthirst further enhances the effect of the shot power up.

 

I wish. I'm stuck with my kinetic damage T3.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Nessirin

I wish. I'm stuck with my kinetic damage T3.

 

 

The kinetic damage relic is going to be better in raids than the internal because of armor debuffs. If you have 3-5 armor debuffs you're going to be able to get closer to that 224 and do more damage than the internal energy surge. Really, the damage between the relics is not a big enough gap to make a fight breaking difference.