Xanikk Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) This just occured to me, and I'm not sure why just now but.. Assuming evolution works the same way in the star wars universe as it is theorized to work in real life, I have come to the conclusion that twi'leks would have never evolved they way they are. Why? According to the lore lekku are very sensitive and they also encase parts of their brain. The brain is vital to life. Knowing this I also found out that the lekku can be injured easily if extrodinary precautions are not taken throughout a twilek's life to protect her/his lekku. So knowing all of this... why the hell would natural selection favor a sentient being with a brain that can get injured EXTREMELY easily? Naturally the way evolution works is that undesirable traits are normally not passed along over thousands of generations because they hinder the ability to LIVE! With a trait as disadvantageous as having sensitive, hardly protected lekku, why did the twileks survive in their current form? Anyone with a proper understanding of evolutionary theory and biology would know that this could not happen on a scale of millions of years unless under the pressure of artificial selection which by the way is impossible on this scale in a pre-civiliztion society or any non sentient being. TLDR version: The trait of having lekkus confer no special advantage and have extreme penalties and would never occur in any model of evolution on such a timescale! Anyone else come to this conclusion? Edited May 7, 2012 by Xanikk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeutschGamer Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Who cares, Twi'leks are hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanikk Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Who cares, Twi'leks are hot. Thanks for the bump even though you added nothing to the conversation. Care to answer the question or just post nonsense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBentOne Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Yup very illogical. I guess its a good thing they didn't evolve. The race was created by the mother machine as part of a Rakatan experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeutschGamer Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Why don't you go find a Twi'lek and ask them. I'm sure they can tell you how Ryloth and evolution worked for them over thousands of years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanikk Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Yup very illogical. I guess its a good thing they didn't evolve. The race was created by the mother machine as part of a Rakatan experiment. Actually I don't think thats true, since it contradicts earlier established lore about them existing prior to that. So no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanikk Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Why don't you go find a Twi'lek and ask them. I'm sure they can tell you how Ryloth and evolution worked for them over thousands of years.. What are you getting upset about? I'm just trying to start a discussion on how this evolution could of possibly occured with a reasonable explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBentOne Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Actually I don't think thats true, since it contradicts earlier established lore about them existing prior to that. So no. You are correct. However I have a theory on how the Lekku may have evolved. You are under the impression that the Lekku originally evolved as the communication appendage and brain extension that they are in Twi'lek civilization today. I suspect this is an erroneous conclusion. Lekku are known to store fat and other vital nutrients, so I suspect that they originally evolved Primarily as a means to store excess fats and nutrients in the resource deprived and harsh environment of Ryloth, and secondarily as a means to determine stasis in the social group (lore supports this theory as large Lekku are still regarded as stasis symbols in Twilek society). The Lekku likely wasn't especially sensitive at this time and did not contain brain tissue, as this would prove to be a disadvantage, as you have stated. When the Twi'lek gained sentence and moved into their cave system they began to use the lekku less as a means of survival. It would be a valuable asset to be able to communicate over the din of the packed cave systems and slowly the lekku became more sensitive and eventually it became the primary form of communication among Twi'leks. Unfortunately the change from its original purpose (the nessecity for more nerve ends ect...) made it vastly more sensitive to external stimuli, however, at this time the Twi'lek civilization was for the most part safe from external predators and a sensitive Lekku would no longer be a disadvantage. Just a theory. But i think it's fairly sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanikk Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) You are correct. However I have a theory on how the Lekku may have evolved. You are under the impression that the Lekku originally evolved as the communication appendage and brain extension that they are in Twi'lek civilization today. I suspect this is an erroneous conclusion. Lekku are known to store fat and other vital nutrients, so I suspect that they originally evolved Primarily as a means to store excess fats and nutrients in the resource deprived and harsh environment of Ryloth, and secondarily as a means to determine stasis in the social group (lore supports this theory as large Lekku are still regarded as stasis symbols in Twilek society). The Lekku likely wasn't especially sensitive at this time and did not contain brain tissue, as this would prove to be a disadvantage, as you have stated. When the Twi'lek gained sentence and moved into their cave system they began to use the lekku less as a means of survival. It would be a valuable asset to be able to communicate over the din of the packed cave systems and slowly the lekku became more sensitive and eventually it became the primary form of communication among Twi'leks. Unfortunately the change from its original purpose (the nessecity for more nerve ends ect...) made it vastly more sensitive to external stimuli, however, at this time the Twi'lek civilization was for the most part safe from external predators and a sensitive Lekku would no longer be a disadvantage. Just a theory. But i think it's fairly sound Sounds convincing. I also thought to myself sensitive, vulnerable lekku might have stayed in the geen pool because those traits could have been sexually advantageous? Of course I am not sure they are even seen as sex symbols. However if those traits are ideal in a female twilek's lekku than despite being a survival disadvantage they may have been selected sexually because the females with those types of lekku were chosen as mates more often. Eventually as time went on that trait was predominant in all twileks. That's my theory anyway. Edited May 7, 2012 by Xanikk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewisgil Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 So evolution only picks the most advantageous traits to carry on to the next generations does it? Then please explain why mammalian male genetalia is so exposed. If it is so essential to breeding and the continuation of the species, why have it so exposed? Also, please explain why some of the organs in the human body that can cause grievous harm if ruptured, liver, intestines, bladder, kidneys,etc, reside in places with little to no protection from the skeletal system. Twi'leks are described as some of the most graceful beings in the Star Wars Universe, hence a great deal of their females being dancers. Lekku seem to serve a similar purpose to tails with this. Many ainmals with tails use their tails as a means to balance themselves, aiding in many animals having far superior grace and agility to humans. Lekku are very sensitive, meaning they probably can aid with one's equilibrium. Housing parts of their brain hints at their brains having portions that human brains do not that require more room than just a normal sized head and instead of evolving with larger craniums, they evolved with lekku. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westraz Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 there or quite a few things here on earth that or some what like that, Ants come to mind there fellers the only way they see, or contend right too the bran and or sensitive extremely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanikk Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) So evolution only picks the most advantageous traits to carry on to the next generations does it? Then please explain why mammalian male genetalia is so exposed. If it is so essential to breeding and the continuation of the species, why have it so exposed? Also, please explain why some of the organs in the human body that can cause grievous harm if ruptured, liver, intestines, bladder, kidneys,etc, reside in places with little to no protection from the skeletal system. I hate to pick apart quotes but everything you said in this part seems to be from a lack of understanding on the subject. Then please explain why mammalian male genitalia is so exposed. If it is so essential to breeding and the continuation of the species, Actually it's not so exposed if you think about it. The testic les are situated so they stick close to the body when it's cold and hang loose when it's hot so the fertility of the sperm does not suffer from adverse temperatures. The testi-cles probably evolved this way because of the adventurousness of having a pen-is for precise insertion into a va-gina It wouldn't have been possible if the testic-les were inside the body. The conditions for sperm maturation are not right there. It was just easier and more efficient for our sex organs to develop that way. Thus it was sexually selected to be so. There is no master plan for evolution. Over millions and millions of years its a statistical fact that evolution takes the most effecient course and attempts to weed out anything that interferes with the ability to survive. Simply put in a span of several million years there is literally almost no chance we would keep a disadvantageous trait. Anyway you look at it, the traits we have are advantageous in some way, otherwise they wouldnt have been kept in the gene pool. Actually it's not really exposed Edited May 7, 2012 by Xanikk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewisgil Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I hate to pick apart quotes but everything you said in this part seems to be from a lack of understanding on the subject. Actually it's not so exposed if you think about it. The testic les are situated so they stick close to the body when it's cold and hang loose when it's hot so the fertility of the sperm does not suffer from adverse temperatures. The testi-cles probably evolved this way because of the adventurousness of having a pen-is for precise insertion into a va-gina It wouldn't have been possible if the testic-les were inside the body. The conditions for sperm maturation are not right there. It was just easier and more efficient for our sex organs to develop that way. Thus it was sexually selected to be so. There is no master plan for evolution. Over millions and millions of years its a statistical fact that evolution takes the most effecient course and attempts to weed out anything that interferes with the ability to survive. Simply put in a span of several million years there is literally almost no chance we would keep a disadvantageous trait. Anyway you look at it, the traits we have are advantageous in some way, otherwise they wouldnt have been kept in the gene pool. Actually it's not really exposed It's not really exposed? Why are there such devices as jock straps? Why are they one of the first things you see on a dog walking away from you? The only advantage to the placement is it aligns with the female genetalia during copulation. I understand the subject far better than you seem to think. I see you only attempted to address the genetalia point I brought up. What about the organs that are relatively unprotected by our skeletal system? Point is, evolution sometimes goes for streamline rather than protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 And once again someone is bothered by the lack of logic in Star Wars. It happens, OP. My suggestion is to let go of logic when dealing with anything Star Wars and just go with what's there. Trench Runs... ugh. Lightsabers... ugh. SOUND IN SPACE!!!!!..... ugh. Seriously, it's a losing proposition that has been known to cause migraines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 And once again someone is bothered by the lack of logic in Star Wars. It happens, OP. My suggestion is to let go of logic when dealing with anything Star Wars and just go with what's there. Trench Runs... ugh. Lightsabers... ugh. SOUND IN SPACE!!!!!..... ugh. Seriously, it's a losing proposition that has been known to cause migraines. Sound in space is ok, because John Williams made it possible using his music....and you do not **** with Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellvaan Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Greetings everyone! We just want to thank you for an interesting and constructive discussion. We appreciate that you are keeping your replies within our Rules of Conduct and appropriate. We know it may be difficult as we often use real life examples for analogy but we just want to gently remind you to please keep your discussion specifically to the Star Wars Universe versus real life as much as possible. Sometimes real life discussion, especially on topics such as politics and religion, can be volatile due to members passionate beliefs. This can incite flames and derail the thread from its topic which we wish to avoid. Thank you for your understanding and we look forward to this discussion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 You are correct. However I have a theory on how the Lekku may have evolved. You are under the impression that the Lekku originally evolved as the communication appendage and brain extension that they are in Twi'lek civilization today. I suspect this is an erroneous conclusion. Lekku are known to store fat and other vital nutrients, so I suspect that they originally evolved Primarily as a means to store excess fats and nutrients in the resource deprived and harsh environment of Ryloth, and secondarily as a means to determine stasis in the social group (lore supports this theory as large Lekku are still regarded as stasis symbols in Twilek society). The Lekku likely wasn't especially sensitive at this time and did not contain brain tissue, as this would prove to be a disadvantage, as you have stated. When the Twi'lek gained sentence and moved into their cave system they began to use the lekku less as a means of survival. It would be a valuable asset to be able to communicate over the din of the packed cave systems and slowly the lekku became more sensitive and eventually it became the primary form of communication among Twi'leks. Unfortunately the change from its original purpose (the nessecity for more nerve ends ect...) made it vastly more sensitive to external stimuli, however, at this time the Twi'lek civilization was for the most part safe from external predators and a sensitive Lekku would no longer be a disadvantage. Just a theory. But i think it's fairly sound Especially compelling because, before Lucas Retconned it, Ryloth was extremely hostile to inhabitants with only a thin strip of land at the horizon being hospitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminen Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Well Natural Selection selects those that Reproduce, not just those that survive. Humans are technically weak, but are smart enough to overcome it, if their culture favored mates with longer lekku, it is perfectly logical they'd grow to be long. Edited May 8, 2012 by Luminen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aedey Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Thanks for the bump even though you added nothing to the conversation. Care to answer the question or just post nonsense? Well seeing as Twillies are not actually real.. Y U getting so worked up over another's opinion. I'l tell you why they have lekku.. it makes for an interesting bed party. George had a fantasy one night.. 'nouf said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Sound in space is ok, because John Williams made it possible using his music....and you do not **** with Williams. For John Williams so loved Star Wars, that he granted unto the Most Deserving the Power of the Beard. Used with great effectiveness by Count Dooku, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Kyle Katarn. Dooku, however, made the mistake of thinking his Beard was greater than John's Beard. Thereby, John Williams removed Dooku's Beard Power at the most inopportune moment, causing him to get beheaded by an emo sniffler in disgrace. John then granted the former Beard Power belonging to Dooku unto Lando's Mustache. Edited May 8, 2012 by Captain_Zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodril Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Then please explain why mammalian male genetalia is so exposed. If it is so essential to breeding and the continuation of the species, why have it so exposed? Temperature regulation, actually. Aside from that, though, you make a good point. There is a common misperception that evolution crafts species to lead to something; but evolution is simply a process, and does not have a plan. It's not some entity deciding what is useful and what is not, and adjusting life accordingly. It is simply the process of traits being eliminated or promoted by chance of survival and reproduction. Traits that are beneficial are more likely to propagate, and thus advantages become common among traits that survive the lengthy development of a species, but that does not mean that all traits are being evolved to some greater purpose. There is no guiding purpose to evolution, only a series of chances. It is even entirely possible that head tails could be a trait paired with another trait that helped promote biological success. Perhaps they were tied with intelligence, or promoted resistance to some sort of alien disease or parasite in the primordial twi'lek past. Perhaps, while unrelated features of the body, some genetic correlation meant twi'leks with head tails tended to have better teeth. Without seeing the environment they come from, and knowing all the specifics of their physiology, anything would be rampant speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crezelle Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 havent read replies.. but many animals have evolved cumbersome features for asthetic looks.. look at peacocks. that tail makes it so the roosters can barely fly around in the jungles of india Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISDEnterprise Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Honestly, I ignore random EU stuff sometimes because it's just too stupid. The explanations of what lekku are and do in EU is ridiculous. Therefore I ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazednconfuzed Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Honestly, I ignore random EU stuff sometimes because it's just too stupid. The explanations of what lekku are and do in EU is ridiculous. Therefore I ignore it. Riiiiiight... Thanks for your deep and meaningful comment on this discussion I played a Twi'lek in pens/paper SW roleplay several years back, and I was curious about these too, so went and dug up any info I could find on them. From what I read, the lekku are part extra sensory bundles and part brain extension. They are prehensile (which means they can move under their own power), and over the years since Twi'leks developed them, they have developed a language that incorporates the lekku. Non-Twileks rarely even know about this 'extra' language, so it is entirely possible for two Twi'leks to have a conversation (albeit a limited conversation) across a crowded room with no-one else even realising they were speaking, just by twitching their braintails. Of course, as with everything else Star Wars related, this has probably been retconned by now. I still can't believe Lucas retconned Ryloth from an excellent and unique planet with 'yet another generic planet'. Edited May 8, 2012 by dazednconfuzed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterleonidas Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) you all bring up good points, but i've read these threads and what no one has even mentioned is if twilek can survive without their lekku. If their brain extentions, and all the other species have the same brains as humans, then y would the twilek be different. Since twileks and a few other species are the only ones with head tails, but they are definitely thriving species, my (Educated) guess would be that if a twilek got his/her lekku cut off, they would still be able to survive, they just wouldn't be able to do the extra conversation thing with them. They might help with balance, but without lekku twileks would just be downgraded to the balance of humans. If they provide extra sensory detail, they still have eyes, nerves, noses, and ears. And if they store extra fat and nutrition, if the twilek was lost in a desert on tatooine, they would be able to survive 2-3 weeks without food and about 3 days without water as apposed to maybe a month or so with lekku. So my guess is they still have them for extra things that aren't actually necessary for life, but they don't actually need them. If twilek died when their lekku got cut off, twileks wouldn't exist anymore because they really isn't much head armor out there made specifically to cover lekku, not in the books, games, or movies has anyone specifically mentioned this kind of armor. that's just my guess from looking at it the way none of you have so far. Edited May 8, 2012 by masterleonidas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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