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Most fitting race for Sith Inquisitor?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Most fitting race for Sith Inquisitor?

TwilekTrekker's Avatar


TwilekTrekker
01.10.2017 , 01:04 AM | #151
Quote: Originally Posted by Eiter View Post
The wrench here is that Kallig calls the Inquisitor "flesh of my flesh", which suggests direct lineage. We then face the problem that we don't know exactly when Kallig lived. I'm not the most learned in lore, but I think this completely rules out Rattataki (an original choice, no less), and forces some serious headcanon on the part of the player for quite a few other species. I do like that challenge though.
As far as I know, it's possible for people of different humanoid species to breed.

I mean, at the end of many a romance chain the love interest expresses a desire to get married and have children, even if your character is a different species from them. Hell, Ashara from the Sith Inquisitor storyline says she wants to have kids at the end of her romance chain. And she's Togruta, which wasn't available for players until a much later patch, and thus her romance was written to be mixed-race from the start.

Kallig says you are "flesh of my flesh," but he doesn't say that he's human or you were born from his same-race human wife. His mask keeps his race deliberately vague, and/or it's possible that he had an alien wife or wives (Darth Malgus was married to a twi'lek woman, for example), and/or it's possible that you are descended from an alien slave or concubine.

So... I stand by my opinion that the Sith Inquisitor can be any race.

Eiter's Avatar


Eiter
01.10.2017 , 03:07 AM | #152
As the thread you link reflects, it's quite possible for some species to produce fertile offspring, but not all. I think that's in line with what I wrote. So, while some are more likely than others, the only species I discount are the Rattataki, because they only very recently got introduced to galactic society.

Googling the issue gives somewhat conflicting results. As expected. So, it's up to the player, really.

Thiago's Avatar


Thiago
01.10.2017 , 09:15 AM | #153
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilekTrekker View Post
As far as I know, it's possible for people of different humanoid species to breed.

I mean, at the end of many a romance chain the love interest expresses a desire to get married and have children, even if your character is a different species from them. Hell, Ashara from the Sith Inquisitor storyline says she wants to have kids at the end of her romance chain. And she's Togruta, which wasn't available for players until a much later patch, and thus her romance was written to be mixed-race from the start.

Kallig says you are "flesh of my flesh," but he doesn't say that he's human or you were born from his same-race human wife. His mask keeps his race deliberately vague, and/or it's possible that he had an alien wife or wives (Darth Malgus was married to a twi'lek woman, for example), and/or it's possible that you are descended from an alien slave or concubine.

So... I stand by my opinion that the Sith Inquisitor can be any race.
Yes, he can be of any race able to interbreed (human, rattataki, zabraks etc), the point is that some make more sense lore and story-wise than others if you want stick attached to the lore and the trick is that if you pick an alien as your inquisitor, the game retcons Kallig as an alien too, probably from your own species although that is vague. This also becomes a problem lore-wise. By the time that he, Kallig, lived, it would be extremely improbable that the high sith hierarchy would allow any non-human or non-pureblood sitting at the dark council no matter how powerful or skilled they were. They could have be great generals, commanders, trainers, oversees, but sith lords? At the point of becoming "pals" with Tulak Hord? That hard to swallow.

The old sith empire by the time Kallig lived was much less a meritocracy (if that is possible) than the one we see on the old republic. Imagining Kallig as a twilek and becoming a sith lord by that period is almost impossible, but that is what the game makes you can presume if you pick a twilek or rattataki as your SI (base races provided with no unlock needed). Why? Because rattatakis are a newly found race so grampa Kallig couldnt be one of them even if you stretches the lore making him a lone ratta who left his homeworld seeking fame and fortune as he did in a slavery society, the sith empire ("hey, we can slave this guy's unknown planet filled with warriors for our army! what we are wating for!"). He could be a twilek and through generations of interbreeding there you are, a rattataki or a togruta, cathar, chiss you name it. If your inquisitor is an alien, Kallig was an alien and he should be member of an older race known by that time like twileks. That and the fact he should be able to interbreed to the point of his descendant become members of new races.

Clone Wars seems to have stablished that humans and twileks can have kids although it seems vague, by watching the episode you can assume the human soldier foster fathered the kids from his twilek wife (later printed sources established the children as hybrids afaik). The whole interbreeded lineage regarding SI ancestry only brings unnecessary headache to the whole thing imho.

Base line: if the game threated Kallig as a human or pureblood (as he probably was) no matter if you are alien or not, taking that in account that he was able to interbreed with other species (pb could use sith sorcery in some cases), the problem of any alien SI would be much diminished.

BUT! The writters themselves stretches the lore a bit here because the SI plot is about a slave who crave his way to sith lordship and the sith empire is filled with alien slaves from pretty much all species around the galaxy. What is the criteria then to keep your character lore friendly if you want that? Just take a look of what the designers originally intented (humans and zabraks) or wich one would make sense lore-wise through unlocks or cartel market (miralukas).

Then again, everyone is free to make their own stories, just neglecting what they want and having fun playing what they like wich is nice and fine. With legacy unlocks you can pick everything you want and make your own story to justify it. I think the whole point of the topic is try to figure wich race are more align with the now defunct expanded universe lore by the time the game took place.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.10.2017 , 01:03 PM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilekTrekker View Post
As far as I know, it's possible for people of different humanoid species to breed.

I mean, at the end of many a romance chain the love interest expresses a desire to get married and have children, even if your character is a different species from them. Hell, Ashara from the Sith Inquisitor storyline says she wants to have kids at the end of her romance chain. And she's Togruta, which wasn't available for players until a much later patch, and thus her romance was written to be mixed-race from the start.

Kallig says you are "flesh of my flesh," but he doesn't say that he's human or you were born from his same-race human wife. His mask keeps his race deliberately vague, and/or it's possible that he had an alien wife or wives (Darth Malgus was married to a twi'lek woman, for example), and/or it's possible that you are descended from an alien slave or concubine.

So... I stand by my opinion that the Sith Inquisitor can be any race.
Some also say they can't.

Vette and Jorgan I believe, both said you couldn't. Then of course Clone Wars cartoon came out and I believe that said "Sure, why not, let's have a half breed run around, because that would be awesome!"

I would think any that started out as human and then evolved through out the centuries to change, would likely be able to breed with humans.

The question would then become, how much effects of the near human persist?

By theory, half Twi'lek could breed with human, who would breed with human, who could breed with human, and rather quickly, not enough Twi'lek to even look a hint of Twi'lek.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

TwilekTrekker's Avatar


TwilekTrekker
01.10.2017 , 04:34 PM | #155
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Some also say they can't.

Vette and Jorgan I believe, both said you couldn't. Then of course Clone Wars cartoon came out and I believe that said "Sure, why not, let's have a half breed run around, because that would be awesome!"
I'm actually with the Clone Wars on this. "Sure, why not?" To me, fiction means more possibilities for creativity and imagination, not less.

Quote:
I would think any that started out as human and then evolved through out the centuries to change, would likely be able to breed with humans.

The question would then become, how much effects of the near human persist?

By theory, half Twi'lek could breed with human, who would breed with human, who could breed with human, and rather quickly, not enough Twi'lek to even look a hint of Twi'lek.
By that logic, the opposite could hold true. If a a half-twilek could breed with a full twi'lek, who could breed with another full twi'lek, who could breed with another full-twi'lek, eventually the offspring would look full twi'lek and not a hint of human. (That's what I headcanon for my Twi'lek Sith Inquisitor, anyway.)

Isn't it stated that Tulak Hord betrayed Kallig and ensured that his family fell to ruin, which is why your character starts out unaware of their heritage and/or from a family of commoners/slaves? If Kallig isn't human (though that's something I'm willing to dispute since his race is never confirmed and he's always seen with a mask, leaving it possible that he was an alien like the Sith Inquisitor) and his child/ren were half-alien offspring who eventually joined the Empire's alien slave population, odds are they'd have no shortage of alien partners to dilute the human bloodline and until the "flesh of his flesh" looks fully alien and not human.

And Kallig died at least a thousand years ago, right? Several characters seem to say the Dark Temple was constructed a thousand years ago, and I think it's implied that Tulak Hord died at least a thousand years ago, if not more--and he was Kallig's close personal friend. A lot can happen in a thousand years.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.10.2017 , 06:11 PM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilekTrekker View Post
I'm actually with the Clone Wars on this. "Sure, why not?" To me, fiction means more possibilities for creativity and imagination, not less.



By that logic, the opposite could hold true. If a a half-twilek could breed with a full twi'lek, who could breed with another full twi'lek, who could breed with another full-twi'lek, eventually the offspring would look full twi'lek and not a hint of human. (That's what I headcanon for my Twi'lek Sith Inquisitor, anyway.)

Isn't it stated that Tulak Hord betrayed Kallig and ensured that his family fell to ruin, which is why your character starts out unaware of their heritage and/or from a family of commoners/slaves? If Kallig isn't human (though that's something I'm willing to dispute since his race is never confirmed and he's always seen with a mask, leaving it possible that he was an alien like the Sith Inquisitor) and his child/ren were half-alien offspring who eventually joined the Empire's alien slave population, odds are they'd have no shortage of alien partners to dilute the human bloodline and until the "flesh of his flesh" looks fully alien and not human.

And Kallig died at least a thousand years ago, right? Several characters seem to say the Dark Temple was constructed a thousand years ago, and I think it's implied that Tulak Hord died at least a thousand years ago, if not more--and he was Kallig's close personal friend. A lot can happen in a thousand years.
I agree on the Twi'lek breeding out the human features could hold true as well. I also agree Kalig could be an alien or have alien descendants.

Not sure I agree on the "Sure, why not. It's fantasy, so it's okay, if I think it's cool." route tho A rule is set, then the rule is changed for the basis of "Well, I want something unique." does not make for a good universe story. By that token, I may as well say, well, I want Goku in my Star Wars universe, so let's do it! We'll add some transformers too, they're aliens and space faring anyways, so it makes sense! Oh, they can transform into their own space ship!
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Eiter's Avatar


Eiter
01.10.2017 , 08:59 PM | #157
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilekTrekker View Post
I'm actually with the Clone Wars on this. "Sure, why not?" To me, fiction means more possibilities for creativity and imagination, not less.
True; however, 'creativity and imagination' does not mean 'let's throw everything we know overboard'. Quite the contrary.



Quote: Originally Posted by TwilekTrekker View Post
By that logic, the opposite could hold true. If a a half-twilek could breed with a full twi'lek, who could breed with another full twi'lek, who could breed with another full-twi'lek, eventually the offspring would look full twi'lek and not a hint of human. (That's what I headcanon for my Twi'lek Sith Inquisitor, anyway.)

Isn't it stated that Tulak Hord betrayed Kallig and ensured that his family fell to ruin, which is why your character starts out unaware of their heritage and/or from a family of commoners/slaves? If Kallig isn't human (though that's something I'm willing to dispute since his race is never confirmed and he's always seen with a mask, leaving it possible that he was an alien like the Sith Inquisitor) and his child/ren were half-alien offspring who eventually joined the Empire's alien slave population, odds are they'd have no shortage of alien partners to dilute the human bloodline and until the "flesh of his flesh" looks fully alien and not human.

And Kallig died at least a thousand years ago, right? Several characters seem to say the Dark Temple was constructed a thousand years ago, and I think it's implied that Tulak Hord died at least a thousand years ago, if not more--and he was Kallig's close personal friend. A lot can happen in a thousand years.
See? Imagination within the story, working with the framework. Great, isn't it?

cool-dude's Avatar


cool-dude
01.10.2017 , 10:56 PM | #158
This game's lore is based on the EU. Not the new canon. If you go with " sure, why not?", then the discussion is no longer about what makes sense in the bounds of the game's lore, but what you want to make sense. Nothing wrong with that, play how you want, but then that just makes this thread pointless.
I'm a cool dude

Thiago's Avatar


Thiago
01.11.2017 , 03:13 PM | #159
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilekTrekker View Post
If Kallig isn't human (though that's something I'm willing to dispute since his race is never confirmed and he's always seen with a mask, leaving it possible that he was an alien like the Sith Inquisitor) and his child/ren were half-alien offspring who eventually joined the Empire's alien slave population, odds are they'd have no shortage of alien partners to dilute the human bloodline and until the "flesh of his flesh" looks fully alien and not human.
No, the game cleary states that Kallig was human or pureblood if your inquisitor is either (namely "oddly pro-alien" assuming that the dark council was composed only by humans or pureblood by his time what equals lore check) or an alien if you pick any other species (what stretches the lore, as I pointed on my previous post).

Quote: Originally Posted by cool-dude View Post
This game's lore is based on the EU. Not the new canon. If you go with " sure, why not?", then the discussion is no longer about what makes sense in the bounds of the game's lore, but what you want to make sense. Nothing wrong with that, play how you want, but then that just makes this thread pointless.
This.

CrownofGold's Avatar


CrownofGold
01.11.2017 , 04:07 PM | #160
Quote: Originally Posted by eiter View Post
it was done by "sith alchemy" (think genetic engineering). They coundn't have kids the "natural" way. They may very well have tried, though.
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