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Most fitting race for Sith Inquisitor?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Most fitting race for Sith Inquisitor?

grania's Avatar


grania
01.09.2017 , 08:19 AM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Yes. They didn't look human.
Did they look like massassi? And humans.. *ahem* procreated with them? /yechsh

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Eiter's Avatar


Eiter
01.09.2017 , 08:23 AM | #142
Quote: Originally Posted by grania View Post
Did they look like massassi? And humans.. *ahem* procreated with them? /yechsh
It was done by "Sith alchemy" (think genetic engineering). They coundn't have kids the "natural" way. They may very well have tried, though.

grania's Avatar


grania
01.09.2017 , 08:24 AM | #143
oh thank goodness
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(getting Farscape flashbacks here, anyone else? just me? moving on then..)

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Eiter's Avatar


Eiter
01.09.2017 , 08:30 AM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilekTrekker View Post
I don't think there is any "fitting" race.

You are a former slave, and the Empire has plenty of those of every race. The opening scrawl pretty much says the Sith managed to conquer many new worlds and enslave many populations in the last war, and you are implied to be one of them. Since aliens are mostly slaves by default in the empire, especially twi'leks and zabraks, I'd almost argue that those races make most sense, despite the empire's human- and Sith pureblood supremacist attitude.

(And this is explained in the background lore as the Empire running low on competent Sith because of huge Sith casualties in the last war, along with their long proud tradition of encouraging Social Darwinist political climbing and backstabbing. Their talent pool has gotten so low, and their cold war with the Republic so draining, that they were basically forced to start allowing non-humans and non-pedigree humans and Sith purebloods around the time you were accepted into the academy.)

Personally, I think given the background lore that the Empire managed to conquer and enslave many a world in the last war (about 11 years prior?), any race would work for this class (including Miraluka and Mirialan), but for some reason only a handful were open for this class without Legacy unlocks. Oh well.
The wrench here is that Kallig calls the Inquisitor "flesh of my flesh", which suggests direct lineage. We then face the problem that we don't know exactly when Kallig lived. I'm not the most learned in lore, but I think this completely rules out Rattataki (an original choice, no less), and forces some serious headcanon on the part of the player for quite a few other species. I do like that challenge though.

grania's Avatar


grania
01.09.2017 , 08:50 AM | #145
Quote: Originally Posted by Eiter View Post
The wrench here is that Kallig calls the Inquisitor "flesh of my flesh", which suggests direct lineage. We then face the problem that we don't know exactly when Kallig lived. I'm not the most learned in lore, but I think this completely rules out Rattataki (an original choice, no less), and forces some serious headcanon on the part of the player for quite a few other species. I do like that challenge though.
I've mentioned this in the past, but when I played through as a twi'lek, I just treated Kallig like he was crazy. You're given those dialogue options, so I'm not sure why we need to prioritize one reaction over the other.

Though I can see why a player going through the story for the first time, not expecting this situation to come up, might find it perplexing. Who wouldn't want to know that they came from a line of super bad***es? On the other hand, for a lowly twi'lek slave, perhaps the more desirable story is how they rose from being dirt on the Empire's boot to running the galaxy with no special hereditary privileges.

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Eiter's Avatar


Eiter
01.09.2017 , 09:00 AM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by grania View Post
I've mentioned this in the past, but when I played through as a twi'lek, I just treated Kallig like he was crazy. You're given those dialogue options, so I'm not sure why we need to prioritize one reaction over the other.

Though I can see why a player going through the story for the first time, not expecting this situation to come up, might find it perplexing. Who wouldn't want to know that they came from a line of super bad***es? On the other hand, for a lowly twi'lek slave, perhaps the more desirable story is how they rose from being dirt on the Empire's boot to running the galaxy with no special hereditary privileges.
Good point. That... Never occured to me, I must admit.

grania's Avatar


grania
01.09.2017 , 09:30 AM | #147
It's still worth debating though! I just think the Kallig situation can be looked at in more than one way. I would love to know which race would qualify as most legit, *if* it's the intention of the player to believe him, and certainly if the player is a race (or species or whatever) in which it is conceivable.

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Thiago's Avatar


Thiago
01.09.2017 , 04:26 PM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by grania View Post
I've mentioned this in the past, but when I played through as a twi'lek, I just treated Kallig like he was crazy. You're given those dialogue options, so I'm not sure why we need to prioritize one reaction over the other.

Though I can see why a player going through the story for the first time, not expecting this situation to come up, might find it perplexing. Who wouldn't want to know that they came from a line of super bad***es? On the other hand, for a lowly twi'lek slave, perhaps the more desirable story is how they rose from being dirt on the Empire's boot to running the galaxy with no special hereditary privileges.
This is just an option, not the - lets call it - game canon. The game canon, the story as devised by the writters, assumes you are kallig's descendant, the whole SI plot goes arround you being heir to a long but forgotten sith lineage wich was "stolen" from you and how you crave your way back to top with the help of your greatgrampa ghost.
If you want play a "light side sith warrior" it is also possible. Doest it make sense? None at all. I know, there are people who will defend this to death, I am not interest in debating this here and I wouldnt like to deviate from the topic, just give a plain example of the options the game provides for those who are willing to taking big steps and make their own interpretation (it is an rpg after all).

So yes, you refuted ingame that kallig was your ancestor wich is ok and valid. Some others like me would like to experience the story for what it is with at least one toon wich is also valid and ok.

I rolled a rattataki btw but ended deleting him. Still considering a zabrak or a miraluka (already unlocked here). I think that Jerec from Dark Force was a very cool character.

Pureblood stretches the lore too much but are the best option so far for an alien race beyond humans and zabraks imo:
1) The story states that Kallig's family ran away when he fell. That was centuries ago. Most people assume that his family went into slavery after his death and lived as slaves ever since but that doesnt seems to make sense. We are talking about more than 1000 years here and the game doesn't state when or if they were put into slavery. As someone stated a few posts above, you can even reply why you were imprisioned (defending your people, criminal etc). So we can assume that Kallig's family were not slaves but fugitives.

2) If you start as a pureblood, the game says you were servant of a fallen sith lord (not Kallig!) and was put in slavery after his fall. You can just go around and figure that your family eventualy reintegrate the sith empire and centuries later just forgot its own bloodline until your master was ruined and you unfolded your own story after being trained as inquisitor.

As someone else posted somewhere, the SI and SW prologues are mirrowed. The SW is supposed to be a sith pureblood and Tremel choosed him because the other acolyte is not "pure" enough. The same goes with the inquisitor being considered a "low level" (slave, tainted) sith and Ffon being elected the favored from their oversee because he is a pureblood. So picking a pureblood also kinda ruins in a way this little plot flavor but they are great inquisitors since they represent the very essence of the dark side and its secrets.

Quote: Originally Posted by grania View Post
It's still worth debating though! I just think the Kallig situation can be looked at in more than one way. I would love to know which race would qualify as most legit, *if* it's the intention of the player to believe him, and certainly if the player is a race (or species or whatever) in which it is conceivable.
I'd say that humans and zabraks if you want keep it lore friendly.
Miralukas are a good choice and I think they fit (did a post about it here). Not sure about mirilians. Of course, we are talking about dark side corruption here (or light sided siths if you want).

Everything else goes from each player imagination. The only option that Bio really worked to justify was the pureblood because they were a last time addition on demand (fanbase outcried). Putting a pureblood as slave in the sith empire is something worth of noting.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.09.2017 , 08:05 PM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by Thiago View Post
I'd say that humans and zabraks if you want keep it lore friendly.
Miralukas are a good choice and I think they fit (did a post about it here). Not sure about mirilians. Of course, we are talking about dark side corruption here (or light sided siths if you want).

Everything else goes from each player imagination. The only option that Bio really worked to justify was the pureblood because they were a last time addition on demand (fanbase outcried). Putting a pureblood as slave in the sith empire is something worth of noting.
I love Miraluka as an Inquisitor, but I wouldn't call it lore friendly, since one has to unlock them Rep side first, to be an option Emp side and even then, that wasn't a possibility when the game started.

Also, we know the stories had specific characters in mind, when they created the class.

Smuggler for instance is supposed to be male. Female was an after thought, and why Corso is the way Corso is. "What? Oh! We need a LI for the females!"

And with the Chiss line, I'd argue that scene only really makes sense with Mirilian

This isn't to say other races won't/can't work, just that it seems they had a gender/race in mind for the story, but in the end neither matters, though there seems to be hints.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Thiago's Avatar


Thiago
01.09.2017 , 09:07 PM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
I love Miraluka as an Inquisitor, but I wouldn't call it lore friendly, since one has to unlock them Rep side first, to be an option Emp side and even then, that wasn't a possibility when the game started.

Also, we know the stories had specific characters in mind, when they created the class.

Smuggler for instance is supposed to be male. Female was an after thought, and why Corso is the way Corso is. "What? Oh! We need a LI for the females!"

And with the Chiss line, I'd argue that scene only really makes sense with Mirilian

This isn't to say other races won't/can't work, just that it seems they had a gender/race in mind for the story, but in the end neither matters, though there seems to be hints.
Heya,

I said that humans and zabraks are most lore-friendly and miralukas made a good choice. But lets take a minute to examine your statement because we can dig some really useful info here.

1- When I mention "lore friendly" I mean all now defunct expanded universe wich old republic was part, not only the cold war on old republic or what the game allows us to pick as default race or not. Hold on that though.

2- That being said, humans, zabraks and purebloobs are the only aviable choices to make a more or less convince connection to Kallig, wich was a dark lord more than 1600 years ago. By that time, we had perhaps some very, very few aliens dark jedi and many humans and purebloods sith running through Korriban.

Rattatakis were discovered about 25 years or so. They are mosly slaves when the game takes place, yes, but tracing a rattataki slave bloodline to a 1600 years old sith lord stretches a lot the plot. Again, it is up to players use their imagination here or not, they are free to imagine that Kallig's family (most likely purebloods or humans) ran to rattatak (an unknown planet at that time, again something that hurts the established lore) after his fall and interbreed like rabbits with rattatakis for centuries until one of them got cought by imperial forces, spotted as a force sensitive in any previously discussed circumstances (defending a group of countrymen from imperials, former criminal etc) and sent to Korriban.

Purebloods have all problems discussed previously (they were a last time addition due fanbase outcry, status disconnected with the reality of the pbs in the sith empire etc). Sure, one can roll a SI pb, zap through the story and just forget about it.

Now, even if you postulate that you are a SI rattataki and your greatgramma was a human or pb (lore friendly)who ran to rattatak, the game does you a great disfavor when postulated that kallig was an alien too (if you are an alien, matching his race with yours). This pretty much ruins the fun for all those lore-crazy like me because even if I could roll a ratta NOW, I would have to assume that Kallig was from the same race or from any race capable to interbreed with rattatkis even if the game justifies saying that by that time (there were only humand and purebloods on the dark council) Kallig was an exception (which also stretches the plot, soooo...).

This is also a problem with ALL alien races (twileks, mirilians, cathars, togrutas etc) if you pick one as your SI but you can justify and keep it lore-friendly with 3 excepetions:
- purebloods are threated like humans at this point of the plot (they get the same line as humans, stating that kallig was pro-alien not an alien himself);
- zabraks are very lore friendly here, Kallig could be one with almost no problem.
- Being and ancient race knowns to republic and sith empire, miralukas dont hurt the lore.

3- Let get back to that though now. NOT being a default choice in this game doesnt mean the race do not stand in the lore friendly area regarding the previous expanded universe, making them a valid choice for some classes. We have two famous miralukas who dwelled on the dark side being one them an inquisitor himself, Jerec (Dark Force II) and Visas Marr, from the very old republic era franchise. Same goes for rattataki as scoundrel (scum, aggresive bar fighter, gun hire, close range combat with kicks and knocks etc, leave the cyborg for gunslingers).

Regarding miralukas as inquisitors, I will quote myself here from my previous post (page 11).

Quote: Originally Posted by Thiago View Post
(SPOILERS AHEAD AND HELP NEEDED)
This also got my attention [regarding miralukas]:

"Those that fell to the dark side of the Force, however, took to the many ailments that came along with it. Their distortion of sight, in some cases, caused mass hysteria and visions, nightmares induced into reality, as hallucinations. Due to this, it was almost a natural fear for many to fall down the dark path. "
Source: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Miraluka

Sounds a lot fitting in the inquisitor class design by bioware, specially the madness spec, doesnt it? So far, besided human, the miraluka is the one that makes more sense lore-wise to me even not being part of the imperial races.
So, according to the now defunct expanded universe, the dark side miraluka fits very well in the inquisitor role designed by bioware team, including their in game powers and even the class specc as sorceror-madness. Some more gathered info:
- Old known race (like zabraks, different from rattatakis), culture focused on the Force.
- Bitter past with sith empire (they destroyed a miraluka colony). Threated like alien trash (fits with the slave background at the prologue).
>>>> While the light side sith warrior makes no sense at all, miralukas can provide a good choice for those willing to roll a light side inquisitor (anti-slavery, reformist etc).
- Your trainer on Drommund Kaas outside Zash office is a miraluka inquisitor!
- It is natural to miralukas deeply study the Force and dwells in its mysteries, juts like the inquisitor.
- Fallen to dark side is a tabu on miraluka society, something avoided like crazy by its members but when it happens provides some formidable and perverted force users (and sith). Inquisitor are the ultimate perverted sith lords, dark force users akin to alchemy and mental damage (common trace on dark side miralukas).
- Probably the only republic race that actually makes sense as inquisitor (discounting humans and cyborgs because).
- Actually one of the best races in game that makes sense as inquisitor.
- Kallig's mask has empty eye sockets, your imagination can run wild here and think his family interbreed mostly with miralukas and humans in all these 1600 years or so wich would also make a lot of sense since they were figitives.
- At least two characters to serve as base model if you like that (Jerec and Visas) while humans are boring (yeah) and zabraks... well, I guess we are mostly tired of darth maul clones. I can say I am. That was my main problem rolling an assassin (I did rolled a human sorcerer and kept him, Palpatine you know).

So yes, miralukas make perfect sense as inquisitors even more than zabraks since they were a very martial race and culture, disconnected from the sorcerer lore although passable as assassins but then again the plot is dense enough to makes you suspect if your zabrak is that smart and cunning especially if you keep remembering that darth maul (later retconned as dathomirian but with zabrak blood) failed over and over again to make grand plans (clone wars) and Koth was killed with a single blow from Palpatine, so... no thanks. Not for me. Yet miralukas as a SIs are a node to various sources from the previous UE.

Cheers.