Isn't having children kind of part of the marriage relationship? Even within marriages where the partners are of the same sex want to have children. That is not a bad thing, necessarily, it is just the norm.

 

Is it? I was under the impression that my wedding vows (secular) did not entail me carrying a tiny human in my stomach for roughly nine months. It might be "common", but that does not necessarily mean that every relationship involves having - or getting - children.

 

Ummm... Tatile, I hope you realize that if you keep using terms like "cis ally" and stuff then all you're doing is promoting a different kind of prejudice. After all I am a cisfemale. I was born a girl and I grew up into a woman, and I identify myself as such. Furthermore, I am straight. I am attracted to men in both social and sexual ways. And yet here I am supporting the inclusion of SGR in the game.

 

Just because someone is a cisgender and straight, doesn't mean they're automatically against the LGBT community. How can you expect other people to let go of their prejudices, and make a more inclusive game, if you don't let go of your own? Your own being, from what I've read in recent posts, is that people who are cisgender and straight are automatically against LGBT people and SGR content.

 

I was saying that, regardless of whether or not one is an ally of the LGBT community, that one cannot necessarily know how one thing or other will be received and reflected onto LGBT players, and that having a gay man, or a lesbian woman, or a bisexual person, or a trans woman, or a trans man, would allow for a different perspective and a widening of views on the story and the game.

 

Of course, I suppose I should at this point just stop talking, as it seems I've been mistaken.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Tatile

Is it? I was under the impression that my wedding vows (secular) did not entail me carrying a tiny human in my stomach for roughly nine months. It might be "common", but that does not necessarily mean that every relationship involves having - or getting - children.

 

I didn't say that. At the same time, that doesn't mean the possibility should not be 100% cut out of the game.

 

An inclusive game would have the options for people to choose how their characters want to be. And that would include with companions and stuff the possibility of having children, as it is something many people, both same gender and opposite gender, couples want to do; and it is something many couples, same gender and opposite gender, don't want. One group should not take priority over the other. That's the point of including SGR in a game: one kind of romance should not take priority over the other. And yet here are some of these posts recently being posted here that are almost doing just that: Not promoting equality where everyone has freedom of choice, but promoting one group people and one way of living over another.

 

Tatile, is this about promoting and advocating for SGR in SWTOR? Or about you forcing how you choose to live your life in terms of romance onto the game? Cause if it's the latter, then don't be surprised if people try to force how they want to live their lives onto you and keep the status quo within the game.

It's about choice.

I'd rather have the choice not to hear about children after the marriage proposal, thank you. I suppose I should not be talking about my personal life. Thank you.

I vote variety. There are characters that lend themselves beautifully for the marriage, family and children epilogues/talks, but there are characters which lend themselves to the different type of romance. This is particular true on the Jedi side, because I personally would not mind a romance where a Jedi manages to love, but not commit. Not because it is a quasi-monastic order, but because you are believably have two mature characters commited to their vocation more than they are to personal happiness. In an epic world, you have a chance to have aspirations uncommon to what you have in regular life. That's kindda cool Anyway, more RP options for a female player is something I will always vote for - and NOT at the expense of the male player. Edited February 28, 2014 by DomiSotto

I don't know why Bioware (or a representative or same) said in '09 that homosexuality didn't exist in the SW universe, that was like saying in the future we'll be living in caves and dinosaurs will return; it beggars believe, but even though they've recanted they seem to be very reluctant to actually dabble in SGRs because of the afeared drop in sales income because of the huge number of bigoted morons around the place.

 

Star Wars is a futuristic environment (despite it's time setting of being long ago) that explores new ideas, makes discoveries, and I very much doubt that any species or culture on the galaxy would reject homosexuality, especially as there are so many people around; they wouldn't care who liked whom, it wouldn't make any sense if they did; this is the SW galaxy, where LGBT matters are the least bizarre concept, and TOR should reflect that.

 

I'm glad Bioware made a start in this area, and seeing as how they managed to make all companions straight with romance and everything else; there are no prizes for guessing what they really meant when they said SGRs would be "difficult to implement"...

 

And as for relationship variety, or rather, not becoming a pair of non-stop breeding machines, the option for a lack of total commitment should be in.

Edited March 1, 2014 by sentientomega

In an ideal setting, all things being fair, there's no appreciable difference between a heterosexual romantic relationship and a homosexual romantic relationship. (NOTE: Mechanical differences during intercourse aren't something I consider "appreciable differences" - sex can be had many many many MANY ways. Anyway.) So why not just open up all of the romance lines for both sexes?

 

Seems the most equitable solution for an equality issue. -bp

In an ideal setting, all things being fair, there's no appreciable difference between a heterosexual romantic relationship and a homosexual romantic relationship. (NOTE: Mechanical differences during intercourse aren't something I consider "appreciable differences" - sex can be had many many many MANY ways. Anyway.) So why not just open up all of the romance lines for both sexes?

 

Seems the most equitable solution for an equality issue. -bp

 

It would, but I guess the swtor-team and/or EA were more afraid of the straight male gamer than the Dragon Age team.

 

On an unrelated note: I found that the SW-EU actually had a case of GRS.

Edited March 1, 2014 by drakensang

On an unrelated note: I found that the SW-EU actually had a case of GRS.

 

...that's such a weird way of spelling it. From the associated character page, it was a "sex and species" change, but... "genderative"? Whaaa.

 

"It was a possible means to hide one's identity, but it was generally seen as a rather extreme method. "

 

I can guess why that's the only documented reason for the surgery, in the EU.

...that's such a weird way of spelling it. From the associated character page, it was a "sex and species" change, but... "genderative"? Whaaa.

 

"It was a possible means to hide one's identity, but it was generally seen as a rather extreme method. "

 

I can guess why that's the only documented reason for the surgery, in the EU.

 

The author of the article probably didn't know the common terms. But come to think of it: If they can do trans-spezies, and taking into account the Star Wars cyborg technology, which should make a miniaturized hormone-synthesizer or functional hydraulic replacement parts not that difficult, it would reduce the transgender problem to reprodutive and ideological issues.

The author of the article probably didn't know the common terms. But come to think of it: If they can do trans-spezies, and taking into account the Star Wars cyborg technology, which should make a miniaturized hormone-synthesizer or functional hydraulic replacement parts not that difficult, it would reduce the transgender problem to reprodutive and ideological issues.

 

And considering the great wealth of cultural differences, not just extra-species, but intra-species, it's also likely that such ideological concerns would be limited to pockets. The Empire is strictly anti-alien, with a definite class system (from what I can tell) and rigid social structure, but the nature of their gender roles is never touched upon. We can then assume that is as reasonable to assume they throw out the gender and sex binaries as keep them*.

 

Also, reproductive problems aren't much for medical science - I feel the eugenics program hinted at in the Agent story line could have been largely artificial, ala A Brave New World; couple that with what we know of developing medical science here on Earth, and the option of using identical gametes, with or without a donor ovum, is a possibility.

 

 

*because I know that people love to assume that no evidence to the contrary is indicative of the set-up being identical to what the West has set up, I felt that it was kind of necessary to say that it could be quite alternative

It would, but I guess the swtor-team and/or EA were more afraid of the straight male gamer than the Dragon Age team.

 

On an unrelated note: I found that the SW-EU actually had a case of GRS.

 

I'm really not interested in guesses and suppositions. I want to know if there are potential issues with this particular solution.

 

Frankly, I don't care WHY the situation is what it is. I can worry about that after it's resolved. But sitting here guessing isn't going to make this effort move any faster. -bp

I'm really not interested in guesses and suppositions. I want to know if there are potential issues with this particular solution.

 

Frankly, I don't care WHY the situation is what it is. I can worry about that after it's resolved. But sitting here guessing isn't going to make this effort move any faster. -bp

 

Unfortunately, we don't have an answer for why Bioware didn't implement SGRAs the first time round (it ranges from "gays don't exist in Star Wars" (an official line that was later officially rescinded) to "but it's so hard *whine*") or why they continue to not have them in game (ranges from "but it's so hard *whine*" to "the Cartel Market/PvP/PvE/Swoop Racing/playing cat's cradle takes precedence")

 

So all we have is conjecture.

So, Bioware provides us with a housing system now. Yay, I guess...

I do have to wonder though, if you did anything that isn't considered heterosexual in your house, would they automatically move you to an apartment on planet Makeb?

So, Bioware provides us with a housing system now. Yay, I guess...

I do have to wonder though, if you did anything that isn't considered heterosexual in your house, would they automatically move you to an apartment on planet Makeb?

 

Only if you're Imperial.

And a dude.

So, Bioware provides us with a housing system now. Yay, I guess...

I do have to wonder though, if you did anything that isn't considered heterosexual in your house, would they automatically move you to an apartment on planet Makeb?

Only if you're Imperial.

And a dude.

 

Well, guess we all know where my sniper is off to... Can Cytharat come?????

Hi all, forgive me if this has been mentioned a million times, but I got a same-gender flirt option with a bounty contact yesterday, which was a refreshing surprise - is this a recent addition, or has this been around as long as the bounty contract week idea (I'm not sure when they started, I'm a new player...)?

It's been around as long as the BBA, but SGR[Flirt]s were only introduced with Makeb.

 

Edit: Presently, the BBA [Flirt] with the male twi'lek is the only male-male SGR option I know of, outside of the storyline with Lord Cytharat on Makeb. There are significantly more female-female SGR options, available to both factions, in the BBA, on Makeb, in the ROTHC expansion, with the Czerka daily-area story quest and, I've been reliably informed, in the up-coming Korriban/Tython flashpoints.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Tatile

It's been around as long as the BBA, but SGR[Flirt]s were only introduced with Makeb.

 

Edit: Presently, the BBA [Flirt] with the male twi'lek is the only male-male SGR option I know of, outside of the storyline with Lord Cytharat on Makeb. There are significantly more female-female SGR options, available to both factions, in the BBA, on Makeb, in the ROTHC expansion, with the Czerka daily-area story quest and, I've been reliably informed, in the up-coming Korriban/Tython flashpoints.

 

Cause if it's male-male it's a horrid thing that should be shunned by the masses, and protested against for being unnatural, immoral, unclean, and all things against Western ideals and culture. HOWEVER, if it's female-female it's perfectly reasonable, moral, clean, acceptable, and beautiful to behold, right? Right???

 

Hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me. Not to mention the fact that yaoi is so popular, even more so than yuri is, in both Japan and the US OF A (Yaoi & Yuri Lovers group is already on folder 4 for yaoi/male-male art and fiction, meanwhile yuri/female-female). Get it in your head Bioware: Give people male-male romances, and the female gamers WILL come.

And gay and bisexual men, lest we forget. Male-male based content is more important for and to them.

And gay and bisexual men, lest we forget. Male-male based content is more important for and to them.

 

That is true. I know a few gay men who REALLY want to see their toons with their head canon companions. Thank goodness most of them are on RP servers, so they can RP gay romances out.

No talk of it from BW in a long, long time or on any of the road maps they've laid out recently. I pretty much have given up hope of this along with a myriad of other player requests we've had since pre-launch days. If it doesn't benefit the Cartel Market, it's not going to make the game.

It's hard to understand that out of all the developers it's Bioware that has let the LGBT-Community (and of course everybody else who wants SGRs) down this way when it comes to SWTOR.

 

I have pretty much given up on it, probably why I haven't played for about 3 months.

 

The moment the updates became all about the Cartell Market, it was pretty clear that this was it.

I doubt there are any plans anymore to implement SGR with any old companions, maybe one day they'll introduce 2 new companions who have an SGR option.

Probably for a few thousand cartell coins.

 

Not that this is the first guarantee that has been broken by BW, it is just one more let-down, after the mediocre DA2, the catastrophic ME3 ending and the troubles at the SWTOR start.

 

If DA:Inquisition is also fubar, that's definitely IT for me with BW.

Guys, I honestly think a little patience on our part would go a long way. We aren't asking for Big Macs at MacDonald's that we want here & now, but for people to add something to complex software with complex coding. From my own schooling in a bit of game design, I know it takes a lot of work to design and implement things in video games and it's probably more than you realize. All you know is the finished package, and I'm going to assume many of you are ignorant about what goes into it.

 

Here's some links about what the work entails:

Common Questions about Video Game Development

Why is it so hard to develop a MMO

Hard Truths About Game Design

So I want to Make an MMO, but have no clue how

 

If the developers would write a forum post detailing everything that has to go into designing a companion from new voices to writing in the code, I bet it wouldn't be as simple as many seem to think. In fact, I'm sure it would show that they are working on it but it simply takes time. And I'm willing to be patient and wait for it. Besides, romanceable companions aren't all SWTOR has to offer. Ever tried doing one of the operations?

No, Vadess, in the two years (more, if you consider the pre-launch forums that have since been largely deleted) of waiting for this content, we've been patient and we have discussed and hashed over, many times, the work that requires adding content or making a companion.

 

Mind that Treek was not part of the pre-release content that was being worked on, yet was delayed, like HK-51 was, and yet is still a full companion that was released after launch.

 

And we haven't asked for fully new companions either, but rather additional content to existing companions. And have asked many times how that might be implemented, offering up our ideas on how to do so. We have literally received nothing. Literally nothing.

 

The only communication we have had specifically on this topic, on having same-gender romances in the game, was when Musco posted (in this thread) "Oh, we're sorry that gay men are Imperials and lesbians are Republic, we might not do that again in the future, but we can't be sure. Soz."

 

Many, many, many players have left that game because of Bioware's lack of care. I heal HM content at the moment - I know there's a game "outside" of story content, but I like story content and I want story content. This game is built on story content, that's what makes it unique. What should make Bioware unique is its commitment to progressive access and representation of romances in their games - but from the sheer level of silent bollocks that Austin has provided its players, it's *********** mindboggling how they can claim to be part of Bioware. You can't even talk to a single person at the company.

 

I know my being fed up isn't terribly "nice", but that's life. Currently, there's not another game on the market that's got my interest when it comes to end-game content (WoW's changed a lot and I can't be arsed to level to, what, 100?) and I'm still hoping - because for some reason I am an existential masochist - that they'll pull their finger out and put in some damn story content, but it doesn't look likely considering they're calling "Buy your own flat" an expansion.

Well, Tatile, have you seen what's on the PTS? I believe in 2.7 more story is coming to the game. There is also Role Playing. I love the class stories but it is awesome to write your own as well. And I've found quite a few people that our open to SGR RP. Edited March 30, 2014 by vadess