Maybe.

 

But they laugh at the 99% rest of the players.

 

 

 

It's exactly like this.

 

But - PvP players won't do a thing about those who drag the reputation of the *whole* PvP players down - I don't know why, but I tend to believe that there is some sort of cameraderie, omertá or something like that. In German language there's a proverb describing exactly what I mean : " A crow won't hack out anothoer crow's eye."

 

PvP players stick together like glue.

If someone's ego is poured into a game so dramatically, give them the mental health phone number for addiction services. I have never laughed at newer or "not as talented" players in any game I've played and "became good" or even became "decent" in.

It's called taking a slice of humble pie.

If someone's ego is poured into a game so dramatically, give them the mental health phone number for addiction services. I have never laughed at newer or "not as talented" players in any game I've played and "became good" or even became "decent" in.

 

It's called taking a slice of humble pie.

Maybe, but these foruims are full of ranting about "bads", "carebears", "bottom feeders" and whatever other words are invented to insult those who are just not at the top positions.

And the chat is full of similar rantings as well.

My former pvp guild included a radiologist, a gastroenterologist, a dentist, a stock broker, and others I'm probably forgetting. A couple of other PvP friends I know include an eye surgeon and a lawyer.

 

Try again.

I think it is kind of hard to point fingers here. This game has so many players and I'm sure a lot of them have a life. My friends and I are in 8th grade and play this game as I am sure people in their 50s play it. The point is that you can't call some guy who just got unbeatable and came in first place in two warzones a low life gamer who lives in his mother's basement simply because he may have just had a good day in pvp as I have and I am sure other people do. I'm not saying that there aren't any no life gamers who play this game but you can't just call them that because they killed you a few times and got unbeatable. There would be no evidence to support that claim.

I think it is kind of hard to point fingers here. This game has so many players and I'm sure a lot of them have a life. My friends and I are in 8th grade and play this game as I am sure people in their 50s play it. The point is that you can't call some guy who just got unbeatable and came in first place in two warzones a low life gamer who lives in his mother's basement simply because he may have just had a good day in pvp as I have and I am sure other people do. I'm not saying that there aren't any no life gamers who play this game but you can't just call them that because they killed you a few times and got unbeatable. There would be no evidence to support that claim.

Wow...an 8th grader with a rational argument. Nicely played! Anyone want to call the 8th grader a d-bag because s/he happens to like being successful at PvP? Come on, it's the PvP forum. All you PvP haterz should be jumping onto this like sharks on pork chop.

Wow...an 8th grader with a rational argument. Nicely played! Anyone want to call the 8th grader a d-bag because s/he happens to like being successful at PvP? Come on, it's the PvP forum. All you PvP haterz should be jumping onto this like sharks on pork chop.

Kind of like how everyone is so ready to jump on the people who have the audacity to complain about the disrespect casual players display?

But hey, who am I to complain? I mean, people think the competitive players are a bunch of egotistical punks who cause all the problems and give negative rep to PvP, yet people also forget raging is the product of something, not the catalyst.

Woops, there I go again with the big words. Let's try this in a different way:

"u noobs all suk, l2p, h2f and make em pay"

I think it is kind of hard to point fingers here. This game has so many players and I'm sure a lot of them have a life. My friends and I are in 8th grade and play this game as I am sure people in their 50s play it. The point is that you can't call some guy who just got unbeatable and came in first place in two warzones a low life gamer who lives in his mother's basement simply because he may have just had a good day in pvp as I have and I am sure other people do. I'm not saying that there aren't any no life gamers who play this game but you can't just call them that because they killed you a few times and got unbeatable. There would be no evidence to support that claim.

Congrats on forming a more logical and fact based argument than the majority of people in this thread.

Kind of like how everyone is so ready to jump on the people who have the audacity to complain about the disrespect casual players display?

Yes, exactly like that.

But hey, who am I to complain? I mean, people think the competitive players are a bunch of egotistical punks who cause all the problems and give negative rep to PvP, yet people also forget raging is the product of something, not the catalyst.

I take it that your strawman here (i.e., "people think") is actually your opinion. So, why not take credit for it?

Woops, there I go again with the big words. Let's try this in a different way:

 

"u noobs all suk, l2p, h2f and make em pay"

Yes, let's throw in an insult, further validating the OPs original hypothesis.

Usually it's because those guys that are in the EGL and UGL are more often than not total jerks in every aspect of their life. Successful in day jobs or not. Now this game isn't part of the EGL and UGL and with the hero engine it probably never will be. Have a buddy who plays COD on one of those squads and when i'm at his house watching the daily activity of these types of clans the perceived notion is that people WILL be fired or kicked off the team if they don't have a positive K/D ratio or if they're at fault for letting the enemy team win. And honestly while he's playing i'm not sure why i'm friends with him lol.

This perception has bled over onto MMO "normal" community as you often get guys who live, bleed, eat, and die over pvp berating casuals over who's guarding the node and who goes where. Then these same guys who have tactics pounded into their head by a clan leader who's under such pressure for his reputation and 40 dollar a month check he gets for online competitive play decide they can't understand why casuals don't have the same mentality about PVP that they do.

Then they come on forums and cry about why people don't know to kill healers or why people are camping at the PVE portion of the PVP warzone.

So... this goes on for some time then the hardcore pvper gets smart and only que's with his buddies. These pre-made facerollers then que most of the time against other well made well organized squads and things are just great. Until.... one of these squads ends up in a pvp match against a team of casuals. We all know what happens in this warzone. Consequences of such are that the facerolled come to forums and complain about how pre-mades are breaking pvp. This is an endless cycle.

In conclusion: Casuals have a negative connotation of good pvpers because they feel that in order to be good at something you have to practice ALL THE TIME and be an intense, loud, order giving, drill sgt.. Well.... hate to tell ya, some people are just good at doing some things and practice helps but it isn't always the case. In the case of practice realize that some of these guys have been playing MMO pvp for years now.

that is all.

-Ifolad

Yes, exactly like that.

 

I take it that your strawman here (i.e., "people think") is actually your opinion. So, why not take credit for it?

 

Yes, let's throw in an insult, further validating the OPs original hypothesis.

It's not a strawman. I've been argueing with this person for a while. He thinks "ranting" at "bads" is justified and they deserve, and the "bads" and/or casuals are the only problem, or at least the "source" of the problem that should be fixed. The insult was perobably targeted at bads and/or casuals.

It's not a strawman. I've been argueing with this person for a while. He thinks "ranting" at "bads" is justified and they deserve, and the "bads" and/or casuals are the only problem, or at least the "source" of the problem that should be fixed. The insult was perobably targeted at bads and/or casuals.

ty...totally misread that.

It all started with this....

 

Thank you for the LOL. I must be insane for not watching every South Park episode in existence...

... but you can't just call them that because they killed you a few times and got unbeatable. There would be no evidence to support that claim.

Congrats on forming a more logical and fact based argument than the majority of people in this thread.

You miss the point. People who spout insults do not do so because they believe they are factually correct.

The point of an insult is to draw a negative emotional response (i.e. trolling). You tell me "you so bad you should stop queuing for WZ" so I tell you to "try leaving your mother's basement more than once a year you 40 year old no life gaming nerd".

The solution is not to hold an inquiry into the truth or falsity of a stereotype or insult, the solution is to try and make the interwebz (or at least the SWTOR part of it) a more polite and friendly place. If you are not already a polite person, start with your own behavior. Next you can discourage obnoxious behavior in your friends / teammates.

If your PvP warzone is not fun because you got grouped up with a bunch of a bads, that is not the bad's fault. Apply pressure to BW, not the bads. E.g. if BW added 8v8 challenge matches (no rewards, just fun) that would provide goods who want to play an 8-man WZ the opportunity to have full control over their own team composition and their opponents.

You miss the point. People who spout insults do not do so because they believe they are factually correct.

 

The point of an insult is to draw a negative emotional response (i.e. trolling). You tell me "you so bad you should stop queuing for WZ" so I tell you to "try leaving your mother's basement more than once a year you 40 year old no life gaming nerd".

 

The solution is not to hold an inquiry into the truth or falsity of a stereotype or insult, the solution is to try and make the interwebz (or at least the SWTOR part of it) a more polite and friendly place. If you are not already a polite person, start with your own behavior. Next you can discourage obnoxious behavior in your friends / teammates.

 

If your PvP warzone is not fun because you got grouped up with a bunch of a bads, that is not the bad's fault. Apply pressure to BW, not the bads. E.g. if BW added 8v8 challenge matches (no rewards, just fun) that would provide goods who want to play an 8-man WZ the opportunity to have full control over their own team composition and their opponents.

Miss the point of what? Some 8th grade kid is able to comprehend that just because he loses in a video game does not automatically make the people that beat him "no lifers". That seems to be more than a lot of people whom posted in this thread are capable of acknowledging.

If I call you bad, its because *you are bad*. Not to sound too much like a hipster, but "trolling" has become way too mainstream. 99% of what people say is trolling is not. If someone says youre bad, chances are its because youre bad, not because youre being trolled. (The word 'you' here is a general term, not the person that I quoted).

This bolded paragraph tho..... do the words "personal responsibility" mean anything to you?

If I call you bad, its because *you are bad*. Not to sound too much like a hipster, but "trolling" has become way too mainstream. 99% of what people say is trolling is not. If someone says youre bad, chances are its because youre bad, not because youre being trolled. (The word 'you' here is a general term, not the person that I quoted).

Do you tell ugly co-workers how ugly they are each and every day and how you don't want to have sex with them because they are ugly?

There are many statements you and I could make every day that would serve no useful purpose regardless of how true they are.

This bolded paragraph tho..... do the words "personal responsibility" mean anything to you?

yes. Perhaps our difference is in our definitions of this word.

• It is not the responsibility of the bads to play better so you will have a more enjoyable game
  
• it is not your responsibility to soft play the bads so they can have a more enjoyable game
  
• it is BW's responsibility to design a PvP system that allows all (or as many as possible) to enjoy PvP
  

Let us contrast ranked arenas with the unranked queue. In Arena's BW gives goods and bads some nice tools for having a better experience. It is easy to form a 4-man team, thereby taking personal responsibility for who your teammates are.

While we don't have a challenge match feature yet, if 2 4-man teams of bads agree to queue at the same time they will soon find themselves playing one another (due to the rating based match making), thereby making a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

In this venue, whether you are good or bad, it is your own fault if your teammates (and even your opponents) are vastly better (worse) than you are.

Contrast this with 8v8 WZ; (Hypothetical: you like 8v8 objective WZs and want to play them) In this case you often are stuck with bads on your team (up to 4 of them!) or getting face rolled by a vastly superior team (if you are bad). Why do players have so much less control over who their teammates and opponents are in this case compared to ranked Arenas? Answer: it is BW's fault that this venue is inferior.

Congrats on forming a more logical and fact based argument than the majority of people in this thread.

Thank you!

Why are 'good PvPers' so keen on insulting everyone else? Most of the negative connotation around 'good PvPers' is that they're all complete *****. True or not- the reality is almost everyone has run into that top end pvp guild which;

-camps newbie areas on PvP servers than tells people they can one shot with ease to get good, or not roll on a pvp server if they didn't want to be camped for hours

-tells other players on their team who have just hit max level they suck, and/or brags non-stop about killing someone 3v1 while in gear that gives them twice the health and damage of that player

-essentially, claims gear doesn't equal skill- while having the best gear and absolutely refusing to ever take it off when they duel someone with far poorer gear

-in the past in particular, it often did take dozens of hours a week for months on end to get top end gear, not as much the case now but it's still not something a casual player will get particularly quickly; especially since most casuals don't devote themselves fully to a single mode of play

-And of course, the fully geared guild which fields full premades and spends hours stomping non-rated queues and winning matches 6-0 or 600-0 or etc...

I don't think I really ever hear people bashing good players- but when you act like a jerk, surprise, people don't like you. Do you do any of the above? If so- they aren't pissed off at your 'skill', no matter how hard it makes you thinking that people hate you cuz u gud.

Why are 'good PvPers' so keen on insulting everyone else? Most of the negative connotation around 'good PvPers' is that they're all complete *****. True or not- the reality is almost everyone has run into that top end pvp guild which;

-camps newbie areas on PvP servers than tells people they can one shot with ease to get good, or not roll on a pvp server if they didn't want to be camped for hours

-tells other players on their team who have just hit max level they suck, and/or brags non-stop about killing someone 3v1 while in gear that gives them twice the health and damage of that player

-essentially, claims gear doesn't equal skill- while having the best gear and absolutely refusing to ever take it off when they duel someone with far poorer gear

-in the past in particular, it often did take dozens of hours a week for months on end to get top end gear, not as much the case now but it's still not something a casual player will get particularly quickly; especially since most casuals don't devote themselves fully to a single mode of play

-And of course, the fully geared guild which fields full premades and spends hours stomping non-rated queues and winning matches 6-0 or 600-0 or etc...

 

I don't think I really ever hear people bashing good players- but when you act like a jerk, surprise, people don't like you. Do you do any of the above? If so- they aren't pissed off at your 'skill', no matter how hard it makes you thinking that people hate you cuz u gud.

People who think that they are "good" at PvP are very keen on insulting other players because they can't do things up to their own little expectations. It is fine to have expectations but it is not cool to just badmouth other people because they can't live up to your expectations. It's better to encourage people to do better in pvp than to discourage them not to do good!

There are some legit people who are really good a pvp, I won't deny that...... But in past MMO's I've found a lot of the so called "Best of the Best PvP'ers" are actually just cheaters.. Happen in Aion, one the best PvP guilds on the server had 3/4 of their guild banned for hacking/exploiting in pvp. Saw something similar happen in Conan MMO.

You have PvP'ers using macro's and 3rd party software to help automate their actions... I haven't played Rift in a long time but back when it came out if you didn't have really good PvP macro's you pretty much would lose all the time... having 3rd party programs help you win does not make you a good pvp'er.

Cheating is extremely rampant in first person shooters...

Based on what evidence? There is literally zero evidence to back up any stereotype you are implying. Other than baseless accusations and assumptions......

 

Youre the perfect example of what I am talking about. If someone is better than you it *must* be b/c they have no life and spend all their time playing the game. Sadly, I think you would find that to be the exact opposite of what the real situation is.

 

You die in PvP and do you picture that fat guy from the WoW South Park episode as your opponent? Im certain there are a few people like that, but nowhere near what you would like to believe.

 

 

As far as people claiming you need a lot of practice to actually be good at this game, you do not. If youre capable of some pretty basic memory skills, perception and general situational awareness you are already in the top tier of players. After that its simply pushing the right buttons at the right times. This game is far from hard.

 

Being competitive is so frowned upon and I dont really understand it. People with competitive spirit generally apply it to everything they do. Yet its perceived by the general player-base as massive negative. Go figure.

It can be inferred from this text that you clearly live in your parents basement, are a no-lifer, and spam grenades in regs 24/7.

Just saying.

It can be inferred from this text that you clearly live in your parents basement, are a no-lifer, and spam grenades in regs 24/7.

Just saying.

I have to ask, what part of the text makes you think that? All I can infer is that this guy's very annoyed because of the behaviour of some people.

So I feel like this thread is only further proving that there is a negative connotation around being successful and competitive in PvP, but it is not explaining much of why. And lots of completely off-topic rants....

Just because someone is good it means nothing about their irl status. Many people are just upset that they lost.

However, there are signs that people pick up on and then use in their trash talk to better pvprs.

If a better pvp'r frequently talks trash to obvious beginners then it may mean that the better pvpr's is not happy with their life. I don't mean talking trash to decent pvpr's because that is an important part of pvp but being mean over and over is questionable.

Also, if a pvp'r feels the need to stack the odds in their favor and pugstomp for hours at a time (more than just their daily and weekly) then they don't like competition and this may also be a sign of their not being happy irl. A healthy and well off individual doesn't need to crush others over and over.

And of course if you see someone who plays 4+ hours a day everyday and always has the top gear then he is playing too much to have a fulfilling life outside of gaming. Some people are happy with this though and if they are happy then they are doing what they should be but some are also making up for something missing irl.

These things all contribute to why some people are viewed negatively. Sure, there are people who play between 5 and 15 hours most weeks (with occasional binges), are well above average pvprs, have a nice job, and are happy with their lives. I consider myself one of these people and so I don't believe that all good pvprs are no lifers.

I actually believe that many truly good pvpr's fit into the casual and nice life category. These are the players that are good when pugging against a better team and when in a premade. These are the people who do well with lesser gear and enjoy competition.

Imo, it is mainly the people wrongly considered good that fit into the poor life category. These are the people that stack comms before updates, always have the best gear, premade most of the time with only other geared players, and if they do pug they go strictly for scoreboard stats. Being a long time pvp'r I know this is the way to be thought of as one of the best and I used to do it myself in other games (although I always pugged a lot since I like pugging) and surprise surprise but I wasn't nearly as happy with my life then as I am now.

Boils down to jealousy. People hate what they can't achieve.

What achievment? Sorry I do not give a rats *** about what you or anyone else "achieves" here and I am pretty sure the majority of casuals doesn't give a damn either.

Rather it's pseudopros who think they can entitle themselves to look and talk down to people who are "less" skilled than them, even though it is really just a matter of playtime most of the time.