I've heard two different stories about how balance was brought to the force in Episode VI. I need some clarification as to which one is correct.

 

Story 1) It was actually Luke Skywalker who brought balance to the force when he used a bit of rage to defeat Lord Vader, but he never turned to the dark side. He in fact brought balance to the force by being in the middle. He defeated Vader with rage, yet never went to the dark side. Balance was brought to the force.

 

Story 2) Vader brought balance to the force after being defeated by Luke and killing Sidious. He had started as a Jedi, fell to the dark side, then returned to the light after looking into the face of his son without his mask on. He returned after death as a force apparition, something only powerful Jedi are capable of doing. Having been a disciple of the dark side and returning to the light, he brought balance to the force.

 

I believe the first one to be true the most because Revan also followed both paths but did not bring balance to the force, which is somewhat similar to the second scenario. Please clarify for me which of these is true.

Vader all the way, man.

Ok, dont crucify me but this is just what I think.

 

The whole balance thing was never brought up until episode one, when anikin was introduced. At the time there were hundreds of Jedi, the republic was in full swing and the jedi was basically the "go to guys" for anything. Need a little help with setting the ruling parties of a general planet from passing bad laws? Call the Jedi. Your favorite senator got kidnapped? Call the Jedi. Etc, Etc.

 

Now, since the time that "The rule of one" was introduced the sith have been reclusive, hardley seen. they basically have faded into legend. When Darth Maul attacks Qui-gon and Obi on Tattooine I got the Impression that they were really surprised, and a sith hadn't been seen for a long time.

 

So with this thinking It leads me to believe that Anikin brought balance to the force when he turned to the dark side, helping the Emperor enact order 66 and slaying the Jedi. Destroying the council, and forcing the majority into hiding only to be hunted down and killed.

 

At the time of Episodes IV-VI force sensitives are rare, practicaly unheard of. We got Vader, and his master. Somewhere out there Starkiller is running around. We also have a young Luke, and an aging Obi-won. Yoda is out in the swamps really not doing to much. So at that score we have 3 and 3.

 

Luke is the redeemer. He opens his fathers eyes to the error of his ways. In the end vador throws his master to his death, sacrificing himself to save luke. Luke goes on to found a new Jedi council, hoping it will be a more "force tolerable" accadamy....I got the impression from the books that he intended to train all three paths: light, neutral and dark. Some students run off to form a new Sith accadamy, Luke's own nephew gets dragged into it and we're back to what we had in the days of ToR.

 

We see these same Ideals in ToR. Thousands of years before the acts of Anikin and Luke. We have Jedi's running around with full dark side influance, and Sith with Light side influance. And the few rare instances where a person has been able to stay completely neutral. Sure the galaxy is at war, but at least things are balanced.

 

So in short, if Darth Krayt had never enacted the rule of one cutting the Siths power base down, there would have most likely been more sith around during the time frame of episode's I-VI negating the need for balance to be brought back to the force.

 

Again, just my thoughts:o

Ok, dont crucify me but this is just what I think.

 

The whole balance thing was never brought up until episode one, when anikin was introduced. At the time there were hundreds of Jedi, the republic was in full swing and the jedi was basically the "go to guys" for anything. Need a little help with setting the ruling parties of a general planet from passing bad laws? Call the Jedi. Your favorite senator got kidnapped? Call the Jedi. Etc, Etc.

 

Now, since the time that "The rule of one" was introduced the sith have been reclusive, hardley seen. they basically have faded into legend. When Darth Maul attacks Qui-gon and Obi on Tattooine I got the Impression that they were really surprised, and a sith hadn't been seen for a long time.

 

So with this thinking It leads me to believe that Anikin brought balance to the force when he turned to the dark side, helping the Emperor enact order 66 and slaying the Jedi. Destroying the council, and forcing the majority into hiding only to be hunted down and killed.

 

At the time of Episodes IV-VI force sensitives are rare, practicaly unheard of. We got Vader, and his master. Somewhere out there Starkiller is running around. We also have a young Luke, and an aging Obi-won. Yoda is out in the swamps really not doing to much. So at that score we have 3 and 3.

 

Luke is the redeemer. He opens his fathers eyes to the error of his ways. In the end vador throws his master to his death, sacrificing himself to save luke. Luke goes on to found a new Jedi council, hoping it will be a more "force tolerable" accadamy....I got the impression from the books that he intended to train all three paths: light, neutral and dark. Some students run off to form a new Sith accadamy, Luke's own nephew gets dragged into it and we're back to what we had in the days of ToR.

 

We see these same Ideals in ToR. Thousands of years before the acts of Anikin and Luke. We have Jedi's running around with full dark side influance, and Sith with Light side influance. And the few rare instances where a person has been able to stay completely neutral. Sure the galaxy is at war, but at least things are balanced.

 

So in short, if Darth Krayt had never enacted the rule of one cutting the Siths power base down, there would have most likely been more sith around during the time frame of episode's I-VI negating the need for balance to be brought back to the force.

 

Again, just my thoughts:o

 

I wouldn't crucify you for that, in fact you actually made me remember something from III. When Obi Wan defeated Anakin and said "it was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them." When in fact at the end of VI, he DID destroy the Sith when he defeated Sidious. So it seems in context with the trilogy's "prophecy" balance bringer, it WAS Anakin. I believe fully that from the moment he decided to kill Sidious to save Luke, he was no longer Darth Vader, but Anakin Skywalker.

The entire first six episodes is essentially the saga of Anakin Skywalker's life. The prophecy of the "Son of Suns" was about Anakin, although Luke could fit the title because he was raised on Tatooine, he wasn't born there. Anakin becoming Darth Vader was just a detour in the path to fulfillment. When he rejected the Dark Side (which has never been done under one's own will power outside of Anakin) he ceased to be Darth Vader and once again became Anakin Skywalker, Jedi Master, and destroyed the Sith Order by destroying both Darth Vader and Sidious, fulfilling the prophecy and restoring balance to the Force through the destruction of the Sith Order.

 

The title "Return of the Jedi" doesn't actually refer to Luke, because he'd already been a Jedi since Empire Strikes Back, though he became a full fledged Master on the Death Star II (even though no one was around to tell him this). Instead, the title refers to Anakin rejecting the Dark Side, and in turn the Sith Order, and returning to the Light, becoming a Jedi once more.

 

Edit: I may have gotten my prophecies mixed up. Anakin was either the Son of Suns or the Chosen One, or both. I dunno.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Aximand

I've heard two different stories about how balance was brought to the force in Episode VI. I need some clarification as to which one is correct.

 

Story 1) It was actually Luke Skywalker who brought balance to the force when he used a bit of rage to defeat Lord Vader, but he never turned to the dark side. He in fact brought balance to the force by being in the middle. He defeated Vader with rage, yet never went to the dark side. Balance was brought to the force.

 

I believe the first one to be true the most because Revan also followed both paths but did not bring balance to the force, which is somewhat similar to the second scenario. Please clarify for me which of these is true.

 

Not sure how this is supposed to bring balance, a momentary lapse is not the same as going down the Darkside. Besides when the Emperor returned he corrupted Luke, and turned him Sith, it was only thanks to Leia that he was returned to the Light.

Ok, dont crucify me but this is just what I think.

This is a theory many come up with, but I'm afraid it is incorrect.

 

The Force was actually sent out of balance when Darth Sidious and his master Darth Plagueis performed a potent ritual that shifted the Force towards the dark side, disrupting the balance. In response the Force created the Chosen One who was destined to destroy the Sith and in doing so undo the imbalance Sidious and Plagueis had caused.

 

So no, wiping out the Jedi Order and all didn't really help. That said the new Order was much better, and had an improved understanding of the Force. Coming to realise balance meant light = dark.

 

In response to the OP, given that Anakin is the Chosen One I'd say it was his actions that restored balance. That said there is also a prophecy called the Son of Suns which reads "…And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as THE SON OF THE SUNS." Which could be referring to Luke Skywalker. I wouldn't read to much into the encounter on the Death Star though. Lets remember that in the end Luke rejected the dark side, which lead to the Emperor attacking him and Vader destroying the Emperor.

 

P.S. Lastrada have you watched the Mortis arc of TCW? I only ask this because it the plot could be used to make more sense of this, but I don't want to spoil it.

it was confirmed by Lucas that Vader/Anakin brought balance to the force. He is the chosen one after all, not Luke.

The title "Return of the Jedi" doesn't actually refer to Luke, because he'd already been a Jedi since Empire Strikes Back, though he became a full fledged Master on the Death Star II (even though no one was around to tell him this). Instead, the title refers to Anakin rejecting the Dark Side, and in turn the Sith Order, and returning to the Light, becoming a Jedi once more.

 

But the original title was Revenge of the Jedi. I'm not saying, but I'm just saying....

 

it was confirmed by Lucas that Vader/Anakin brought balance to the force. He is the chosen one after all, not Luke.

Yeah, but let's be honest. Lucas' understanding of Star Wars is less ideal than you'd expect.

But the original title was Revenge of the Jedi. I'm not saying, but I'm just saying....

 

 

Yeah, but let's be honest. Lucas' understanding of Star Wars is less ideal than you'd expect.

 

Yea, that was the original title, but not the published title. Therefore it has absolutely no baring on anything at all, so I have no idea why you brought it up.

According to GL Anakin is the chosen one, and the prophecy was accomplished when he killed sidious, but what the Jedi fanboys won't accept is that it was also necessary that he destroy the jedi, any imbalance will be destroyed whether it be light or dark. The machinations of the Jedi and the Sith always ALWAYS result in near-total annihilation for all involved, whether it be the Jedi this century or the sith the next is inconsequential, it's a limitless cycle of death and rebirth. That's the ONLY way you can explain a galactic society that has been repeating the exact same war for 5,000 years meanwhile ignoring nearly all technological and social innovations that may improve galactic life as a whole. It's the reason the Star Cabal exists.

According to GL Anakin is the chosen one, and the prophecy was accomplished when he killed sidious, but what the Jedi fanboys won't accept is that it was also necessary that he destroy the jedi,

 

You were correct up until the last line.

i see it like this.

like 400ish jedi, and only 1-2 Dark Jedi.

so to bring balance, kill 398 jedi!

done balance made.

You were correct up until the last line.

Well actually, in a way he is right. I mean lets look at an analogy. Take the Mortis arc from The Clone Wars series, but replace the Son with Sidious and the Daughter with the Jedi. I'll put in in spoiler tags just because.

 

Now consider this, what if, as the Prophecy had foretold, Anakin just killed the Son/Sith and nobody else? Then there would be too much light in the galaxy and not enough dark, and the light would probably collapse in on itself. Like the Father says "Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it."

 

In order to restore balance, the Son either had to be reigned in or both of them destroyed. The former was impossible, so the latter was forced to occur. Likewise the Anakin would have been incapable of 'reigning in' Sidious so the only way to restore balance was to destroy the Sith and the Jedi. Effectively reset the dials.

 

Given that, the OP might actually have a point. This is the first time I've ever thought of it like this.

Well actually, in a way he is right. I mean lets look at an analogy. Take the Mortis arc from The Clone Wars series, but replace the Son with Sidious and the Daughter with the Jedi. I'll put in in spoiler tags just because.

 

1. The Son was growing more powerful before Anakin arrived on Mortis, just like Darth Sidious was growing more powerful, which had shifted the Force out of balance, though not hugely.
    
    
   
2. The Son in the end killed the Daughter in his quest for power, just as Sidious destroyed the Jedi through Order 66. The former resulted in Mortis going completely to the dark side, the latter the entire galaxy.
    
    
   
3. The Son then turned Anakin to the dark side and Anakin joined him in his mission, Sidious too turned Anakin to the dark side for a similar purpose. However the Father erased Anakin's memories and he returned to the light. Just as Luke Skywalker turned Darth Vader away from the dark side.
    
    
   
4. Anakin, now a Jedi again, kills the Son. Just like Vader after becoming Anakin again killed Sidious. Both actions restored balance to the Force. Through mutual destruction.
   

Now consider this, what if, as the Prophecy had foretold, Anakin just killed the Son/Sith and nobody else? Then there would be too much light in the galaxy and not enough dark, and the light would probably collapse in on itself. Like the Father says "Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it."

 

In order to restore balance, the Son either had to be reigned in or both of them destroyed. The former was impossible, so the latter was forced to occur. Likewise the Anakin would have been incapable of 'reigning in' Sidious so the only way to restore balance was to destroy the Sith and the Jedi. Effectively reset the dials.

 

Given that, the OP might actually have a point. This is the first time I've ever thought of it like this.

 

Well no, because Lucas was pretty explicit in his words that the Sith were the ones that threw off the balance. Not the Jedi. It doesnt matter whether there is 10,000 Jedi and 1 sith. That 1 sith throws off the balance.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Girdeux

Well no, because Lucas was pretty explicit in his words that the Sith were the ones that threw off the balance. Not the Jedi. It doesnt matter whether there is 10,000 Jedi and 1 sith. That 1 sith throws off the balance.

That doesn't contradict what I'm saying. The Son threw of the planet by growing in power, as did the Sith.

 

What I'm saying is is that if Anakin had killed the Son and the Son alone, the balance would have shifted to the light and the planet would have undone itself. Likewise if the Sith had simply been destroyed, the balance would have shifted in the other direction. The only option was the wipe out both the Sith and the Jedi are reset the balance. Just like both the Son and the Daughter were killed.

 

So yes, the Sith were responsible, but destroying them would only have made matters worse. The Jedi had to go too.

That doesn't contradict what I'm saying. The Son threw of the planet by growing in power, as did the Sith.

 

What I'm saying is is that if Anakin had killed the Son and the Son alone, the balance would have shifted to the light and the planet would have undone itself. Likewise if the Sith had simply been destroyed, the balance would have shifted in the other direction. The only option was the wipe out both the Sith and the Jedi are reset the balance. Just like both the Son and the Daughter were killed.

 

So yes, the Sith were responsible, but destroying them would only have made matters worse. The Jedi had to go too.

 

No they didnt. The jedi dont corrupt the balance at all. What people seem to think is the balance is an equal amount of dark side users and light side users, which is totally wrong. The balance is the light side of the force. The sith corrupt that balance. It doesnt matter what the clone wars cartoon says. Lucas>Anything

 

“The sad thing is Padme says there is still good in him and Luke says in ROTJ there is good in you. Its recurring. There is good in him. And that will bring balance to the force. He needs to get rid of the Sith and bring balance to the force” - GL

 

"Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."

 

"Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gonn are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor." Lucas

 

In “The Phantom Menace” one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of the Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that the Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand, a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces”

Edited July 16, 2013 by Girdeux

No they didnt. The jedi dont corrupt the balance at all. What people seem to think is the balance is an equal amount of dark side users and light side users, which is totally wrong. The balance is the light side of the force. The sith corrupt that balance. It doesnt matter what the clone wars cartoon says. Lucas>Anything

 

“The sad thing is Padme says there is still good in him and Luke says in ROTJ there is good in you. Its recurring. There is good in him. And that will bring balance to the force. He needs to get rid of the Sith and bring balance to the force” - GL

 

"Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."

 

"Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gonn are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor." Lucas

 

In “The Phantom Menace” one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of the Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that the Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand, a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces”

 

The Clone Wars cartoon you refer to is produced by George Lucas. And these quotes you make reference to only say that destroying the Sith will restore balance, which at that point is the case, just like after the death of the Daughter the Son had to die to restore balance. It also says the dark side is evil, which is also true. But you cannot have good without evil. But George Lucas can explain it better than I can:

 

"The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil."

 

-George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999

 

"In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything."

 

-George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002

 

"The idea of positive and negative, that there are two sides to an entity, a push and a pull, a yin and a yang, and the struggle between the two sides are issues of nature that I wanted to include in the film."

 

-George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays

 

"The Force has two sides. It is not a malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope."

 

-George Lucas, Times Magazine, 1980

 

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in 'Star Wars.'"

 

-George Lucas, Times Magazine, 2002

 

"The Light and Dark Side manifest themselves in the way they are used; they are simply different interpretations of a single aspect of nature, and they exist in balance with themselves and the universe. Just as with any aspect of life and death, both the Dark Side and the Light Side are intertwined with each other, are necessary to each other and form a cosmic balance."

 

-The Dark Empire Sourcebook

 

And from the recent Mortis arc:

 

"It is only here that I can control them. A family in balance. The light and the dark. Day with night. Destruction, replaced by creation...Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it."

 

The Father, who keeps control over the Daughter and the Son i.e. maintains balance, seeks the Chosen One to replace him. Proving the Chosen One would restore balance to the Force through balancing the light with the dark, not destroying the dark side.

 

This is a common misconception based on one quote were Lucas says the Force is a 'cancer', however clearly Lucas no longer holds this to be true, given the Mortis episodes which Lucas himself had a heavy hand in creating i.e. it was his idea. This instead is the belief held by the Jedi, that restoring balance involves destroying the dark side entirely.

 

But according to Wookieepedia:

 

George Lucas himself has stated that Anakin is the Chosen One and that the prophecy is true, although it had been misinterpreted by the entire Jedi Order.[12][13]

 

The idea that balance in the Force is simply the light side and that the dark side is a cancer has since been overridden. Not that that makes any sense as the very word 'balance' implies equality between light and dark, destruction and chaos, light and shadow. One cannot exist without the other.

No they didnt. The jedi dont corrupt the balance at all. What people seem to think is the balance is an equal amount of dark side users and light side users, which is totally wrong. The balance is the light side of the force. The sith corrupt that balance. It doesnt matter what the clone wars cartoon says. Lucas>Anything

 

“The sad thing is Padme says there is still good in him and Luke says in ROTJ there is good in you. Its recurring. There is good in him. And that will bring balance to the force. He needs to get rid of the Sith and bring balance to the force” - GL

 

"Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."

 

"Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gonn are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor." Lucas

 

In “The Phantom Menace” one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of the Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that the Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand, a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces”

 

 

This has been disputed by several direct quotes from GL, you idiot.

 

it was necessary for the chosen one to destroy both the jedi and the sith, this is how balance was restored, and it's only after this was completed at the end of 6 that the force was in balance. It had been out of balance since the prophecy was made.

This has been disputed by several direct quotes from GL, you idiot.

 

it was necessary for the chosen one to destroy both the jedi and the sith, this is how balance was restored, and it's only after this was completed at the end of 6 that the force was in balance. It had been out of balance since the prophecy was made.

 

What you said makes no sense what so ever. You realize that Luke is a jedi yes? if the balance were to be "restored" then Vader wouldve had to kill Luke.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Girdeux

 

The Clone Wars cartoon you refer to is produced by George Lucas. And these quotes you make reference to only say that destroying the Sith will restore balance, which at that point is the case, just like after the death of the Daughter the Son had to die to restore balance. It also says the dark side is evil, which is also true. But you cannot have good without evil. But George Lucas can explain it better than I can:

 

"The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil."

 

-George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999

 

"In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything."

 

-George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002

 

"The idea of positive and negative, that there are two sides to an entity, a push and a pull, a yin and a yang, and the struggle between the two sides are issues of nature that I wanted to include in the film."

 

-George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays

 

"The Force has two sides. It is not a malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope."

 

-George Lucas, Times Magazine, 1980

 

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in 'Star Wars.'"

 

-George Lucas, Times Magazine, 2002

 

"The Light and Dark Side manifest themselves in the way they are used; they are simply different interpretations of a single aspect of nature, and they exist in balance with themselves and the universe. Just as with any aspect of life and death, both the Dark Side and the Light Side are intertwined with each other, are necessary to each other and form a cosmic balance."

 

-The Dark Empire Sourcebook

 

And from the recent Mortis arc:

 

"It is only here that I can control them. A family in balance. The light and the dark. Day with night. Destruction, replaced by creation...Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it."

 

The Father, who keeps control over the Daughter and the Son i.e. maintains balance, seeks the Chosen One to replace him. Proving the Chosen One would restore balance to the Force through balancing the light with the dark, not destroying the dark side.

 

This is a common misconception based on one quote were Lucas says the Force is a 'cancer', however clearly Lucas no longer holds this to be true, given the Mortis episodes which Lucas himself had a heavy hand in creating i.e. it was his idea. This instead is the belief held by the Jedi, that restoring balance involves destroying the dark side entirely.

 

But according to Wookieepedia:

 

George Lucas himself has stated that Anakin is the Chosen One and that the prophecy is true, although it had been misinterpreted by the entire Jedi Order.[12][13]

 

The idea that balance in the Force is simply the light side and that the dark side is a cancer has since been overridden. Not that that makes any sense as the very word 'balance' implies equality between light and dark, destruction and chaos, light and shadow. One cannot exist without the other.

 

The dark side and light side always exists, the force is impossible to destroy. The Sith need to be destroyed because of the way they use the dark side, which throws out the balance.