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"New" Strike Fighter Balance


Xarko's Avatar


Xarko
11.10.2019 , 03:40 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Erurainon View Post
It is not an exploit. This mechanic has been in the game since patch 5.5. Which was just over 2 years ago.

Furthermore, we asked Musco to pass on messages to the devs before posting the piledriver build, about 4 months after the patch.

-Audson
It's very clearly an exploit. Don't even try it.

Erurainon's Avatar


Erurainon
11.10.2019 , 04:07 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Xarko View Post
It's very clearly an exploit. Don't even try it.
Prior to patch 5.5 you had to release your mouse click and then click again if you swapped lasers on the T1 Strike. This was a HUGE weakness to the T1 Strike. Back in 2015 there was an entire tread started by a dev titled "Let's Talk about Strike Fighters" in which the weapon swap system ability was discussed as being useless on the T1 Strike.

There is a lot information in the 1,012 posts about the T1 Strike weakness. Here is a very good one by Nemarus: http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...9&postcount=25

In addition, of all the weapon swaps on ships (Gunships and T2 Strike) the T1 Strike is the only ship to have the re-click mechanic removed.

-Audson

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
11.10.2019 , 09:33 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Xarko View Post
It's very clearly an exploit. Don't even try it.
Its no more an exploit than Clipping the third ability into the ferocity window for carnage was an exploit. It was a technique of advanced play, and the changes to Ferocity were made to make it easier for newer carnage players, not because it was an exploit. The evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of the developers knowing about this and not considering it an exploit.

Also, it happens to be easily countered by:
1. EMP Field
2. EMP Missile
3. Remote Slicing

And anything else I've forgotten that disables system abilities.

Also, you don't have to worry about the Strike that you disable from outside piledriving range, 8km (Ion followed by slug from GS).

Also, piledriving isn't so great on the node, since HLC have crap for a firing arc and QLC isn't much better, so the Sting/FF still have advantage there.
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Wildtee's Avatar


Wildtee
11.11.2019 , 12:22 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Xarko View Post
It's very clearly an exploit. Don't even try it.
Pretty sure that clearing it with the devs 2 years ago makes it not an exploit, but maybe that's just logic.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
11.11.2019 , 01:10 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Linuxizer View Post
The NovaDive / Blackbolt with EMP Field and LLC is pretty useful in Domination. Can you expand on how the Spearpoint / Bloodmark is very useful in deathmatch?

I would say overall the Strikes are the best ships. However, a lot of players like to fly Strikes anyway. Even if there is another patch to rebalance the ships, we will probably still see most players flying Strikes in most matches. I wish more players would fly the other ships because it gets a bit repetitive sometimes fighting an entire team of Strikes.
Spearpoint / Bloodmark in Deathmatch, can be a great support ship. Repair drones in Death match are really really good right now, so both ships that can take them are worth it just for that especially in 12 v 12 matches. However what the Spearpoint / Bloodmark offers over it's Bomber counter part is both Tensor Fields for ships that want even more mobility like Pile drivers and Slicers and also EMP missile makes for a great setup maker, so you just roll around constantly taking away missile breaks from enemies or nuking Bomber drone fields. Basically your job is to Heal your team and assist your high killing ships, it's a pure support role. In difficult matches you'll see this ship actually have very little stats on the end scoreboard, however it's contributing a lot.


I'd also agree that the Strike ship chassis is overall the best currently, however the other ship types are far more specialized, which means they still have plenty of jobs they are superior at compared to Strikes.
DrakolichDrakolích
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Xarko's Avatar


Xarko
11.11.2019 , 07:13 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Wildtee View Post
Pretty sure that clearing it with the devs 2 years ago makes it not an exploit, but maybe that's just logic.
Same devs who made the game famous for still having bugs from beta and the same devs who rather shrug'd and said things are ok than fixing it on multiple occasions already? I guess that actually does make sense, you got me there.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
11.11.2019 , 07:29 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Xarko View Post
Same devs who made the game famous for still having bugs from beta and the same devs who rather shrug'd and said things are ok than fixing it on multiple occasions already? I guess that actually does make sense, you got me there.
Here's the thing it's clearly not an exploit because when things have been an exploit they've fixed them very quickly.

Just to quote a few examples, there used to be a pipe in Lost Shipyards Deathmatch you could go into that let you shoot out but blocked all shots that came in, giving you a huge unfair advantage. Once this was reported to them, it was fixed right away.

The other huge one was when a group of players on the EU servers managed to figure out how to get inside the Satellites so that they could never be attacked and you could never kill them. They were banned within days of using this exploit multiples times and it was also quickly fixed.

So to say that it's an exploit after them having literal years of time with the information is just silly.


As others have said it is the same technique used on other ships.

The big example being the Quick switch while playing Gunship. Railguns have a cooldown after you fire them before you can begin charging again, so to get around this we will start by full charging an Ion Railgun and after fired swap to Slug and immediately begin charging it bypassing the 2 second cooldown you're supposed to have after firing an Ion Railgun. The exact same mecanic is being used with the Rycer/Starguard it's just actually much harder to use, because if the target moves at all, landing lasers with different flight speeds becomes very difficult since your reticule jumps all over the place.
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Stellarcrusade's Avatar


Stellarcrusade
11.12.2019 , 10:24 AM | #18
The way I see it, prior to the current build the flashy was absolute BS (if used by mildly experienced pilot), gunship was very good, and 2 bomber builds were viable.

The current build gave the dog-fighters an easy lateral move into various BS fighter builds. Seemed silly to me to feature a dog-fighter, to a new patch where it features a dog-fighter, but so be it. One issue is that by switching the feature from scout to fighter, really pushes the bomber down in viability. The important bomber builds have no missile breaker, and EMPs are pretty common now so you cannot even hit things with your mines. Really 6 enemy ships that are faster and more manuverable than you are trying to get missile locks on you while you frantically try to LOS them and have little cover from mines. The fighter is the anti-bomber.

So now, various fighter builds - BS, Gunship build still viable, Bombers - very important to team, but too weak to play - not viable.

That being said, a few veteran bomber pilots have adapted and make the best of a bad situation and do ok, and most have simply switched to flying fighters as I do. The build can be fun, so the above problems may have made GSF bad in some ways, there still is room for fun.

As for the perfectly legal laser switching that a fighter build can do, that really is BS and should be not used and should be "fixed" by game devs. I truely think its considered legal simply because they have no will or ability to fix it, so you cannot punish people for using it. Really doubt the featured ship type should also do enormous burst damage with lasers. Adept players can still lead the war in kills without ever using this mechanic.

I worry a little about new players, many start with bombers while they perfect use of lasers/aiming it is nice to be able to drop a few mines out and actually do a little damage. They come in, get insta-killed by a mechanic they do not understand, and move on to other games.

So I like the build, if they eliminated that "mechanic", gave bombers some sort of breaker which allowed them to remain still or deflect or reflect the torp, and some sort of global cooldown on how many EMPS can hit your little mines over a time period, I think it would be much improved. Bringing a third class back into viability can only add to the game.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
11.12.2019 , 03:59 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade View Post
Really doubt the featured ship type should also do enormous burst damage with lasers.
The Rycer/Starguard is literally all about blasters. Its in the flavor text.
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Linuxizer's Avatar


Linuxizer
11.13.2019 , 07:22 AM | #20
The T1F (Rycer / Star Guard) is very strong, with or without the quick-switching "Piledriver" mechanic. I'm still mostly using the old Ion Cannon + HLC combo, as I haven't had enough practice with the Piledriver. It is plenty powerful enough already. I did some calculations (hopefully correctly) to compare the two builds.

Build 1
- Ion Cannon (Drain Engine, Drain Weapon)
- Heavy Laser Cannon (Improved Tracking, Shield Piercing)
- Range Capacitor
- Ion-only against shields, switch to HLC-only against bare hull

Build 2
- Heavy Laser Cannon (Improved Tracking, Shield Piercing)
- Quad Laser Cannon (Reduced Power, Increased Hull Damage)
- Range Capacitor
- quick-switching

Maximum range
- Ion = 6325m
- QLC = 6613m
- HLC = 8596m

Let's assume our target is a gunship at 6000m, dead center, it has 23% evasion, and we don't have Wingman. The damage produced by each build is as follows. For the quick-switching, I'm simply adding HLC + QLC.

Scenario 1: Gunship with shields, 6000m
Ion = 1002 dps(shield)
HLC = 558 dps(shield) + 106 dps(hull due to shield-piercing)
QLC = 509 dps(shield) + 32 dps(hull)
HLC + QLC = 1067 dps(shield) + 138 dps(hull)

Scenario 2: Gunship without shields, 6000m
Ion = 125 dps(hull)
HLC = 709 dps(hull)
QLC = 635 dps(hull)
HLC + QLC = 1344 dps(hull)

The results:
- Compared to Ion-only against shielded target, Piledriver produces 20% more overall damage
- Compared to HLC-only against non-shielded target, Piledriver produces 90% more hull damage

The Piledriver is strong, but the old Ion + HLC combo can still do a lot of damage, especially when the target has shields which is most of the time. Piledriver also has a much higher power cost (Ion = 16.6, HLC = 17.4, QLC = 20.7, HLC + QLC = 38.1) and higher tracking penalty. If your quick-switching technique is not perfect, you will deal less than exactly HLC + QLC damage. The quick-switching mechanic really is not game-breaking or anything on its own. The entire Rycer / Star Guard is strong.
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