You're reading it wrong. It's not an absorb shield. It's an explicit increase to your Shield Absorb percentage, just like Kinetic Ward is an explicit increase to your Shield Chance. The only difference is that KW is a static increase (it's 15/20% for all 8 charges) and the increase from Kinetic Bulwark is equal to the number of stacks present (0% when you have 8 stacks of KW, 4% when you only have 4 left, etc.).

Ok.. Could you be so kind to explain me the mechanics on the simple example?

ability descr:

Consuming a charge of Kinetic Ward increases shield absorption by 1%.

Stacks up to 8 times. This effect lasts for 20 seconds or until Kinetic Ward is reactivated.

Let say our Absorption is 50%

Lets simplify the situation and presume the ideal situation when every attack is shielded

1. Kinetic Ward: 8 charges.

attack: 3000 hitpoints, Kinetic Bulwark proc - +1% to Absorption = 50+1=(51%). Damage shielded = 3000*(51%)=1530

2. Kinetic Ward: 7 charges.

attack: 3000 hitpoints, Kinetic Bulwark proc - +1% to Absorption = 50+1+1=(52%). Damage shielded = 3000*(52%)=1560

3. Kinetic Ward: 6 charges.

attack: 3000 hitpoints, Kinetic Bulwark proc - +1% to Absorption = 50+2+1=(53%). Damage shielded = 3000*(53%)=1590

4. Kinetic Ward: 5 charges.

attack: 3000 hitpoints, Kinetic Bulwark proc - +1% to Absorption = 50+3+1=(54%). Damage shielded = 3000*(54%)=1620

5. Kinetic Ward: 4 charges.

attack: 3000 hitpoints, Kinetic Bulwark proc - +1% to Absorption = 50+4+1=(55%). Damage shielded = 3000*(55%)=1650

6. Kinetic Ward: 3 charges.

attack: 3000 hitpoints, Kinetic Bulwark proc - +1% to Absorption = 50+5+1=(56%). Damage shielded = 3000*(56%)=1680

7. Kinetic Ward: 2 charges.

attack: 3000 hitpoints, Kinetic Bulwark proc - +1% to Absorption = 50+6+1=(57%). Damage shielded = 3000*(57%)=1710

8. Kinetic Ward: 1 charge.

attack: 3000 hitpoints, Kinetic Bulwark proc - +1% to Absorption = 50+7+1=(58%). Damage shielded = 3000*(58%)=1740

Is it work this way? 1080 additional shielded damage out of 24000 hit points?

It's pretty obvious, as I see it, that this was implemented primary to take care of the concerns amongst Shadow tanks that high attack/sec scenarios rendered us substantially squishier compared to the other tanks. Kinetic Bulwark, while it doesn't completely solve it, at least assuages that a bit by having KW provide something as the charges are lost.

Anyway it is not a great substitution to the loss of the [stasis]`s 20% armor increase....

Force speed, phase walk, force wave, force breach, whirling blow.

 

Yes they have no 30 m abilities, but such a situation is worthy of popping force of will if required.

 

Taking up FiB as things stand costs you the burst from SS. They've killed one hybrid off as a DPS threat, but created a monster with the infil changes.

Had some big long thing typed out about how it affects you when node guarding, but then I found out Phase Walk is not on the GCD, so it might be viable to not have FiB node guarding. I still believe it's essential in stopping that first enemy cap though.

Had some big long thing typed out about how it affects you when node guarding, but then I found out Phase Walk is not on the GCD, so it might be viable to not have FiB node guarding. I still believe it's essential in stopping that first enemy cap though.

With the lower CD on Force Speed, you'll be able to use it twice before getting to the enemy node, which will let you get there and interrupt them within 10m.

I've been trying and trying to copy my shadow over to see this all first hand, but apparently I'm not going to be able to for some reason. So just to clarify what I'm reading: crit no longer applies, but accuracy instead? So does this mean the millions of credits I just spent on 27 mods are wasted? And is infil tree nerfed as I was first hearing? Currently I am a kinetic/balance hybrid (im enjoying being a little less squishy, but I miss the higher damage my infil spec gave me). Apparently this spec is gone, but I can find a new spec, even if the dps is harder to sustain than other classes.

I swear, I feel like I'm back in swg reading notes on the upcoming CU all over again.

I've been trying and trying to copy my shadow over to see this all first hand, but apparently I'm not going to be able to for some reason. So just to clarify what I'm reading: crit no longer applies, but accuracy instead? So does this mean the millions of credits I just spent on 27 mods are wasted? And is infil tree nerfed as I was first hearing? Currently I am a kinetic/balance hybrid (im enjoying being a little less squishy, but I miss the higher damage my infil spec gave me). Apparently this spec is gone, but I can find a new spec, even if the dps is harder to sustain than other classes.

 

I swear, I feel like I'm back in swg reading notes on the upcoming CU all over again.

can't really say if it's a nerf or not i didn't test out the new spec b4 i hit 55 on the PTS with my assassin but fom what i read it's better sustained dps not as much burst now. one thing i did notice is it seems we want closer to 100% accuracy now for pve. I know some people were fine with 97- 98% ish accuracy but i tested dps with the stock mods in the new pve gear that put me at 98% acc w/o legacy buff and my force shock and discharge would resist every once in awhile. So i'm not sure if it's a bug or intended but seems like force ablities can miss/resist now

Anyway it is not a great substitution to the loss of the [stasis]`s 20% armor increase....

Kinetic Bulwark, by itself, isn't supposed to be a substitute for the lost armor. The totality of the changes (including the shield changes, which benefit shadows more than the other tanks) are supposed to make up for it.

From the PTS patch notes...

 

(under Items and Economy).

Yeah, I saw the first part, but it didn't occur to me that they'd changed how shields worked overall. Thanks for the clarification, Kit!

So, I'm assuming now that Kinetic Ward/Bulwark are DEFINITELY worth taking, and have been practicing with Kinetic Ward again on live.

And one more thing, Kitru. I know everyone is worried about losing Force in Balance for burst/range, but I'm wondering if that will be so bad. With Shadow Wrap we're going to be relying on Shadow Strike a LOT more often and it seems to hit harder than FiB anyway, even though it is only single target.

So, do you think full Kinetic Combat will still be the best bet for 1v1 combat? We're getting buffs to survivability and - apparently - a buff to single target damage.

Am I seeing this correctly? Again, thanks for your time, friend!

I am concerned about debuffing Force Breach. Ok, no cooldown, but now we need to build up the Shadow Technique? this will make things last way longer... and we're supposed to deal damage... not wait for dealing it

The stacks build fast. Upheaval is in the bottom row of the infil tree now. Along with shadow technique procs, project builds stacks and bypasses the 4.5 second limitation.

I havent tested PvP, but the changes to infil are a PVE buff for sure.

The stacks build fast. Upheaval is in the bottom row of the infil tree now. Along with shadow technique procs, project builds stacks and bypasses the 4.5 second limitation.

 

I havent tested PvP, but the changes to infil are a PVE buff for sure.

Shadow technique now also hits like a truck; shadow strike hits harder and now builds circling shadows.

Am I seeing this correctly? Again, thanks for your time, friend!

PvP doesn't really hold much interest to me so I've only really been paying attention to the PvE changes (though I keep the PvP stuff in mind). I know the popular PvP specs and strats so I keep abreast of them but, beyond that, I don't really care much for it.

However, the changes are not going to make it impossible to get Force in Balance as a hybrid tank. This pretty much captures the feel of the current 27/1/13 hybrid. If you're willing to sacrifice Spinning Kick and Shadow Strike from the front (which isn't entirely necessary in PvP), you can instead go with this. It's *really* hard to say that the hybrid specs are going to die in PvP, mainly because the stuff that they did well (high survivability with high damage and utility) are always going to be present unless the devs completely tear apart the lower tiers.

Also, as to Kinetic Bulwark, it should be mentioned that the stacking Absorb buffs stay until you cast Kinetic Ward again. As such, it's not just 8 attacks you're getting the benefit for.

I haven't tested this spec out too much yet, but assuming shadows will still be primary node guarders (been hearing that snipers might fill that role well too) I think this spec brings a lot to the table.

 

23/23/0

 

- Combat Technique with a shield offhand

- DPS gear

- We still get all the good stuff from the Kinetic tree, minus out of stealth spinning kick and 20% more armor.

- Battle Readiness now provides 25% damage reduction. This along with Blackout from the infiltration tree will help keep us for up longer while stalling.

- Lower CD on Force Speed will help in delaying the other team in Civil War.

- Upheaval, along with the Project talents from the Kinetic tree still gives us some nice Projects.

- Harder hitting and more frequent Shadow Strikes

- Low Slash replaces Spinning Kick. This has its pros and cons. Lower CD on Low Slash, keeps them incapacitated longer but it breaks on damage where Spinning Kick does not.

- Subduing Technique gives us 100% uptime on Force Slow

- Fade gives us more damage reduction (AOE) and a shorter CD on Blackout and Force Cloak

 

So unlike our current hybrid (23/1/17) we miss insta-force lift and FiB. Yeah that does suck, but we do gain some other nice utility from the Infiltration tree. Where FiB came in big was stopping caps around a node from range. To make up for this I think we'll just have to be smart in how we use Phase Walk. Nothing really makes up for no longer having insta-Force Lift, we just have to live without it now.

 

Like I said, I haven't played it much (only a few warzones) but I'm going to continue testing, along with other specs that people have been posting.

Hmm, I think we're getting close to what would be the new powerful kinetic hybrid spec. Between the 23/18/5 I posted and the 23/23/0 you posted I propose this compromise....23/21/2

With 23/21/2, you get to keep Fade, which indeed is a very powerful defensive talent. However, I feel Psychokinesis is too valuable for Force Management to give up. With this, you could keep Low Slash, Fade, and Blackout/Shadow's Respite, while also having better Force Management on your Particle Acceleration Projects/Double Strikes thanks to Psychokinesis.

How about 25/0/21

There are many problems with this spec. Whichever technique you decide to go in, you will have wasted talents. If you go into combat technique with this spec, then your entire second tier in the balance tier serves no purpose. Force Strike and Force Suppression would also be pointless. If you used Force Technique in this spec, you would not get your Particle Acceleration procs so that would be pointless.

What about this instead

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=022302201120023002100000000000000322030021112030001000000000000000020000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

^^^ The new survivability hybrid DPS.

What about this instead

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=022302201120023002100000000000000322030021112030001000000000000000020000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

^^^ The new survivability hybrid DPS.

That's pretty much the same thing I posted 2 posts above you with very minor differences . I suppose we are in agreement then that 23/21/2 is the way to go.

That's pretty much the same thing I posted 2 posts above you with very minor differences . I suppose we are in agreement then that 23/21/2 is the way to go.

I know, I saw your build and after having done some tinkering of my own earlier with something similar I thought I would show you how to get a little more out of it.

Low slash replaces spinning kick, which is a plus for stalling against all classes (particularly shadows/sins), SS hits harder than before, you get the cost reduction, an absolute load of active and passive mitigation, and your combat technique procs more often.

I honestly think any spec which uses endurance talents as they stand needs to make an excellent case for them. Expertise is still hopeless despite them doubling the damage. It needs to be double again if they want to be serious about it IMO.

I know, I saw your build and after having done some tinkering of my own earlier with something similar I thought I would show you how to get a little more out of it.

 

Low slash replaces spinning kick, which is a plus for stalling against all classes (particularly shadows/sins), SS hits harder than before, you get the cost reduction, an absolute load of active and passive mitigation, and your combat technique procs more often.

 

I honestly think any spec which uses endurance talents as they stand needs to make an excellent case for them. Expertise is still hopeless despite them doubling the damage. It needs to be double again if they want to be serious about it IMO.

Hmm, I had low slash as a part of mine, I posted it and then realized I had forgotten to put the talent in it so I went back and fixed it a couple minutes later. So our only difference is basically you put your 2 points from Kinetic into Rapid Recovery and I put mine into Mental Fortitude. It's basically the same spec at this point, I guess those 2 points just came down to our personal preferences . Either way, I look forward to seeing this spec in action.

So, you think abandoning FiB even though it now hits 5 targets is a good idea?

That actually remains to be seen, but the fact that infilitration tactics has been moved up to the fourth tier, and the addition of Phase Walk is what is making FiB a bit less desirable. I was simply saying your spec has problems.

This is my kinetic hybrid spec that includes FiB. 27/5/14

I'm not saying this spec is the end all be all best kinetic FiB hybrid spec. However, if you are going to be running in combat technique, you want to avoid taking talents that boost your DoTs because you won't have DoTs in combat technique.

I see...well, in that spec, personally, I would move 2 from mental fortitude to Kinetic Bulwark for the increased absorption...8% absorption is nothing to sneeze at...other than that, I agree with your choices...

Basically, the spec I put together would be able to stance switch in a pinch and reap the full benefits of FiB....but your spec is more geared for solely playing in Combat stance.

I see where you'd have advantages with Harnessed shadows...

I see...well, in that spec, personally, I would move 2 from mental fortitude to Kinetic Bulwark for the increased absorption...8% absorption is nothing to sneeze at...other than that, I agree with your choices...

With shields actually working in PvP when the new update comes you may be right about that. Only time and testing will tell.

Hmm, I think we're getting close to what would be the new powerful kinetic hybrid spec. Between the 23/18/5 I posted and the 23/23/0 you posted I propose this compromise....23/21/2

 

With 23/21/2, you get to keep Fade, which indeed is a very powerful defensive talent. However, I feel Psychokinesis is too valuable for Force Management to give up. With this, you could keep Low Slash, Fade, and Blackout/Shadow's Respite, while also having better Force Management on your Particle Acceleration Projects/Double Strikes thanks to Psychokinesis.

Thats a good point Zab, those points might indeed be better spent in Psychokinesis for the reasons you stated and also because on paper the force slow talent seems good, but in actual game-play I think it's a little unrealistic to be always keeping your targets slowed 100% of the time.