SwtorThrill Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) With the recent posts by Chris stating they are paying a bit more attention to PvP in upcoming patches, it's not too late to state our displeasure of solo match making & the ELO rating system. Let's make a request for change to make solo experience better. Currently, it's a system that is too punishing for losses, relying too much on factors outside of your control such as "lucky" match making. When I say lucky match making, I do not mean who gets on the team that can carry more like who does not get the thrower, troll, or the completely clueless. A idea to put some control back into the player is this... Make a win or loss a base amount. My suggestion is 10 points for a win and 15 points for a loss. With this said, by earning medals, you can add or subtract to the final score. If you earned 4 medals, you add 1 pt to your win or subtract 1 from the loss. If you earn 8 medals you add 4 points to the win and subtract 4 points from the loss. If you earn 14 medals you add 5 points to the win, it should not be possible to gain 14 medals in a loss. So the highest you can earn is 15 points from a win and the least you can lose from a loss is 11 points. Obviously the medal system has to be reworked for rank. New medals have to be created such as survivor medal. This is a medal you get for lasting longer than 2 minutes, something like that. Also, tier ranges will have to increase a bit, but rank season is long. I feel something like the above system will work better as it puts more control over your rating. It clearly rewards skill and makes losses easier to take by removing the one step forward two steps back process. It might even contribute to less toxicity. Can we talk about this seriously and get the attention of Chris? Who is happy with the way things are? Anyone have any other ideas? Can something like the above work or too complicated? Edited August 11, 2020 by SwtorThrill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 The medal system would need an overhaul too. Which isn’t a bad idea. I’ve been advocating for that for 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingDeathII Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 ELO is practically worthless in a multi player game because it doesnt matter how good you are, if the other 3 on your team are trash, you will lose. Likewise if you are bad but the other 3 on your team are really good, you will win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AocaVII Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) ELO is practically worthless in a multi player game because it doesn't matter how good you are, if the other 3 on your team are trash, you will lose. Likewise if you are bad but the other 3 on your team are really good, you will win. Yea, I can heal >13k hps , cc the other healer, and still not win but it's been like this for years, also playing dps toons; same deal. Unless you track wintraders, wintrade, or have a friends list full of bad players/bots who q and/or want to sit on a game for 8-10 hours, you're probably not going to get a good rating. Only other scenario would be being extremely lucky lol. It's a joke. I play ranked because it's harder to heal than regs; to heal regs is very easy anyone can really do it, nothing really special about high heals in regs. It's hard for me to really play hard to the best of my ability when something is very easy. I guess it's a defect of character. I'm bad at everything anyways so what does it matter lol Edited August 11, 2020 by AocaVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Yea, I can heal >13k hps , cc the other healer, and still not win but it's been like this for years, also playing dps toons; same deal. Unless you track wintraders, wintrade, or have a friends list full of bad players/bots who q and/or want to sit on a game for 8-10 hours, you're probably not going to get a good rating. Only other scenario would be being extremely lucky lol. It's a joke. I play ranked because it's harder to heal than regs; to heal regs is very easy anyone can really do it, nothing really special about high heals in regs. It's hard for me to really play hard to the best of my ability when something is very easy. I guess it's a defect of character. I'm bad at everything anyways so what does it matter lol That's because ELO was never designed to be used in a group setting. It was designed for chess, a 1v1 situation. It can sort of work in teams as long as the team is the same people every time, but any group content that involves the randomness of solo players grouping up is gonna be a problem. Its one of the many reasons why I don't think solo ranked should even exist. Should be group ranked only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AocaVII Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) That's because ELO was never designed to be used in a group setting. It was designed for chess, a 1v1 situation. It can sort of work in teams as long as the team is the same people every time, but any group content that involves the randomness of solo players grouping up is gonna be a problem. Its one of the many reasons why I don't think solo ranked should even exist. Should be group ranked only. I agree but the skill cap for group ranked is very high 99% of players can't do it; that's most of the reason 8v8 ranked was removed. Entire teams where dead in about 1-2 mins or less. Edited August 11, 2020 by AocaVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I agree but the skill cap for group ranked is very high 99% of players can't do it; that's most of the reason 8v8 ranked was removed. Entire teams where dead in about 1-2 mins or less. 8v8 ranked was removed because they gave up on it before actually trying to make it work. The devs and their brilliant "wisdom" thought arenas were a better idea despite the fact that the WoW devs openly admitted that adding arenas to WoW was the biggest mistake they ever made for pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AocaVII Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 8v8 ranked was removed because they gave up on it before actually trying to make it work. The devs and their brilliant "wisdom" thought arenas were a better idea despite the fact that the WoW devs openly admitted that adding arenas to WoW was the biggest mistake they ever made for pvp. Well here, I'd have to disagree. The devs saw the metrics on TTK of actual full teams of 8 players, and concluded that it's not feasible. Also, I seen the same deal happen in SWGS and a few other PVP games but they never removed it. That's when the invention of organized pvp where u play your friends started because no one else could reach the skill cap lol Edited August 11, 2020 by AocaVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Well here, I'd have to disagree. The devs saw the metrics on TTK of actual full teams of 8 players, and concluded that it's not feasible. Also, I seen the same deal happen in SWGS but they never removed it. That's when the invention of organized pvp where u play your friends started because no one else could reach the skill cap lol I don't think you were around during 8v8 ranked, because that really wasn't a thing. 8v8 ranked matches usually went on for the full 20 minutes. They weren't one sided very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AocaVII Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) I don't think you were around during 8v8 ranked, because that really wasn't a thing. 8v8 ranked matches usually went on for the full 20 minutes. They weren't one sided very often. Well there were many, many servers. I played since launch for the full duration of Ranked 8v8s. We happened to have some of the best players and biggest server; FATMAN or the remnants of it, where the best players aka Seal Team Sith and others played. The matches that went on for 20 mins were on other servers and were usually hypergate or other wzs where they split the groups up into fours on each node so yes those may have lasted longer or the player quality wasn't as good. Why do you think in regs you can only q 4 players in a group? LOL I will spell it out: In the instance of 8 players being allowed to group the other team would die in 1-2 mins lmao Edited August 11, 2020 by AocaVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I mean i would hope there's a difference between 8 grouped players facing 8 pugs and 8 grouped players facing 8 grouped players but what do i know since i wasn't around for 8v8 ranked.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) Well there were many, many servers. I played since launch for the full duration of Ranked 8v8s. We happened to have some of the best players and biggest server FATMAN or the remnants of it, where the best players aka Seal Team Sith and others played. The matches that went on for 20 mins were on other servers and were usually hypergate or other wzs where they split the groups up into fours on each node so yes those may have lasted longer or the player quality wasn't as good. lol I remember them when they moved to POT5, got their asses handed to them and left the server. I mean i would hope there's a difference between 8 grouped players facing 8 pugs and 8 grouped players facing 8 grouped players but what do i know since i wasn't around for 8v8 ranked.? 8v8 was teams only. There was no solo option. They had tossed around the idea of having teams/pugs mixed kinda like how regs are now, but they backed off that idea and never even attempted a solo only queue. Edited August 11, 2020 by Raansu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 8v8 was teams only. There was no solo option. They had tossed around the idea of having teams/pugs mixed kinda like how regs are now, but they backed off that idea and never even attempted a solo only queue. I know. My comment was geared toward this: Why do you think in regs you can only q 4 players in a group? LOL I will spell it out: In the instance of 8 players being allowed to group the other team would die in 1-2 mins lmao I.e. in regs a full pre-made group should be able to roflstomp basically any 8 randoms. In a situation where its a full pre-made vs a full premade I would hope the situation balanced itself better Edited August 11, 2020 by KendraP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AocaVII Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) I mean i would hope there's a difference between 8 grouped players facing 8 pugs and 8 grouped players facing 8 grouped players but what do i know since i wasn't around for 8v8 ranked.? Yes there is a VERY big difference Kendra Well actually we used to sync q pub vs imp and get 8 v 8 full guilds playing each other; but good ones and those were fun matches. Edited August 11, 2020 by AocaVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Yes there is a VERY big difference Kendra lol Well actually we used to syc q pub vs imp and get 8 v 8 full guilds playing each other; but good ones and those were fun matches. That's regs....we talking about ranked here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AocaVII Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) That's regs....we talking about ranked here. I don't think we're on the same page here about many things . The regs comment was just an example of how fun things were when balanced lol IDK if you were playing the same game I was. I'm not going to debate you LMAO Edited August 11, 2020 by AocaVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) Yes there is a VERY big difference Kendra Well actually we used to sync q pub vs imp and get 8 v 8 full guilds playing each other; but good ones and those were fun matches. Yeah, we did the same. Even when 8 ranked was removed. We would get 4 premades together and queue sync over teamspeak so we’d get get 8v8 premades. I miss those days and also ranked 8v8. Bioware should never have removed it even if it was only a small portion playing it. It would not have hurt anyone to keep it in the game. There were more than enough players back then. And removing it just made people quit the game. Bioware could have added a solo queue like they did with arena. That would have been an interesting experiment. Edited August 11, 2020 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AocaVII Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) Yeah, we did the same. Even when 8 ranked was removed. We would get 4 premades together and queue sync over teamspeak so we’d get get 8v8 premades. I hope it was fun for you! For me, that was probably the best time I ever had playing this game. There were actually rivalries and a huge passion to PVP. PVP regs actually had meaning and relevance for a lot of people. Edited August 11, 2020 by AocaVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I hope it was fun for you! For me, that was probably the best time I ever had playing this game. There were actually rivalries and a huge passion to PVP. We mainly played our sister guilds. But sometimes we would just queue 4 premades from the same faction (during low pop times) and get Imp vs Imp. And yes, they were fun times. I had a very nice social pvp guild that had a range of players from excellent to newbies. Everyone would help each other in the guild to get better. My guild role was to help train tactics and strategy in lowbies and Mids (my specialty has always been objective strategy). Others taut lvl 50+ (when brackets got higher) and others specialised in specific class combat training, We had a very well structured system to help players improve at all levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AocaVII Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) We mainly played our sister guilds. But sometimes we would just queue 4 premades from the same faction (during low pop times) and get Imp vs Imp. And yes, they were fun times. I had a very nice social pvp guild that had a range of players from excellent to newbies. Everyone would help each other in the guild to get better. My guild role was to help train tactics and strategy in lowbies and Mids (my specialty has always been objective strategy). Others taut lvl 50+ (when brackets got higher) and others specialised in specific class combat training, We had a very well structured system to help players improve at all levels. Yea, the aspect of strategies, and helping the guild become stronger was very satisfying while it lasted Trix But then the dark times came....when most of the good players left. So you would have full 8v8 but only one side was a premade, gets boring winning with out batting an eyelash. Edited August 11, 2020 by AocaVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Yea, the aspect of strategies, and helping the guild become stronger was very satisfying while it lasted Trix But then the dark times came....when most of the good players left. So you would have full 8v8 but only one side was a premade, gets boring winning with out batting an eyelash. I don’t disagree. But at least back then we had enough good pug players around that if you were against a full premade, you could still often beat them. Now you pretty much can’t because of how they added a borked up matchmaking system . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Yeah, we did the same. Even when 8 ranked was removed. We would get 4 premades together and queue sync over teamspeak so we’d get get 8v8 premades. I miss those days and also ranked 8v8. Bioware should never have removed it even if it was only a small portion playing it. It would not have hurt anyone to keep it in the game. There were more than enough players back then. And removing it just made people quit the game. Bioware could have added a solo queue like they did with arena. That would have been an interesting experiment. Removing it and adding yolo arenas straight up killed pvp guilds. Back then there were dozens of pvp guilds. Now there's 1 or 2 legit ones and the rest are troll groups with like 5 people in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Removing it and adding yolo arenas straight up killed pvp guilds. Back then there were dozens of pvp guilds. Now there's 1 or 2 legit ones and the rest are troll groups with like 5 people in them. Pretty much. Although one of my pvp guilds hung around till 5,0 was launched and then disbanded. I’m the only one of 50 players still in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AocaVII Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 I don’t disagree. But at least back then we had enough good pug players around that if you were against a full premade, you could still often beat them. Now you pretty much can’t because of how they added a borked up matchmaking system . Yes that was true in some instances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bob- Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 I don't think you were around during 8v8 ranked, because that really wasn't a thing. 8v8 ranked matches usually went on for the full 20 minutes. They weren't one sided very often. There were some ranked teams that could draw out the matches back then. Civil war could have some really long stalemates from what i remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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