http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8256455&postcount=8

 

"How Crafting will work is something we will talk about more down the line"

 

My crafters are afraid, very afraid.

Edited July 3, 2015 by asbalana

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8256455&postcount=8

 

"How Crafting will work is something we will talk about more down the line"

 

My crafters are afraid, very afraid.

 

Actually I am optimistic, because at least crew skills and crafting are on the devs' radar with the development of KotFE.

 

And even if they radically alter the system.../shrug...adapt or perish.

My crafters are afraid, very afraid.

 

Depends on what your goal in crafting is.

 

Believe it or not, people are still crafting for different reasons, not only for in-game money-making ...

I can't see em making any massive changes to crafting, but I could see them decoupling crafting from having companions. which might be good actually. people who for whatever reason don't want to do the class story etc but want to craft are presently screwed under the current system. it's no big deal for 99% of us, but I'm sure there's a small handful of people who feel screwed over

I bloody well hope that they tie crafting to time and skill, as well as both PvE- and PvP-based objectives, especially open-world, whilst binning that insultingly shallow RNG-based ********.

 

Hey, DONTJUDGEMEBRO, one can dream, can't one?

I bloody well hope that they tie crafting to time and skill, as well as both PvE- and PvP-based objectives, especially open-world, whilst binning that insultingly shallow RNG-based ********.

 

Hey, DONTJUDGEMEBRO, one can dream, can't one?

 

It is already tied to time and in place of skill you need endurance.

 

Your PvE and PvP objectives would be just as impacted by RNG as the current system. Specifically the number of other players going after those objectives and how available those objectives are.

 

Sorry, I would rather have an RNG system that other players cannot impact.

 

Not judging, just pointing out that maybe you have not thought your stance through.

Edited July 4, 2015 by psandak

It is already tied to time and in place of skill you need endurance.

 

Your PvE and PvP objectives would be just as impacted by RNG as the current system. Specifically the number of other players going after those objectives and how available those objectives are.

 

Sorry, I would rather have an RNG system that other players cannot impact.

 

Not judging, just pointing out that maybe you have not thought your stance through.

 

Damn, you're right, too...

 

K, give me few hours to let Beer-Barrage proc (long internal cooldown, don'tcha know)...

I can't see em making any massive changes to crafting

 

I wouldn't mind if they did a total overhaul to crafting. This is also not something new to MMO land. Take for example star trek online. It got at least 2 complete overhauls at how crafting was being done.

Comparing with how crafting in STO started, the current way of crafting in there has a complete different way of aquiring schematics, levelling up through the craftingranks, gathering materials and even the type of crafting mats.

 

While it may not be needed to make complete overhaul in SWTOR. KotFE is THE moment to make any changes to crafting. So don't be surprised if it will be different

While it may not be needed to make complete overhaul in SWTOR. KotFE is THE moment to make any changes to crafting. So don't be surprised if it will be different

 

And I stand by what I stated above:

And even if they radically alter the system.../shrug...adapt or perish.

From the comments from the developers in this interview, it sounds like we had all better get ready to adapt.

 

 

(The actual interview is from around 31:44-42:00)

 

He mentions a total core game revamp, including itemization, companions, and a specific mention of crafting. They also confirm that the crafting skill cap is going up, but that's hardly a surprise.

My crafters are afraid, very afraid.

 

Why? Crafting surely can't get any worse than it currently is, can it?

 

For a past year or more, Bioware has handled crafting as nothing more than an afterthought.

 

Im only using crafting to make armorings, mods, enhancements, earpieces, implants, barrels etc for my alts that are in the process of leveling. The issue is, this is easily replaceable by spending daily comms, making crafting a nice break from normal play but ultimately superfluous.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Karkais

For a past year or more, Bioware has handled crafting as nothing more than an afterthought.

Um crafting has been an afterthought since launch. But this is not unusual for an MMO; most MMOs I have played the crafting system is an afterthought.

Crafting was fine until the cartel market came along and added:

 

*color crystals that are automatically the best you can get at level 10

*color crystals that are exclusive to the cartel market and it's packs

*color crystals that were most requested were added to the cartel market instead

*Armor and clothing that is light years more beautiful and awesome

*Nearly every mount that actually looks cool is exclusive to the cartel market. Crafting has only received a few

*weapons that look way better than armstech will ever get

*dyes most requested are largely tied to cartel market

*finally player housing was added and it is mainly split between flashpoint random drops and cartel market packs

 

Let's be real though, they will never change this because it would be a huge money loss for them. But they could add more exclusive items to crafting and perks for picking the skill. Such as stat bonuses, special item modification slots, and temp powers like wow eventually got.

 

They copied wow's new stupid and generic talent tree system so I'm sure the above will happen sooner than later anyway.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Noyjitat

Crafting was fine until the cartel market came along and added:

 

*color crystals that are automatically the best you can get at level 10

*color crystals that are exclusive to the cartel market and it's packs

*color crystals that were most requested were added to the cartel market instead

*Armor and clothing that is light years more beautiful and awesome

*Nearly every mount that actually looks cool is exclusive to the cartel market. Crafting has only received a few

*weapons that look way better than armstech will ever get

*dyes most requested are largely tied to cartel market

*finally player housing was added and it is mainly split between flashpoint random drops and cartel market packs

 

Let's be real though, they will never change this because it would be a huge money loss for them. But they could add more exclusive items to crafting and perks for picking the skill. Such as stat bonuses, special item modification slots, and temp powers like wow eventually got.

 

They copied wow's new stupid and generic talent tree system so I'm sure the above will happen sooner than later anyway.

 

WoW did away with profession bonuses (the stated reason was to make crafting optional instead of players feeling forced to level crafting just to get the bonus), as well as removed the profession requirement from most items (there are a few mounts that still require a specific profession to use).

 

I would like to see them add more vanity and fun items to professions, but I do agree its not likely we'll see much as anything they could add would also be something they could monetize through the CM.

Edited July 8, 2015 by DawnAskham

WoW did away with profession bonuses (the stated reason was to make crafting optional instead of players feeling forced to level crafting just to get the bonus), as well as removed the profession requirement from most items (there are a few mounts that still require a specific profession to use).

 

Not surprised at all. I keep going back to it because it fits: "when everyone is super, no one will be" more specifically when everyone has the same bonus, the bonus loses its meaning.

I could see them doing away with specific companion crafting bonuses (i.e. _2 Crit Slicing, stc) and moving to a generic +2 Crit to gathering/crafting/etc.

 

I could also see them moving away from specific crafting as well, or simplifying it to only include Biochem, Artifice and Cybertech, possibly removing the armor and weapon schematics in lieu of class mission rewarded adaptable/modded gear. Wouldn't be that thrilled about this though.

 

Not sure how a companion-less crafting system would work for gathering. If it is all harvesting nodes, this would bring PvP and PVE RNG into the crafting fold as well. Plus diplomacy and Underworld nodes would need ot be added in game. This would make gather much more difficult unless an RE system on junk loot and looted armor/weapons was added that would deconstruct into multiple material types (to include the blue/purple rare mats.

I am surprised in that I thought this thread would quickly head into oblivion. Instead there have been thoughtful speculation and a number of posts.

 

I am not sure where the devs will go, but for my part I am also not sure that I anticipate radical changes that will amount to an essentially new and different crafting system.

 

The whole thrust of the expansions and renewed EA/BW attention appears to be an attempt to bring the game forward by attracting new players and bringing back old ones and turning both into subs.

 

Although a different topic and substance for discussion, my feeling is that crafting is an essential part of SWTOR. Items that are crafted are in demand; they sell. If they could not be produced via crafting they would either have to be eliminated from the game or an alternative method would have to be introduced to acquire them. That would require significant revamp far beyond changing crafting itself.

 

Credits circulate partly via the GTN and crafters fuel the movement. If one could not spend credits on crafted items, there would be little to spend them on. I do not see sales of CM items or mission drops or comm rewards taking up the slack. Perhaps I am wrong and some bright light at EA feels that everything can be provided by CM purchases and that the sale of CM items on the GTN will take up the slack left by crafted items. That might force more sales of CM stuff with greater revenue to EA, but I cannot see most players accepting that approach. Perhaps they feel that most everything produced by crafting could be provided by comms. To me, that would make credits totally valueless. There wuld be no economy in the game. There would be no real reason to run some content such as dallies.

 

One debate that has gone on for a long time addresses the question of how many people actually craft. Putting the number aside for a moment, any change that diminishes crafting will have a large negative impact on those who do craft. As a personal example, both my wife and I craft and use our income to purchase rare CM goodies on the GTN. If crafting and / or the ability to earn credits through crafting is impacted negatively by the changes, my wife will quit the game. I mostly play because she does, so that would be two subs gone. I don't know how many wiould take the same path, but there would be some. Devs don't make much sense to me, but I will still say that it does not make sense to cause players to leave the game by your efforts to increase the number of players.

 

In any case, on October 20 I will likely reread this post and shake my head at what a dummy I am.

Edited July 8, 2015 by asbalana

Your PvE and PvP objectives would be just as impacted by RNG as the current system. Specifically the number of other players going after those objectives and how available those objectives are.

At least if the quest area is overpopulated and no objectives are available, I can log out for a few hours and come back later to see if the situation has resolved itself. I also have the option to just camp next to an objective spawn point and be almost certain that I'll get it after a bit of waiting. With the crafting RNG I can never be certain that I'll get the schematic.

At least if the quest area is overpopulated and no objectives are available, I can log out for a few hours and come back later to see if the situation has resolved itself.

I'll grant that.

 

I also have the option to just camp next to an objective spawn point and be almost certain that I'll get it after a bit of waiting.

That's assuming that an objective is guaranteed to drop what you want. Which is not always the case. With this in mind, how long would you camp a spot? an hour? two? a day?

 

I remember playing EQ1. Halas Meat Pies required a material that only dropped off one type of mob in one zone and only at night (EQ1 has a day/night cycle). There was frequently a line of players waiting on the spawn. Luckily, you only needed one drop to make a lot of meat pies, but you sometimes had to kill half a dozen mobs to get one drop.

 

 

With the crafting RNG I can never be certain that I'll get the schematic.

 

100% certain? no. But in life nothing is 100% certain except that you will die .

 

Statistically certain? yes. There is 97% certainty that you will get the schematic within 15 tries. And there is 99% certainty you will get the schematic within 20 tries. Granted there are those occasions when reality fails to abide the probabilities, but they are the exception not the rule.

 

And as I already said, I would rather have an RNG where there are as few "out of my control" variables as possible. With the current crafting RNG, all I have to do is keep on crafting and keep on REing until I get what I want; *I* control all the variables except the RNG. In PvE/PvP objectives there are variables out of personal control.

Edited July 8, 2015 by psandak

As long as they keep having our companions craft rather than characters having to do it themselves. Before I played here I played a text-based <non-graphic> game called Dragonrealms where characters had to craft things themselves - you had to spend time in the forge, or sewing things, or stirring things with a mortar and pestle, with that skill not directly tied to advancement in your level, but only in your chosen crafting skill. And it was a huge time-sink, took time away from time you could otherwise be in combat, advancing your character, etc.

I pretty much like the crafting here much better, although I would like to see more options.

Although there are some problems that I've noticed that I would like to see go away:

 

If for instance I've maxed a companions affection, and maxed to 500 my ability in a craft, my companion shouldn't bloody well fail to come back with a great result after being sent to scavenge/ craft/ treasurehunt, etc.

One of the things I hope they address is material gathering. Currently there is a huge imbalance with gathered mats vs what they are used for vs where they are found.

 

It's been my experience that crafting never levels with you, you always out level your profession. I pretty much am never able to craft anything for my level, as levels hardly ever match what you are gathering to what you can make.

 

It's very easy to outgrow your gathering profession. It is especially true now with 12x XP. And if they are going to streamline it so you level faster after they ditch 12x XP, it's going to stay that way.

 

Material tiers are not uniform across professions per planet. If you look at the chart, you'll see there is plenty of metal across planets spread out pretty well, getting at least 2, sometimes 3 tiers per planet and all tiers drop BOTH components. So you only have 1 or 2 nodes per tier. Bio mats are ok, but there is some disparity. Most planets only have 1 tier of nodes, and those nodes only have 1 of 4 compounds per tier. Archeology is worse off yet. Most tiers have 5 nodes per tier, which share the same spawn points. And every tier only has 1 per node with a small chance at the second material. I actually had a whole post wrote out at one point just dedicated to that problem alone, with the probability per tier to get the node you need.

 

The massive mess of schematics is starting to bog down the system. The recent change to collapsed when opening helped, but the bloat is still there. Figure that 1 enhancement for instance spawns at least 12 variations of the original recipe. And the RE chance to learn some are horrible.

 

Mission times are horrible as well, and are not uniform. Over an hour for a mission that only drops 2 items and has an insane cost is crazy. And the RNG crit for gathering can be even worse (T3 UT Metal anyone?).

 

Having to go to the fleet to get your crafting skills, hence losing out on that first 7 to 10 levels that you could be leveling them up.

 

I could keep going, the system is in complete shambles, and I really am hoping for a complete overhaul. At the cantina event in Vegas, I did bring up crafting and they said that they really wanted to take a good look at the system. If they are going to overhaul it, now would be the time.

That's assuming that an objective is guaranteed to drop what you want. Which is not always the case. With this in mind, how long would you camp a spot? an hour? two? a day?

True, quest items from mobs with less than 100% droprate can be annoying to get. Fortunately those are few and far between in SW:TOR. I think BW has even changed some quests over time to increase the droprates.

 

I remember playing EQ1. Halas Meat Pies required a material that only dropped off one type of mob in one zone and only at night (EQ1 has a day/night cycle). There was frequently a line of players waiting on the spawn. Luckily, you only needed one drop to make a lot of meat pies, but you sometimes had to kill half a dozen mobs to get one drop.

If we're talking about other games, there is this one popular item in Anarchy Online (or it was popular when I last played it at least). As a crafting ingredient, it requires another item that drops from a single mob in the entire game. Not a single type of mob, literally a single mob. This particular mob has a 25 minute spawn time. I can't find any exact information of the droprate, but I believe it's under one percent. You'd have to camp it 29 hours straight to have a 50% chance at a drop - and that's assuming no one else comes to steal your kills. In AO kill credit goes to the person (or team) who does most damage to the mob, so if the other guy can put out more DPS than you, there's not much you can do.

Biggest issues:

- Save few exceptions, crafting does not award anything that isn't obtainable by other means

- To craft anything remotely meaningful, you need to grind the endgame for dropped mats, and reverse engineer mods that are acquired from the endgame. Why the hell do we even have crafting now??

- Several crafted things were outdated into oblivion by cartel market.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Karkais

Biggest issues:

- Save few exceptions, crafting does not award anything that isn't obtainable by other means

- To craft anything remotely meaningful, you need to grind the endgame for dropped mats, and reverse engineer mods that are acquired from the endgame. Why the hell do we even have crafting now??

- Several crafted things were outdated into oblivion by cartel market.

 

So basically you want a system where crafting is the ONLY means to acquire certain things?

 

That would take crafting squarely into required rather than optional. Crafting should always be optional.

So basically you want a system where crafting is the ONLY means to acquire certain things?

Hell the **** yeah.

 

That would take crafting squarely into required rather than optional. Crafting should always be optional.

You can choose not to acquire certain things. I mean, you don't HAVE to HAVE EVERYTHING at ALL TIMES. Jeez.

 

Even an alternate way to acquire certain things would be good, but currently crafting is not even that. The only thing that crafting gives, are things from endgame. To get these without crafting, you need to do the endgame and dailies. In order to craft these, you need mats from..... the endgame and dailies. Devs, please explain what is the bloody point? Its a LONGER route to achieve the same thing, thus, by definition, POINTLESS.

 

ps. Few people object to flashpoints and ops being basically obligatory.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Karkais