So with the most recent Dev post, I see that we are again at the mercy of how they want us to play the game and not how WE want to play. "In PvP, we want to continue to foster more high quality matches in Ranked, especially Group Ranked. So far this year we’ve boosted rewards to that end, but haven’t seen as much movement there as we would like. So, in addition to boosting conquest rewards for Ranked (as indicated in David’s post), we are introducing an additional exclusive reward which is required to build the new augments." And then, "To be clear, these augments will require BOTH the PvE material (only available in Master Mode Operations) AND the PvP material (only available in Ranked) to craft. We acknowledge that many players prefer one mode over the other, however we have a robust trading economy that rewards those who make these scarce materials available either via the Galactic Trade Network or simply trade chat."

What this means is they are forcing players to do what they want us to do regardless of how we want to play. If you want to have the augments and not pvp, its very clear you are going to have to pay millions and millions to have access to them through GTN. They have done this before, pushing pvp on the populace because that's what they care about, and it failed. I'm so sick of the Devs running this game this way. Because of Zors and the pvp minded devs the common player has suffered since the first year the game was launched.

With all the grand knowledge going on an Bioware/EA, maybe they could fix the bugs in the game that have been there for a number of years, making the game better and easing quality of life. I'm guessing this is just the way it going to be until we get a new mmorpg Star Wars game in the future. This 6.1.4 patch is going to be trash.

So with the most recent Dev post, I see that we are again at the mercy of how they want us to play the game and not how WE want to play. "In PvP, we want to continue to foster more high quality matches in Ranked, especially Group Ranked. So far this year we’ve boosted rewards to that end, but haven’t seen as much movement there as we would like. So, in addition to boosting conquest rewards for Ranked (as indicated in David’s post), we are introducing an additional exclusive reward which is required to build the new augments." And then, "To be clear, these augments will require BOTH the PvE material (only available in Master Mode Operations) AND the PvP material (only available in Ranked) to craft. We acknowledge that many players prefer one mode over the other, however we have a robust trading economy that rewards those who make these scarce materials available either via the Galactic Trade Network or simply trade chat."

What this means is they are forcing players to do what they want us to do regardless of how we want to play. If you want to have the augments and not pvp, its very clear you are going to have to pay millions and millions to have access to them through GTN. They have done this before, pushing pvp on the populace because that's what they care about, and it failed. I'm so sick of the Devs running this game this way. Because of Zors and the pvp minded devs the common player has suffered since the first year the game was launched.

With all the grand knowledge going on an Bioware/EA, maybe they could fix the bugs in the game that have been there for a number of years, making the game better and easing quality of life. I'm guessing this is just the way it going to be until we get a new mmorpg Star Wars game in the future. This 6.1.4 patch is going to be trash.

There is more than one way to pay this game. Like it or not people do pvp and that is who will grind for these.

Oh, blah, blah, blah. More whining about nothing. 🙄

 

Anyone who actually 'needs' these augments has the skill and/or credits to get the mats. Yes, you'll need to spend your credits on materials rather than saving them up to buy that fancy armor. Boo, frickin' hoo. 😍

Read the first part of OP's post:

So with the most recent Dev post, I see that we are again at the mercy of how they want us to play the game and not how WE want to play. "In PvP, we want to continue to foster more high quality matches in Ranked, especially Group Ranked. So far this year we’ve boosted rewards to that end, but haven’t seen as much movement there as we would like."

OP has a point here. There is the vaunted theme of the 6.0 / Onslaught / Spoils of War : "Play your way", and there is the latest post about the upcoming augments thing, "er, you guys aren't playing as much Group Ranked as we'd like, so we're going to do something about it."

Kind of a conflict there.

Well. Sort of. My analysis, in "SteveThe" mode, leaving out the "Cynic" for the moment(1), is that the "your way" they are talking about is talking mostly about gearing styles (with a big huge variety of tacticals and set bonuses so you can pick and choose what you want(2)), rather than about the kinds of activities you participate in.

(1) If you include the "Cynic", then I would be obliged to note a Fordian aspect to "Play Your Way".

Fordian aspect? The Ford in question is Henry Ford, he of the Model T and the production line, but also he of an infamous quote:

A customer have a car painted in any colour he wants as long as it's black.

Or, paraphrased to our context:

A player may play any content he wants as long as its the content we want to play.

That kind of Fordian aspect.

(2) A more negative assessment might point out that theorycraft has already dismissed sets X, Y and Z (plus others), so the effective choices are less liberal than the apparent variety might indicate.

There is the vaunted theme of the 6.0 / Onslaught / Spoils of War : "Play your way", and there is the latest post about the upcoming augments thing, "er, you guys aren't playing as much Group Ranked as we'd like, so we're going to do something about it."

 

Kind of a conflict there.

I mean, theoretically, it's not a conflict. You can still ignore PvP and buy the materials from PvPers, can't you? Or did I miss something about the mats being bound on pickup or something?

I think the real point it comes down to is, regardless of how they're acquired, the intent is to make these really, really, really grindy. I don't think it has as much to do with what content is being played as how much time is spent playing it.

I mean, theoretically, it's not a conflict. You can still ignore PvP and buy the materials from PvPers, can't you? Or did I miss something about the mats being bound on pickup or something?

 

I think the real point it comes down to is, regardless of how they're acquired, the intent is to make these really, really, really grindy. I don't think it has as much to do with what content is being played as how much time is spent playing it.

You realize they'll be charging probably 50 mil minimum each if not hundreds of millions right. That's not available for the average player to make the augs.

You realize they'll be charging probably 50 mil minimum each if not hundreds of millions right. That's not available for the average player to make the augs.

Not without massive grinding, no. As noted, that is, presumably, the point.

I mean, theoretically, it's not a conflict. You can still ignore PvP and buy the materials from PvPers, can't you? Or did I miss something about the mats being bound on pickup or something?

Yes, it absolutely is a conflict (except that I don't think "Play Your Way" was meant to really mean "play whatever content you want"). If they tell us we can play the way *we* want, then it's a bit ... off ... for them to complain that we don't play as much of ====> that content type as *they* want.

Yes, it absolutely is a conflict (except that I don't think "Play Your Way" was meant to really mean "play whatever content you want"). If they tell us we can play the way *we* want, then it's a bit ... off ... for them to complain that we don't play as much of ====> that content type as *they* want.

"Play Your Way" was never anything more than a marketing slogan. The idea that they would actually implement such a scheme is laughably naive. This is EA we're talking about. Get serious. Of course they're going to slip it up our *** at every available opportunity. That's how the world of corporate games works.

"Play Your Way" was never anything more than a marketing slogan. The idea that they would actually implement such a scheme is laughably naive. This is EA we're talking about. Get serious. Of course they're going to slip it up our *** at every available opportunity. That's how the world of corporate games works.

Marketing slogan or not, people took it seriously, and there *are* limits to how blatantly they should trample over that seriousness.

Nope, absolutely not a conflict. If you think there is I suggest you go back and rewatch that stream where they introduced the "play your way" mentality and see what it is they are talking about because a lot of people have been trying to make what they said mean something else. Even if you ignore their stated intent for your own interpretion of "play your way," introducing incentives to play various aspects of the game does not contradict an expanded interpretation of "play your way" either. If that was the case then this expanded interpretation that people like to apply would have been contradicted from the day 6.0 launched since some gear sets were locked to certain content. Neither does having a crafting material locked to one aspect of the game contradict an expanded interpretation of "play your way" so long as that material can be sold to others.

Yeah, the mats will be expensive at first, as is always the case. When CMT's started dropping from Command Crates I easily made ~150 million credits selling those first few that I received because the price, at first, was stupidly high. Approximately 5 million per unit at the time, which quickly halved, and then halved again, and again, until the average price hovered around 500k, which is where it remained until they were made redundant. They were still profitable to sell, just not insanely profitable. The exact same thing has happened to Legendary Embers and Solid Resource Matrices of late. The average prices were 3-4x what they are now. Will people charge ridiculously high prices for the OEM-37's and RPM-13's at first? Absolutely. Will there be people who buy them at that price? Absolutely. Will the prices drop significantly within a short period? Again, absolutely. It happens every single time there is a new crafting material introduced that is required to craft a top tier item. Oh, but these augments will only available via crafting. I guess that contradicts "play your way" as well since some people do not craft.

You realize they'll be charging probably 50 mil minimum each if not hundreds of millions right. That's not available for the average player to make the augs.

Heh, it'll be tough. I'm pretty sure these things gonna be wanted so much more than they are needed.

Way 95% of everything at 75 is downscaled to 70, resulting in situation where most of your stats don't really matter, isn't very sophisticated game design. It results in a situation where properly optimized gear doesn't mean much at 75 in most cases.

I have no time/desire to even look in general direction of HM Ops and have gotten pretty alienated of ground pvp, unranked stuff included. I'm certain I'm an extremely typical TOR player in this regard: majority of people don't play TOR to do HM Ops. I'm guessing majority don't enjoy Warzones either. So..uh..what do I actually do with these new augments again? Ones that are of dubious value at best when I'm downscaled to 70. Story mode Operations? Tatooine heroics? Why does a typical player at 75 want these so badly? < - Honest question, I'm kinda detached from mechanics besides ones in GSF.

Thoughts and prayers to somebody who enjoys unranked WZs at max level though. I mean...aren't those 75 with actual 75 gear?

It has been a long time since TOR had a culture of locking relevant amounts of awesome gear behind difficult high stakes content. Doing so is just about the most normal thing in MMOs or video games in general. Basic game design. Do harder stuff, get better rewards. Its just that people here have gotten used to it not being a thing in TOR.

Game incentivizes and rewards players very generously for tackling some extremely straightforward content. Bring 20 characters to conq target in high yield guild/week and soon, you have more BiS sets than you know what to do with. Meanwhile, HM ops and everything else that is difficult in this game tends to be very stingy with truly unique gear you'd not get elsewhere faster and easier. It is a bit strange.

I'm guessing devs watch this fury and flaming for few weeks, thank the community kindly for the constructive feedback and then put the mats up for sale for fragments. Presto, Game keeps right on incentivizing and rewarding players very generously for tackling some extremely straightforward content.

Getting better rewards from content that actually challenges you makes perfect sense. In general, making sure traditional " raid scene" isn't the only way to get challenged is great. "Play Your Way " would happen if all playstyles had some sort of an aphex difficulty mode with rewards to match. It could be a thing. Hard mode rewards could be available from:

Something stat based or just a ranked mode in GSF.

Master mode KOTET chapters for solo players.

Toughest railshooter missions.

The 3-4 hardest MM FPs(or Uprisings) for 4 person grp enthusiasts.

This whole "play your way" thing is a bit confusing to some people, it seems.

So, say this was baseball. You can 'play your way' by concentrating on hitting, or by stealing bases, or by shifting the outfield around etc. But 'play your way' doesn't mean you can run backwards around the bases, or start the batter at first base etc.

"Play your way" means play whatever way you want but, within the basic rules and/or limitations, of the game.

This whole "play your way" thing is a bit confusing to some people, it seems.

 

So, say this was baseball. You can 'play your way' by concentrating on hitting, or by stealing bases, or by shifting the outfield around etc. But 'play your way' doesn't mean you can run backwards around the bases, or start the batter at first base etc.

"Play your way" means play whatever way you want but, within the basic rules and/or limitations, of the game.

Terrible analogy b/c you are relying on a single sport to achieve an end. A far better sports analogy would be a triathlon. Let's stipulate in a triathlon your goal is to get to from Point A to Point Z. You do so in a combo of three events:

1) Swimming; 2) Cycling; and 3) Running.

With respect to SWTOR your goal is to get the Augments. You can do so in a combination of :

1) Master Mode Ops; 2) Ranked PvP; or 3) GTN.

In light of the onerous requirements, though, the mats will be grotesquely expensive, meaning you are strongly incentivized to do both 1 and 2.

Point being, as a Hutt, I like Running (well, Slithering), Swimming not so much (well, okay, Floating on my Pleasure Barge), but I really don't do well on Bicycles.

More broadly, it calls into question BW's entire design philosophy and prioritization. For a year now, BW's (apparently) relatively new design director has had the opportunity to fix Crafting and Amps. He has not done so and has given no time frame.

To use a real world analogy (you seem to like those) -- It's like bringing a patient with a gaping blaster wound in their chest and having the Med Droid say: "Oh my stars and galaxies - their nail polish is all chipped! Get me Nasty Dasty's Plum Purple now!"

Dasty

Nope, absolutely not a conflict. If you think there is I suggest you go back and rewatch that stream where they introduced the "play your way" mentality and see what it is they are talking about because a lot of people have been trying to make what they said mean something else. Even if you ignore their stated intent for your own interpretion of "play your way," introducing incentives to play various aspects of the game does not contradict an expanded interpretation of "play your way" either.

Depends on how they express the introduction of those incentives. If they present it as they did, "we see people aren't playing as much Team Ranked as we'd like," then it is transmitting a message, "we want more of you to play like this, so we're going to fix it so more of you have to." (The key part of that is "as we'd like", of course.)

If, on the other hand, they present it as, "we see that people aren't playing very much Team Ranked, so we're going to offer some incentives to do so," then they send a message of, "hmm, we messed up and didn't make that activity very worthwhile. If you're avoiding it because of that, here's something you might want," except that the "incentive" they offered counts strongly as "do it or you won't be able to get the new gear option."

But you overlooked the other thing I said...

(except that I don't think "Play Your Way" was meant to really mean "play whatever content you want")

Depends on how they express the introduction of those incentives. If they present it as they did, "we see people aren't playing as much Team Ranked as we'd like," then it is transmitting a message, "we want more of you to play like this, so we're going to fix it so more of you have to." (The key part of that is "as we'd like", of course.)

 

If, on the other hand, they present it as, "we see that people aren't playing very much Team Ranked, so we're going to offer some incentives to do so," then they send a message of, "hmm, we messed up and didn't make that activity very worthwhile. If you're avoiding it because of that, here's something you might want," except that the "incentive" they offered counts strongly as "do it or you won't be able to get the new gear option."

 

But you overlooked the other thing I said...

Sorry. I was not directly replying to you, which is why I did not quote you. My reply was intended more as a general response. While I did use your phrasing of "conflict" you are not the only one that has expressed that sentiment. That said, let us go ahead and address this.

Since the launch of 6.0 augments have not been part of the "play your way" mentality. Speaking specifically of the two top tier augments, irating 276 and 286. These tiers of augments both require ten Processed Isotope Stabilizers. PIS's only drop from specific content. Then, in order to acquire the augments one must partake in a very specific activity: crafting.

So, to acquire irating 276 and 286 augments one must:

• Train various crafting skills up to level 600
  
• Pay 500k credits in order to train their crafting skills beyond level 600
  
• Acquire the mats to be able to craft various assembled components
  
• For 286 augments, craft enough 276 augments and reverse engineer them in order to learn the 286 schematic
  
• Run specific content in order to acquire the requisite number of PIS's (10 required for each augment)
  
• Complete Conquest for their personal rewards (four Solid Resource Matrices), and preferably be in a guild for the additional two to four Matrices (five required per 286 augment)
  
• Acquire Legendary Embers through one of the few means by which to acquire them (five required per 286 augment)
  
• Still not done, and now craft enough Augmentation Kit MK-11's, which, again, require various assembled components and mats from different skills in order to be able to slot those augments
  

Perhaps we have different definitions of "play your way," but to me that looks quite a lot like "play a specific way." Or, of course, one can just buy the mats or finished items on the GTN.

Augments were never part of "play your way." Current augments require specific play to craft them. The new augments will require specific play to craft them. Current augments can be acquired by purchasing the necessary materials and crafting them oneself. The new augments can be acquired by purchasing the necessary materials and crafting them oneself. Current augments can be acquired by purchasing the finished product. The new augments can be acquired by purchasing the finished product. The new augments merely require a more exclusive crafting material.

There is no conflict.

This is in contrast to their stated intent for "play your way" wherein one can run any content, from story to MM OPs, and still progress their gear up to irating 306 and acquire a set bonus and tactical. Will one acquire a BiS set bonus or tactical in this manner? Possibly not, but quite a few of the set bonuses and tactical items on the class vendors on the fleet are considered BiS, and all that one has to do to acquire those is play whatever content they choose and accumulate the tech fragments and credits needed to purchase the item. That is "play your way." Augments that require specific materials, that are only available from specific locations, and a specific activity to produce them are not "play your way."

Not without massive grinding, no. As noted, that is, presumably, the point.

Well it is because "play it your way" does imply that your choices constitute a reasonable proposition. So excessive grind does NOT fit that bill. Then you get punished for playing the game your way. I get that there are differences in playstyles and how they are rewarded already but this will make those differences massive.

Personally I'm not against BiS gear being hard to get, but in the context of the direction the game has been going into with regards to gearing in 5.0 and 6.0 this definitely constitutes a deviation.

Even the last time they made people go to warzones and ops to farm mats they were a LOT easier to get and you needed a LOT less of them. This is a niche item for a niche crowd and that's very uncharacteristic within the context of the last few years.

Again.

MAYBE a tenth of a single percent of the playerbase will see any noticeable change to their performance for the content they do with these new augs.

Again.

 

MAYBE a tenth of a single percent of the playerbase will see any noticeable change to their performance for the content they do with these new augs.

Exactly. It is for that reason that I am still using the old purple 228 augments. It did not hurt that I already had most of what I needed crafted, either. The tertiary stat on the 228's is +96. The 276 augments only have +95 to tertiary stats. Yeah, the 276's do have approx. twice the Endurance, and +126 Power, but those stats are completely wasted in most content in the game. And the higher 286 augments, with +108 tertiary, are only 12 points more. That would be an addition 168 to a tertiary stat if I upgraded all of my augments to 286, but only if they were all for the same stat.

Going up to the new 300's would mean another ~400 to a tertiary stat*. Is that really going to make a huge difference? We already know that unless you are running very specific content, the very content where these mats will drop, the very content that so many people are saying only a small portion of the population even runs, the additional Endurance and Power will be entirely wasted.

* 400 is a major assumption. Assuming the difference is a bit more than twice that of going from 276->286 (a difference of 13 points per augment) vs 286->300, and assuming that all 14 augments are for the same tertiary stat. In my case they are not.

You could always...you know...not use the augments. It isn’t as though they are absolutely necessary for every aspect of the game. If you needed them just to play, I could see the major issue. But as it stands, I’m pretty sure that only hardcore players will go for them. And the content that yields the mats is the exact content that hardcore players go for. No one is holding a gun to players’ heads and saying “do this content”.

Besides, as has already been pointed out, the price of these things will most likely drop in a couple of months, anyway. I’ve been around long enough to see this cycle multiple times, and this will be no different.

You could always...you know...not use the augments. It isn’t as though they are absolutely necessary for every aspect of the game. If you needed them just to play, I could see the major issue. But as it stands, I’m pretty sure that only hardcore players will go for them. And the content that yields the mats is the exact content that hardcore players go for. No one is holding a gun to players’ heads and saying “do this content”.

 

Besides, as has already been pointed out, the price of these things will most likely drop in a couple of months, anyway. I’ve been around long enough to see this cycle multiple times, and this will be no different.

I have mad another thread about the mats needed for these new augs...The amount needed for these new augs is insane ! its around 5 x more than any previous augments relative to the current game.

This cycle You talk about is tru..to some extent..the 6.0 legendary gear has been almost 11 month to come down in price on GTN since release of 6.0 that introduced these ! a chest piece of the 304 to 306 gear costs 14M as lowest price on GTN as of today and the mats needed to craft these is around 5x lower than the new augments (timewise to acquire) multiply the 14M by 5 and you get = 70M which is equal to the cost of a Black and Black dye module on Cartel store that costs 1500 CC to buy ! Again this is after almost a FULL YEAR since you could craft these items we compare with ! they where at 200M for many months (first 4 months after 6.0 they where not even on GTN as people had not farmed enough yet to craft them)

So lets say after 1 year of the upcoming patch You can equip ONE character with 14 augments for 70M x 14 = 980 000 000 credits or equivalent of 1500 x 14 CC coins = 21000 CC, that is, after around a year after the new patch is released ! at which point a new expansion has made them obsolete..before that while they are still RELEVANT You will pay around 3 times that or 63000 CC fpr 14 augments, now go and see what it costs to buy 63000 CC

There is more than one way to pay this game. Like it or not people do pvp and that is who will grind for these.

I'm sure all 14 of you will have your augments in the end.

You realize they'll be charging probably 50 mil minimum each if not hundreds of millions right. That's not available for the average player to make the augs.

That is if they are not Bind to Player...