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2.10 seer changes


jstyrka

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Any word yet of the classes changes for seer spec? I heard 2.10 will be the last class balance patch before 3.0. Would really like to be able to do ranked healing on my sage and the devs we're making seer changes a high priority according to the top 3 questions
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Sage healing will NEVER be viable in competitive PVP because it relies on slow heals that can be interrupted very easily. Scoundrel healers work because they have three heals that are instant and can't be interrupted. Anytime your Sage tries to get a heal off, you can be interrupted, pushed, pulled, stunned, or CCed. There isn't a whole lot of balancing that can be done here outside of turning the Sage into a completely different kind of healer with completely different kinds of abilities.
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I think there are a couple things they might do. The main viability issues with Sages in current content stem from weaker raid healing (due to mechanics which force people out of Salvation) and less bursty single-target heals. Bioware could address the former problem in a couple of ways. Some of the more obvious involve increasing the radius on Salvation and/or applying an effect which causes one or two ticks to "follow" the player after leaving the area of effect (could be balanced by reducing the duration to 8 seconds). Another idea which would be fun would be to take the self-HoT on Force Armor and apply it across the board. This would also help Sages enormously in PvP.

 

A more fun approach, I think, would be to look at a proc mechanism for reducing the lockout on Force Armor. This would radically buff single-target healing, if done right. One way this could be done is in the same fashion as the faster Salvation: trading off against energy management. Resplendence would then have three possible effects: Noble Sacrifice without degrading regeneration (consumes one stack), faster Salvation (consumes all stacks), or Force Armor with 50% of the lockout (consumes one stack). A 50% lockout on Force Armor would double the potential HPS from this heal, making it actually somewhat superior to Bacta Infusion, though obviously at a higher cost. This would also help a lot with viability in PvP.

 

Hilariously, as I think about the various options, one which very quickly comes to mind is actually a very old idea: a proc to shorten the cast time on Deliverance. :-S Obviously that didn't work because of PvP, but it certainly would be helpful in the single-target PvE department.

 

Sages don't really need *that* much help, they just need the content to stop punishing them disproportionately. Making adjustments to their apex heal would go quite far in this area.

Edited by KeyboardNinja
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I think there are a couple things they might do. The main viability issues with Sages in current content stem from weaker raid healing (due to mechanics which force people out of Salvation) and less bursty single-target heals. Bioware could address the former problem in a couple of ways. Some of the more obvious involve increasing the radius on Salvation and/or applying an effect which causes one or two ticks to "follow" the player after leaving the area of effect (could be balanced by reducing the duration to 8 seconds). Another idea which would be fun would be to take the self-HoT on Force Armor and apply it across the board. This would also help Sages enormously in PvP.

 

A more fun approach, I think, would be to look at a proc mechanism for reducing the lockout on Force Armor. This would radically buff single-target healing, if done right. One way this could be done is in the same fashion as the faster Salvation: trading off against energy management. Resplendence would then have three possible effects: Noble Sacrifice without degrading regeneration (consumes one stack), faster Salvation (consumes all stacks), or Force Armor with 50% of the lockout (consumes one stack). A 50% lockout on Force Armor would double the potential HPS from this heal, making it actually somewhat superior to Bacta Infusion, though obviously at a higher cost. This would also help a lot with viability in PvP.

 

Hilariously, as I think about the various options, one which very quickly comes to mind is actually a very old idea: a proc to shorten the cast time on Deliverance. :-S Obviously that didn't work because of PvP, but it certainly would be helpful in the single-target PvE department.

 

Sages don't really need *that* much help, they just need the content to stop punishing them disproportionately. Making adjustments to their apex heal would go quite far in this area.

 

I swear my brilliant idea of reducing the heals on Benevolence slightly in exchange for a cost reduction to 30 force and making it instant (and also crit Benevolence adding a stack on Resplendence) could be perfect for this - Fixes issues in PvP where people can completely shut down a sage healer with an interrupt, and lets PvE sages actually use Benevolence! (Seriously, I took that off my quick bar at level 14)

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I swear my brilliant idea of reducing the heals on Benevolence slightly in exchange for a cost reduction to 30 force and making it instant (and also crit Benevolence adding a stack on Resplendence) could be perfect for this - Fixes issues in PvP where people can completely shut down a sage healer with an interrupt, and lets PvE sages actually use Benevolence! (Seriously, I took that off my quick bar at level 14)

 

Only problem is that bioware said they dont want to give us more instant heals. The only exception would be if its based on a proc.

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Here's what I would do (it's a mix of KBN's ideas and some other bits):

 

1a. Resplendence stacks can now be used on Force Armor: "Force Armor: No longer causes Force-imbalance, and consumes 2 charges."

OR

1b. Resplendence stacks can now be used on Benevolence: "Benevolence: Benevolence activates instantly, and its cost is reduced by 25 Force, consuming 1 charge."

2. Healing Trance is now uninterruptible as well as being immune to pushback.

3. Replace Amnesty with Strength of Will: You are immune to interrupts and pushback while Mental Alacrity is active. In addition, Force Barrier now purges Noble Sacrifice's Force-degeneration effects.

4. Salvation has been redesigned somewhat. Salvation still leaves an area of effect heal for players who stand in it. Now, Salvation additionally leaves a HoT on players when they leave the area of effect or when the effect ends, granting them a heal over time equal to standing in Salvation for 6s. Players can only attain this heal over time by leaving the area of effect once. Salvation's area of effect duration has been reduced to 6s. Salvation's healing has been adjusted downwards slightly (i.e. current 10s of Salvation now spreads its healing out over the 6 second area of effect component and the + 6s healing over time component).

 

Points one, two, and three are supposed to address its PvP and on-the-move issues to a reasonable extent. 1a is likely stronger than 1b, so if 1a seems overpowered, 1b is a decent solution that actually makes Benevolence useful in PvP play (and in some PvE instances, even). 1a is, however, balanced by requiring two charges of Resplendence, which would create an interesting 1-2-3 mechanic (NS uses one, FA uses two, Salvation uses three charges). Point two is a long time coming, no explanation needed. Point three should be as well, no one in their right mind uses NS without Resplendence stacks. Amnesty in its current state a useless ability, and Strength of Will actually provides some PvP utility, combining burst heals with interrupt/pushback immunity that will allow Sages to stall opponents much better than previously (imagine Mental Alacrity into dropping Rejuvenate >>> Healing Trance >>> Salvation >>> Force Armor >>> Deliverance, and popping Force Barrier...lots of stall potential).

 

The biggest thing is the redesign of Salvation. Since it will leave a HoT when you leave the effect, you can drop it on people on the run and still get a HoT out of it, making it useful in transitions and addressing a massive weakness of the Sage healing in the current content/meta. It also effectively increases the duration of it (12s out of 15s as opposed to 10s out of 15s), though to balance it, the healing per second would be tuned down a bit. I'm actually pretty happy with my redesign of idea of Salvation: it still makes the AoE relevant, but it also includes a HoT mechanic that helps address Sage weaknesses with movement and mobility.

Edited by ezrafetch
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Jedi Consular

Sage

Seer

Master Speed now places a Hindered effect on enemies around the Sage when Force Speed is activated.

Amnesty now allows Force Potency to finish the cooldown of Mental Alacrity, in addition to its other effects.

 

 

Umm...okay. Like these are 100% good changes but still...I just don't...what...why....

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The facts say that healing sage is PVP's longest running joke. In all forms of PVP, healing sages are so easy to shutdown, they're next to useless.

 

I'm not sure what the heck the sages and sorcs are doing on your server, but on the 6 I've PvP'd on they're continually on top in 8v8.

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I'm not sure what the heck the sages and sorcs are doing on your server, but on the 6 I've PvP'd on they're continually on top in 8v8.

 

I have an idea for you. Why don't you go to the PVP board and make a topic called "Sages are the best healers in 8 vs 8" and see how many dozens of posts you get filled with reasons why you're absolutely not telling the truth in any way, shape. or form. The POT5 guys will definitely get a kick out of you.

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I have an idea for you. Why don't you go to the PVP board and make a topic called "Sages are the best healers in 8 vs 8" and see how many dozens of posts you get filled with reasons why you're absolutely not telling the truth in any way, shape. or form. The POT5 guys will definitely get a kick out of you.

 

pot5 is one of said servers I've played on and yea even there sorcs/sages were on top, you shouldn't judge the whole class based on a few bad players, just saying

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We'll we got some nice buffs. Wonder if they are still going to change the set bonus too to remove health cost from nobile sacrifice as they mentioned it in the sage top 3 answers

 

honestly set bonuses should be used for little extra goodies, not necessities. attaching the no health cost to Dark Resilience again is what's needed.

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honestly set bonuses should be used for little extra goodies, not necessities. attaching the no health cost to Dark Resilience again is what's needed.

 

Agreed. Resplendence should allow Noble Sacrifice to cost not health and we should be able to use all three stack if it is needed.

 

I also like the Benevolence idea posted about. Instant cast less force BUT 1.5-2.5 second cool down.

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we should be able to use all three stack if it is needed.

 

you mean having the ability to use all stacks at once to gain force, instead of one at a time? that could be beneficial. if they took consumption off the GCD and put it on a 1.5 internal CD per stack used that would also be nice. but would gaining 24% force with one press of a button be too much?

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you mean having the ability to use all stacks at once to gain force, instead of one at a time? that could be beneficial. if they took consumption off the GCD and put it on a 1.5 internal CD per stack used that would also be nice. but would gaining 24% force with one press of a button be too much?

 

24% Force in a button press seems a bit too much, especially with how fast you can build up Resplendence stacks. I think your idea of taking Cons/NS off of the GCD and giving it an ICD would be a good start though. It would allow Sages/Sorcs to maintain healing throughput while regenerating Force, while giving them the option to just stand there and regenerate Force if they want.

 

I suppose the biggest changes I would hope for with Sage heals still to come are:

1. Salvation redesign. 6s AoE with a residual 6s HoT, to help address AoE healing on the run.

2. Cons/NS going off of the cooldown, give it an ICD=1.5s.

3. Healing Trance is straight up immune to interrupts. If JKs get an uninterruptable Master Strike, the least Sages could get is a heal immune to interrupts because they have currently have literally zero heals that can't be interrupted.

4. Attach a use for Benevolence on Resplendence stacks. Reduced cost (or free!) + Instant for a Resplendence stack. That, or eliminate the lockout on Force Armor for 2 Resplendence stacks.

5. Don't need the Mental Alacrity reset from Force Potency on Amnesty. It's ok, but I'd much much rather have Amnesty be halving the Cons/NS health cost instead. Sage/Sorc have pretty solid burst healing already, so I don't think giving a CD reset for extra burst heals is really necessary.

 

I would say the minimum Sages should get is 1 and 3. 4 should happen since Benevolence is currently useless, and in either iteration would help Sage heals. Heck, I'd switch to Sage heals for the new content if some of these changes actually happened. *ahem BW we're trying to help*

Edited by ezrafetch
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  • 2 weeks later...

FROM PTS

 

Jedi Consular

Sage

 

In addition to increasing maximum Force, Force Studies now also increases armor rating by 20%.

Force Mend no longer causes a global cooldown.

Noble Sacrifice now has a 1.5 second cooldown (to keep it from being used more than once every 1.5 seconds in situations where it has no global cooldown).

Seer

 

Master Speed now places a Hindered effect that lasts 4 seconds on enemies damaged by the Sage’s Force Wave.

Using Noble Sacrifice with a stack of Resplendence no longer causes a global cooldown.

In addition to the bonus healing increase, Clairvoyance now also has a 20/40/60% chance, whenever the Sage activates any healing ability other than Benevolence, to make the Sage’s next Benevolence activate instantly. This effect lasts up to 10 seconds, gets consumed when Benevolence is activated, and cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds.

The 4-piece PvP healing set bonus has been modified to make Noble Sacrifice no longer consume health when used with a stack of Resplendence, rather than restore 3% of max health over 6 seconds after use.

Edited by knell
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