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Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Fist of the Empire vs the Confederacy


Beniboybling

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Again.

 

Battle droids can be stopped, shot, with ease if taken over.

 

A single astromech on a ship gets hacked and the battle plans of whichever faction it serves and possible technical readouts are leaked directly to the enemy.

 

Why would any competent commander put better defenses on the one that can do the least damage.

Erm... I'm not sure I follow. :confused:
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Erm... I'm not sure I follow. :confused:

 

:rolleyes:

 

Basically, your argument is that battle droids would have better defenses because they're armed and dangerous and important, and would be unhackable.

 

If that was possible, why wouldn't military personnel droids like astromechs (who we've seen hacked) be protected in the same way, when they can do way more damage by things like assassinating unprotected commanders, download encryption data, battle plans, schematics etc. they could do way more damage so likely would be the best protected, and we've seen them hacked anyway.

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:rolleyes:

 

Basically, your argument is that battle droids would have better defenses because they're armed and dangerous and important, and would be unhackable.

 

If that was possible, why wouldn't military personnel droids like astromechs (who we've seen hacked) be protected in the same way, when they can do way more damage by things like assassinating unprotected commanders, download encryption data, battle plans, schematics etc. they could do way more damage so likely would be the best protected, and we've seen them hacked anyway.

Its not a question of defenses, its a question of how interconnected they are. Astromechs, I assume, can access the HoloNet, and are regularly interfaced with to download updates, be reprogrammed, undergo memory wipes etc.

 

I don't see any evidence to suggest that battle droids are connected to the HoloNet, they are expendable units that spend most of their time in the field and as such are interfaced with rarely. That is the difference.

 

I don't presume to know how powerful these unit's firewalls are, neither do I doubt that Sith Intelligence can overcome them, but ultimately all the hacking abilities in the world are useless if you cannot interface with your target.

Edited by Beniboybling
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Its not a question of defenses, its a question of how interconnected they are. Astromechs, I assume, can access the HoloNet, and are regularly interfaced with to download updates, be reprogrammed, undergo memory wipes etc.

 

I don't see any evidence to suggest that battle droids are connected to the HoloNet, they are expendable units that spend most of their time in the field and as such are interfaced with rarely. That is the difference.

 

I don't presume to know how powerful these unit's firewalls are, neither do I doubt that Sith Intelligence can overcome them, but ultimately all the hacking abilities in the world are useless if you cannot interface with your target.

 

Oh.

 

Well they had one central receiver even if they didn't have a central control ship, it's how the CIS shut down the entirety of it's droid army right at the same time during the war, they sent a single signal out.

 

So yah, that can happen.

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Oh.

 

Well they had one central receiver even if they didn't have a central control ship, it's how the CIS shut down the entirety of it's droid army right at the same time during the war, they sent a single signal out.

 

So yah, that can happen.

Well the point I have been trying to make is that that receiver is likely located in Jabba's Palace.
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Well the point I have been trying to make is that that receiver is likely located in Jabba's Palace.

 

Routing a signal through that or infiltrating Jabba's palace would be a cakewalk for Imperial Intelligence.

 

Or are you forgetting the time Cipher Nine, after just completing her training, infiltrated the palace of Nemro by posing as one of the most infamous pirates in the Galaxy?

 

Problem with having so many criminals lurking around is a rather large threat of one being a spy, or a fake.

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Routing a signal through that or infiltrating Jabba's palace would be a cakewalk for Imperial Intelligence.

 

Or are you forgetting the time Cipher Nine, after just completing her training, infiltrated the palace of Nemro by posing as one of the most infamous pirates in the Galaxy?

 

Problem with having so many criminals lurking around is a rather large threat of one being a spy, or a fake.

Don't forget however that the Black Sun information networks surpass that of Imperial Intelligence, which makes deception extremely difficult, especially in the middle of a war where not just anyone will be allowed into the palace.

 

I also wouldn't be too sure that a shutdown command will exist, as it was specially developed by the CIS for the CIS. One would think this would be discarded by the Black Sun, or simply never exist in the first place.

 

Remember these droids haven't been plucked from the ranks of the CIS, they've been manufactured by the faction itself.

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OK, I've finished up my write-up of how the Fist will deal with the CICs droid forces.

 

 

We all know how great the CICs droids are. However, as great as they are, they are not invincible. They have weaknesses, and the Fist knows them all. So I will lay out these weaknesses and how the Fist’s ground forces can deal with them, starting with their intelligence.

 

As our Arbiter noted, the CICs droids are most likely without a Central Control Computer, meaning that they operate independently. This is good in some cases, bad in others. As I will point out first.

 

The Cortosis Battle Droids, deadly as they are, use the same programming as Super Battle Droids. This means that they are… less than intelligent. The best they do is walk forward and shoot at a single target until the target is destroyed, leaves line of sight, or it is destroyed. In the case that the target takes cover and there are no other targets in sight, the droids will continue to march forward and firing their blasters ineffectually at… well, nothing.

 

The good news is that the absence of a CCC means that the other droids perform at their normal levels of intelligence.

 

Now let’s talk about their other weaknesses and how they are exploited.

 

Cortosis Battle Droids:

 

The Cortosis Battle Droid has a cortosis shell that is nearly impenetrable to small arms fire and even lightsabers. However, as revealed by Anakin Skywalker, the gap between the droid’s left and right breastplates could be cut straight through by a lightsaber, allowing the lightsaber to cut straight down the droid’s torso, thus splitting it straight down the middle. This seems to imply that the droid possesses much thinner cortosis—or no cortosis at all—protecting its head and parts of its torso.

 

If that’s the case, then the Sith Warriors are not the only ones capable of attacking and disposing of these droids. Yes, the Troopers will have a much more difficult time, but their numerical superiority (almost 5:1 to these droid models) will allow them to outflank and outmaneuver the droids. When they find that the droid’s body is mostly impervious, they will aim for the head naturally.

 

Commando Droids:

 

Well, the Commando Droids don’t really have weaknesses, do they? No, they don’t. I’d skip this part and leave it as a formality, but I think it best to go over how the Fist deals with them anyway.

 

Well, viewers of TCW may note that the Commando Droids are not an incredibly effective machine. At least, not as effective as most Commando Units (Delta Squad FTW, yo!). I’ve made some observations about them, notably that the Commando Droids are most effective at long range and close range. They aren’t that effective as marksmen (err… marksdroids) at medium range. One occasion that comes to mind is the TCW episode when the CIS attacks Dathomir. After the battle is mostly over and the last of the Nightsisters have been surrounded, several squads of Commando Droids (and a whole army, too) took several volleys to kill a few immobile targets. That doesn’t speak well for their standard accuracy, does it?

 

I’ll grant them one thing: they are effective at most everything else.

 

Destroyer Droid Mark II:

 

The Destroyer Droids are the most formidable droid units that the CICs standard force can field. It’s shield is impenetrable to small arms fire and it is covered with weapons. It’s a beast, let’s get that out of the way. It does, however, have weaknesses. They can’t all be exploited by the Fist’s infantry, but they can be exploited. Fortunately, there aren’t that many of them.

 

Firstly, the droid’s shield can be penetrated by physical objects, as seen in TCW. A distraction by a group of soldiers would allow another soldier to put attack the droid from behind. Of course that can’t really be used on the battlefield until the droid has been isolated, likely near the end of the battle.

 

Secondly, as I noted before, when put on its side the droid’s shield will overload, leaving it exposed to attack. This can be accomplished by the Sith Warriors using a simple Force push to brush them aside. Yes, this will be difficult, but not impossible. The droid can be blindsided by a Warrior when they are attacking a different target.

 

It’s going to take some effort, but the Fist’s infantry can overcome them due to their greater numbers.

 

 

So, yes, the CICs droids are incredibly dangerous. Some of the best infantry models created, to be sure. However, they aren’t unbeatable. The Fist has greater numbers, superior training, and—mostly—better weapons.

 

I would also like to bring up some other factors in the destruction of these droids. The Fist will obviously field many of their vehicles on the battlefield. The AT-ST’s more than possess the firepower to destroy many of the droids. The Hailfires certainly pack enough firepower to blow any CIC droids away. And don’t forget the Annihilators, which can waste anything they set their sights on.

 

There is also the desert. The droids will be exposed to the desert environment, and this will cause them issues. Sand in the gears is more than enough to cause some malfunctions. Of course that’s what maintenance crews are for, and they will probably not survive long enough for that to matter.

 

But on the note of vehicles, I’ll go ahead and bring up the AT-APs and discuss them.

 

The AT-APs are most effective as sniper tanks, and they will likely find many places to make use of their range. However, there are also areas where they won’t be as effective. For instance, the Tatooine deserts aren’t all flat, barren, God-forsaken wastelands. They are hilly, or dune-y, or something… the point is that there will be obstructions at points.

 

But when the AT-APs get into a suitable firing position, they will be effective. At first. Right when they start to fire, the Hailfire droids will speed towards them, taking evasive maneuvers as necessary. Once they get into their own range, the AT-APs are helpless against them. Two Hailfires alone have the firepower to destroy all of the CICs AT-APs, sending more is overkill.

 

Granted, the AT-APs will take out many vehicles with their long range weapons, but it won’t be enough to prevent their own destruction.

 

 

 

Basically, numbers, training, and tactics are what will see the Fist to victory over the CICs droids. What more do you need, really?

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Aubere, as objects can penetrate the shields, what is there to stop the Imperial Troopers from using grenades? High-ex or ion grenades should ruin a droid's day.

 

Velocity. Same reason they couldn't just use slug throwers to destroy them.

 

Matter of fact, to make grenades specifically make it past the force field, Clones had to learn how to roll it so that by the time it interacted with the force field, it was at a crawl.

 

Basically anything over a certain speed is stopped by the shield, it is slow objects that are able to penetrate.

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OK, I've finished up my write-up of how the Fist will deal with the CICs droid forces.

 

 

We all know how great the CICs droids are. However, as great as they are, they are not invincible. They have weaknesses, and the Fist knows them all. So I will lay out these weaknesses and how the Fist’s ground forces can deal with them, starting with their intelligence.

 

As our Arbiter noted, the CICs droids are most likely without a Central Control Computer, meaning that they operate independently. This is good in some cases, bad in others. As I will point out first.

 

The Cortosis Battle Droids, deadly as they are, use the same programming as Super Battle Droids. This means that they are… less than intelligent. The best they do is walk forward and shoot at a single target until the target is destroyed, leaves line of sight, or it is destroyed. In the case that the target takes cover and there are no other targets in sight, the droids will continue to march forward and firing their blasters ineffectually at… well, nothing.

 

The good news is that the absence of a CCC means that the other droids perform at their normal levels of intelligence.

 

Now let’s talk about their other weaknesses and how they are exploited.

 

Cortosis Battle Droids:

 

The Cortosis Battle Droid has a cortosis shell that is nearly impenetrable to small arms fire and even lightsabers. However, as revealed by Anakin Skywalker, the gap between the droid’s left and right breastplates could be cut straight through by a lightsaber, allowing the lightsaber to cut straight down the droid’s torso, thus splitting it straight down the middle. This seems to imply that the droid possesses much thinner cortosis—or no cortosis at all—protecting its head and parts of its torso.

 

If that’s the case, then the Sith Warriors are not the only ones capable of attacking and disposing of these droids. Yes, the Troopers will have a much more difficult time, but their numerical superiority (almost 5:1 to these droid models) will allow them to outflank and outmaneuver the droids. When they find that the droid’s body is mostly impervious, they will aim for the head naturally.

 

Commando Droids:

 

Well, the Commando Droids don’t really have weaknesses, do they? No, they don’t. I’d skip this part and leave it as a formality, but I think it best to go over how the Fist deals with them anyway.

 

Well, viewers of TCW may note that the Commando Droids are not an incredibly effective machine. At least, not as effective as most Commando Units (Delta Squad FTW, yo!). I’ve made some observations about them, notably that the Commando Droids are most effective at long range and close range. They aren’t that effective as marksmen (err… marksdroids) at medium range. One occasion that comes to mind is the TCW episode when the CIS attacks Dathomir. After the battle is mostly over and the last of the Nightsisters have been surrounded, several squads of Commando Droids (and a whole army, too) took several volleys to kill a few immobile targets. That doesn’t speak well for their standard accuracy, does it?

 

I’ll grant them one thing: they are effective at most everything else.

 

Destroyer Droid Mark II:

 

The Destroyer Droids are the most formidable droid units that the CICs standard force can field. It’s shield is impenetrable to small arms fire and it is covered with weapons. It’s a beast, let’s get that out of the way. It does, however, have weaknesses. They can’t all be exploited by the Fist’s infantry, but they can be exploited. Fortunately, there aren’t that many of them.

 

Firstly, the droid’s shield can be penetrated by physical objects, as seen in TCW. A distraction by a group of soldiers would allow another soldier to put attack the droid from behind. Of course that can’t really be used on the battlefield until the droid has been isolated, likely near the end of the battle.

 

Secondly, as I noted before, when put on its side the droid’s shield will overload, leaving it exposed to attack. This can be accomplished by the Sith Warriors using a simple Force push to brush them aside. Yes, this will be difficult, but not impossible. The droid can be blindsided by a Warrior when they are attacking a different target.

 

It’s going to take some effort, but the Fist’s infantry can overcome them due to their greater numbers.

 

 

So, yes, the CICs droids are incredibly dangerous. Some of the best infantry models created, to be sure. However, they aren’t unbeatable. The Fist has greater numbers, superior training, and—mostly—better weapons.

 

I would also like to bring up some other factors in the destruction of these droids. The Fist will obviously field many of their vehicles on the battlefield. The AT-ST’s more than possess the firepower to destroy many of the droids. The Hailfires certainly pack enough firepower to blow any CIC droids away. And don’t forget the Annihilators, which can waste anything they set their sights on.

 

There is also the desert. The droids will be exposed to the desert environment, and this will cause them issues. Sand in the gears is more than enough to cause some malfunctions. Of course that’s what maintenance crews are for, and they will probably not survive long enough for that to matter.

 

But on the note of vehicles, I’ll go ahead and bring up the AT-APs and discuss them.

 

The AT-APs are most effective as sniper tanks, and they will likely find many places to make use of their range. However, there are also areas where they won’t be as effective. For instance, the Tatooine deserts aren’t all flat, barren, God-forsaken wastelands. They are hilly, or dune-y, or something… the point is that there will be obstructions at points.

 

But when the AT-APs get into a suitable firing position, they will be effective. At first. Right when they start to fire, the Hailfire droids will speed towards them, taking evasive maneuvers as necessary. Once they get into their own range, the AT-APs are helpless against them. Two Hailfires alone have the firepower to destroy all of the CICs AT-APs, sending more is overkill.

 

Granted, the AT-APs will take out many vehicles with their long range weapons, but it won’t be enough to prevent their own destruction.

 

 

 

Basically, numbers, training, and tactics are what will see the Fist to victory over the CICs droids. What more do you need, really?

Interesting arguments, however I think we need to factor the stealthed transports into this, that will make it difficult to outflank your opponents and apply expertise.
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Please tell me this was a joke.

 

If not, I never want to see your face again ._.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Ee02WLxGk

 

It was involved in every known type of illegal activity; its information networks surpassed even the accuracy and scope of Imperial Intelligence.

 

--Taken from Wookieepedia, source: SWG Trading Card Game

 

No joke I'm afraid :\

Edited by Beniboybling
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Interesting arguments, however I think we need to factor the stealthed transports into this, that will make it difficult to outflank your opponents and apply expertise.

 

Well, my strategies were mainly referring to when the battle starts. I'll be honest, I'm not sure how to deal with stealth transports. Right now, I'm thinking that the AT-ST's holographic maps will be able to pick up some distortion that the transports make as they travel.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Ee02WLxGk

 

It was involved in every known type of illegal activity; its information networks surpassed even the accuracy and scope of Imperial Intelligence.

 

--Taken from Wookieepedia, source: SWG Trading Card Game

 

No joke I'm afraid :\

 

That's referring to the Galactic Empire's Intel network, not the Sith Empire's Intel network. I think the Sith Empire's intel network is superior, but I'm not entirely sure.

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That's referring to the Galactic Empire's Intel network, not the Sith Empire's Intel network. I think the Sith Empire's intel network is superior, but I'm not entirely sure.

 

 

SI is good but Galactic Empire's is just...so much better. Granted, it hasn't had as much exposure, but out right saying that the SI is so tremendously superior...

 

 

One thing we have to keep in mind is that most heroes strength is in direct relation to their Foe Quality, and SiS was pretty pathetic, and not just from SI's efforts. The Rebellion was going nearly toe to toe with GE Intelligence with its Bothan Spies.

 

Wait... Have Bothans even been mentioned in SWTOR?! *This last part isn't meant to reflect upon the decision, just curious* The spies I mean. I know there are a few NPC's.

Edited by Silenceo
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SI is good but Galactic Empire's is just...so much better. Granted, it hasn't had as much exposure, but out right saying that the SI is so tremendously superior...

 

 

One thing we have to keep in mind is that most heroes strength is in direct relation to their Foe Quality, and SiS was pretty pathetic, and not just from SI's efforts. The Rebellion was going nearly toe to toe with GE Intelligence with its Bothan Spies.

 

Wait... Have Bothans even been mentioned in SWTOR?! *This last part isn't meant to reflect upon the decision, just curious* The spies I mean. I know there are a few NPC's.

 

The Spynetwork was established in 300 BBY. So....yeah, no Spynet Work during TOR era.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Also what has the SI even done? It's still a fairly new/vague thing that came up after the collapse of the SE II.

 

I really doubt the SI is superior to the GE II when it hasn't even done anything nor have anything established. I mean...unless of course you guys are using the SE II for the SI....which then doesn't it make more sense to use the SE II?

 

Unless someone already has that in one of their factions? I probably missed something.

 

More to that, you guys act like just because the Black Sun is a criminal organization and not a government one. That it can't have anything superior.

 

Considering that the Black Sun(as described to be embedded within the galaxy) is everywhere, why wouldn't it have an information network that surpasses even the gov'ts?

 

Disregarding that quote from the TCG(which if anyone does remember or can find a picture showing that it's legit, would be nice), it's still not that hard to believe, that the Black Sun would be able to quickly gather and move information.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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"New-found evidence suggests that Imperial Intelligence existed even before the Sith Empire founded it's capital city."

 

"Imperial Intelligence planted spy networks throughout every level of the Republic's government and military, centuries before the invasion."

 

"The hutt-licking Empire went a step further than planting spies, entire political dynasties and Republic navy admirals, even a Jedi High Council member turned out to be Imperial. For all we know, you might be." - Theron Shan

 

"The slaughter of the council on Dantooine was orchestrated by Imperial Intelligence, a Sith Inquisitor planted ten years earlier vanquished an integral Jedi academy in a dark ritual."

 

"Galactic events since the Mandalorian Wars were all part of a grand plan, instigated and designed by Imperial 'Keepers'."

 

"Despite the Intelligence Network being near flawless, the Dark Council demanded something more efficient and so inevitably they turned to their lone allies, the Chiss."

 

"Imperial Intelligence was not relegated to the use of agents in the field, Sith Assassins were used expertly to influence events for decades..."

 

Just some of the quotes I have found regarding Imperial Intelligence in works such as: SWTOR (Codex Entries), SWTOR: Encyclopedia, SWTOR: Annihilation, SWTOR: Threat of Peace, SWTOR: The Lost Suns and SWTOR: Fatal Alliance.

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SI is good but Galactic Empire's is just...so much better. Granted, it hasn't had as much exposure, but out right saying that the SI is so tremendously superior...

 

 

One thing we have to keep in mind is that most heroes strength is in direct relation to their Foe Quality, and SiS was pretty pathetic, and not just from SI's efforts. The Rebellion was going nearly toe to toe with GE Intelligence with its Bothan Spies.

 

Wait... Have Bothans even been mentioned in SWTOR?! *This last part isn't meant to reflect upon the decision, just curious* The spies I mean. I know there are a few NPC's.

 

The Sith intelligence service is infinitely superior. This is the intel agency that played with the SIS for fun and games, had Jedi families implanted into the order hundreds of years before the war, and managed to even implant spies during the war itself.

 

They infiltrated the Hutt Cartel, and that wasn't even considered a tough mission as they sent an agent straight from basic training.

 

The levels of secrecy in the Imperial Intelligence in terms of its operatives were incredible. Cipher nine captured Darth Jadus, discovered a terror cell created by said Darth, executed republic leaders on many worlds and more, and was so unknown to the Jedi and the Republic that she was implanted into the best division of the Strategic Information Service.

 

Everyone thinks that the SIS was bad, it really wasn't, it's just that Imperial Intelligence ate them for breakfast, spat them out and used them as play things. They were that good.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Ee02WLxGk

 

It was involved in every known type of illegal activity; its information networks surpassed even the accuracy and scope of Imperial Intelligence.

 

--Taken from Wookieepedia, source: SWG Trading Card Game

 

No joke I'm afraid :\

 

Firstly, not even sure that the Trading cards are cannon.

 

Second, that's GE era, and not even the good kind because that's the agency pre-BBY.

 

Then of course the fact that an information network isn't an intel agency, they don't have the infiltrators etc that they need, an information network is just gathering info off people who will talk...

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