it was an over nerf collateral.

the sorc bubble used to heal from damage, and could theoriticaly h2f...... think merc "reflect" so they removed that and then removed how much the "auto heal" bastion could heal you... so now its 40%, like original kolto/sin stlth hl.

tbh, unless you're dueling a sorc... don't take that utility.... so many better ones you should be taking (mainly dmg reduction)

it was nerfed because sorcs were super overpowered at the time

it was an over nerf collateral.

 

*obligatory warning about buffing up classes rather than just bringing merc/sniper/mara back down to the rest instead*

nerf merc 70% kolto. Give emersion as an automatic spec/class utility so that sorcs don't have to spec into it.

and all fixed.

kotlo 70% really isnt an issue. all classes when played well have a h2f. ED, mara stlth and hl, stlth classes, sorc phasewalk/offhls, sniper ballstic/roll/passive cover hl (offhls?) and pt... uh.... poor pt....

honestly, if TR was given to pts and removed from mercs, combined with kolto missile and pt kolto, they would have a h2f, and all merc would have is kolto/general offhls and respon safe. the RS (reflect yellow bubble hl) only works on new players, which leaves only their offhls and kolto. in theory offhls combined with a h2f mechanic is too much... but not really, mercs are pretty stationary making it not that hard to pressure them with mobile melee (cough, fury mara)

kotlo 70% really isnt an issue. all classes when played well have a h2f. ED, mara stlth and hl, stlth classes, sorc phasewalk/offhls, sniper ballstic/roll/passive cover hl (offhls?) and pt... uh.... poor pt....

 

honestly, if TR was given to pts and removed from mercs, combined with kolto missile and pt kolto, they would have a h2f, and all merc would have is kolto/general offhls and respon safe. the RS (reflect yellow bubble hl) only works on new players, which leaves only their offhls and kolto. in theory offhls combined with a h2f mechanic is too much... but not really, mercs are pretty stationary making it not that hard to pressure them with mobile melee (cough, fury mara)

Might want to check your fact there bud! Assassin's only heal is on overcharge saber and at best it a fricken stim pack which amounts to two hits! Even if you go the utility route and choose the legendary utility to heal when you cloak it sure as heck don't heal 2 full and it actually cost you everything you have proc'd when you cloak out if you want to get full effect of the ability because you have to stay cloaked for X number of seconds. Plus it pretty much requires you take other utilities to get the most benefit while its not a huge hindrance i.e it's a decent way to spec just not my type of play style.

Might want to check your fact there bud! Assassin only heal is on overcharge saber and at best it a fricken stim pack which amounts to two hits! Even if you go the utility route and choose the legendary utility to heal when you cloak it sure as heck don't heal 2 full and it actually cost you everything you have proc'd when you cloak out if you want to get full effect of the ability because you have to stay cloaked for X number of seconds.

while i disagree with 99% of what seterade says in general... he's counting your stealth out as a htf

while i disagree with 99% of what seterade says in general... he's counting your stealth out as a htf

WHAT! that is just utter ridiculous! First off not everyone specs out the same so not everyone takes the force shroud on cloak which means that a fricken sneeze pops you out stealth. Dotted your popped, small gust of wind your popped! 2nd dam near every time I do manage it i'm still flagged for combat so no heal to full. Lastly healing outside of combat kinda tells you that's it not a heal to full because IT"S OUTSIDE OF COMBAT! (sorry not yelling at you just the absolute absurdity of the notion) But just to prove the point if you accept his ludicrous argument that means that merc's have not one but 2 heal to fulls because they can heal out side of combat too!

WHAT! that is just utter ridiculous! First off not everyone specs out the same so not everyone takes the force shroud on cloak which means that a fricken sneeze pops you out stealth. Dotted your popped, small gust of wind your popped! 2nd dam near every time I do manage it i'm still flagged for combat so no heal to full. Lastly healing outside of combat kinda tells you that's it not a heal to full because IT"S OUTSIDE OF COMBAT! (sorry not yelling at you just the absolute absurdity of the notion) But just to prove the point if you accept his ludicrous argument that means that merc's have not one but 2 heal to fulls because they can heal out side of combat too!

he's also counting a mara's stealth out as a htf, read his post

WHAT! that is just utter ridiculous! First off not everyone specs out the same so not everyone takes the force shroud on cloak which means that a fricken sneeze pops you out stealth. Dotted your popped, small gust of wind your popped! 2nd dam near every time I do manage it i'm still flagged for combat so no heal to full. Lastly healing outside of combat kinda tells you that's it not a heal to full because IT"S OUTSIDE OF COMBAT! (sorry not yelling at you just the absolute absurdity of the notion) But just to prove the point if you accept his ludicrous argument that means that merc's have not one but 2 heal to fulls because they can heal out side of combat too!

Pop shroud and then stealth out?

And mercs cant leave combat once they are in it whereas sins can.

Pop shroud and then stealth out?

 

And mercs cant leave combat once they are in it whereas sins can.

First, anyone able to walk away from a fight will exit combat after some seconds even without a combat stealth.

Second, theres no guarantee that a sin will ever be able to hit shroud and force cammo when under focus, simple beacuse it will melt down while chain stuned (mental devs reworking utils).

The moment pt's get any defensives reworking, sins probably will be the new ones at bottom of solo ranked.

WHAT! that is just utter ridiculous! First off not everyone specs out the same so not everyone takes the force shroud on cloak which means that a fricken sneeze pops you out stealth. Dotted your popped, small gust of wind your popped! 2nd dam near every time I do manage it i'm still flagged for combat so no heal to full. Lastly healing outside of combat kinda tells you that's it not a heal to full because IT"S OUTSIDE OF COMBAT! (sorry not yelling at you just the absolute absurdity of the notion) But just to prove the point if you accept his ludicrous argument that means that merc's have not one but 2 heal to fulls because they can heal out side of combat too!

I believe we had this discussion more than a year ago. An assassin should take the force-shroud upon stealth utility, and if he does not he accepts inferior survivability. Even in the case he doesn't, those who don't spec stealth shroud also shouldn't spec increase shroud duration (they have one less shroud, so they might as well find a better legendary utility), which means their force speed would not slow close enemies, which means there is no reason to be in combat after stealth unless the assassin foolishly stealthed out while having a DoT or target (for hatred sins only) or had a guard on a friend. It is not hard to stealth out and be out of combat, even without the utility, it is just a little more circumstantial. [btw, I also many times see noob assassins try to stealth out in the middle of a ranged AoE such as suppressive fire. Even with shroud, they are normally vulnerable to it, so it is absolutely ineffective. Hope you aren't one of them]

All that being said, while I also think that assassin's stealth + seethe is more of a H2F than merc <somehow get out of combat while focus damaged in a dire situation (gl with that, it is unlikely)> + r&r, I agree it is still a few levels below other H2F such as merc's reflect and kolto, and even a little lower than sorc's bubble. Why? Because it can't be used in combat. A H2F is measured by 3 categories: The time you can spend nearly or completely unkillable, how hard is it for the enemies to neglect you your H2F, and what can you do during that time. In which case:

Merc's reflect and kolto overload: for the full duration of the ability you are virtually unkillable (yes, kolto overload too, if used correctly and not foolishly too late), it is absolutely uninteruptable by any means (By the end of the duration, the reflecting merc will have his HP equal or greater to what it was before he triggered it, and by the end of kolto's duration, the merc will have 70% HP, very close to it, or slightly more if he chose to heal himself a little), and the merc can deal damage normally and undisturbed as if he wasn't using a DCD. As a bonus: Both DCDs are triggerable in any situation, including while stunned. Objective specific: can be used while carrying a huttball or guarding an OPG node.

Jugg's ED: for the duration you are unkillable, but the duration is shortened if people really try and can even go entirely out in less than 3 seconds. If players choose to ignore the jugg for the meantime, they can prevent his healing completely, and the jugg can fight normally while it is on. The jugg can also trigger it while stunned. As a H2F it rates higher than sorc's barrier, but it sucks compared to it as an anti-focus, or a DCD in general. Objective specific: can be used while carrying a huttball or guarding an OPG node.

Sorc's barrier: for the full duration of the ability you are unkillable, and if you choose to spend force on it, you can also be very close to fully healed by the end of the extra shield. It can't be interrupted by conventional means (though the healing phase can be by stunning as soon as the bubble switches to the aftereffect), but it can be interrupted by necessity, such as you capping the node the sorc is shielded next to, or the target of the sorc (healer) nearing death. The sorc can do nothing while shielded. Also triggerable while stunned and can function as a breaker, which almost compensates for the absolute lack of mobility it demands to be effective, but it is still far below merc's stuff. Objective specific: can be used while guarding an OPG node but not while carrying a huttball.

Stealth out and H2F: Requires skill in order to function properly (much more than merc's stuff which requires almost no skill, and ED or barrier which do require some skill for best efficiency, but still less than proper stealth), and requires LoS unless you wish to completely abandon the area, increasing the wasted time and the time it would take you to go back afterwards, which means quite some time in which you are useless). The "duration" is undefined because it is the time between the stealth out and the end of the recovery cast, but for that "duration" it is interruptable easily if an enemy simply spots and attacks you before you are fully (or nearly fully) recovered. [by the way, at least with headphones, I can usually hear the meditation of a sage or the r&r noises of the agent or smuggler (seethe is by far more subtle), give a quick spin to my character to determine the exact direction it comes from, and find the stealther in around 3 secs. He usually has 40% at that point, which means I can still quite easily kill him. This method is really not hard and you can train with your friends to identify the direction and location of people doing so] You can't do anything useful numberwise until the end of that indefinite duration, because it would put you in combat, (btw it also means you are "interuptable" by objective captures just as sorcs are. Specifically in OPG, it is even one step further: if you are a sole guard, this technique will absolutely result in enemy capture). In addition to all that, unless your opponents are idiots, you would need to run far away in order to H2F effectively, which means you lose whatever node you were guarding in whatever game.

So as you can easily see, stealth and recover could be a good H2F if all H2F meant was the ability to abandon everything and get full HP. But it is not. It is also about DOING something in that 2nd life you got, preferably NOT fixing a mess you got your team into in order to get this second life. So stealth+recover is NOT a good or even considerable H2F

kotlo 70% really isnt an issue. all classes when played well have a h2f. ED, mara stlth and hl, stlth classes, sorc phasewalk/offhls, sniper ballstic/roll/passive cover hl (offhls?) and pt... uh.... poor pt....

 

honestly, if TR was given to pts and removed from mercs, combined with kolto missile and pt kolto, they would have a h2f, and all merc would have is kolto/general offhls and respon safe. the RS (reflect yellow bubble hl) only works on new players, which leaves only their offhls and kolto. in theory offhls combined with a h2f mechanic is too much... but not really, mercs are pretty stationary making it not that hard to pressure them with mobile melee (cough, fury mara)

This is so very wrong. On so many different levels.

1)jugg is the only class s a similar htf

2) mara cloak and htf is not designed this way and never happens in any scenario where the other team is half way competent...

3) outa combat htf is not the same as htf from CDs because outa combat regen takes time where ur team is 1 man down.

4) sorc htf is from their own offheals. Technically a merc has the same power to htf from offheals.

5) there is no way that ballistic heal+roll heal+cover heal=htf. Thats really weak reasoning. Ballistic is 30%, roll is 10%, cover heal (if your stupid enough to take it) is 1% each 5 seconds. This in no way equals a htf

Your problem is you look at merc CDs and say.... kolto+reflect+enegy shield htf is all they have. Which is far from the truth. For some reason nobody remembers the small defensives.... my guess, caus now that they have big OP cds that require less brain power.

Mercs have a spammable 6 seconx roots. They have EXTREME MOBILITY. The only thing they need to cast is tracer missle. They have a all direction knockback... dont even need to face the target. They have 30 meter range. They have slow on blazing bolts. They have offheals. They have rocket out. They have enet. They have cleanse.

CDs that other classes would kill for...

This is so very wrong. On so many different levels.

 

1)jugg is the only class s a similar htf

2) mara cloak and htf is not designed this way and never happens in any scenario where the other team is half way competent...

3) outa combat htf is not the same as htf from CDs because outa combat regen takes time where ur team is 1 man down.

4) sorc htf is from their own offheals. Technically a merc has the same power to htf from offheals.

5) there is no way that ballistic heal+roll heal+cover heal=htf. Thats really weak reasoning. Ballistic is 30%, roll is 10%, cover heal (if your stupid enough to take it) is 1% each 5 seconds. This in no way equals a htf

 

Your problem is you look at merc CDs and say.... kolto+reflect+enegy shield htf is all they have. Which is far from the truth. For some reason nobody remembers the small defensives.... my guess, caus now that they have big OP cds that require less brain power.

 

Mercs have a spammable 6 seconx roots. They have EXTREME MOBILITY. The only thing they need to cast is tracer missle. They have a all direction knockback... dont even need to face the target. They have 30 meter range. They have slow on blazing bolts. They have offheals. They have rocket out. They have enet. They have cleanse.

 

CDs that other classes would kill for...

very true... however.

4 second missile root every 10 seconds is mirrored by so many abilitys. operative/sniper 4 second root, ravage, overload, in fact the only class that doesnt have a reliable root is pt (on a side note, you can spec into a rooting pull and pyro rocket punch will root you for 2 seconds.. but pyro is generaly irrelevant and there are must have utilitys that are better in heroic/legendary for pt)

do they have a ranged, chaanneled slow? yes.. but its not that different from using your class slow and free casting on them. in fact, merc is tied into just using BB during its effect, and with the nerf, it doesnt hurt half as much as it used to.

cover hl with a sniper, if you look at any sniper in solos or regs youll see the tell tale green buff. good players and bads alike. would they take it in granked? maybe not, but keep in mind when you can count on tnk and heals being there to watch your back you tend to take more offencive utility over defencive.

as for "how much of a h2f is it" remember that 1, a mercs adren can be 3v1 tunneled through to death, even during its high speed rate. and 2, its only grants 75% hp, not heal to full. and yes, a sniper will obtain a "50%" heal from his cds, which since a merc should use it at about 25% to make the speed rate occur in time it is about 50%.

my only point is what is the cheapest easiest way for merc to be nerfed without reworking the class and waiting for 6.0 because bioware doesnt have the funding or staff to rework class mid expansion.

You're missing the point. All those smaller CDs are fomparavor to other classes, however 70% kolto ontop of potentially a 30 second energy shield/trauma regulators, ontop of reflect, ontop of offheals, ontop of all of the smaller CDS makes the class overtuned. It's not 1 ability that makes the class OP as in the case of mara RA.

However the solution is really not that difficult to find. Nerf kolto to 30%. Good mercs wont get killed through it, while bad mercs who pop kolto sub 10% will get killed through it.

You're missing the point. All those smaller CDs are fomparavor to other classes, however 70% kolto ontop of potentially a 30 second energy shield/trauma regulators, ontop of reflect, ontop of offheals, ontop of all of the smaller CDS makes the class overtuned. It's not 1 ability that makes the class OP as in the case of mara RA.

 

However the solution is really not that difficult to find. Nerf kolto to 30%. Good mercs wont get killed through it, while bad mercs who pop kolto sub 10% will get killed through it.

Newsflash: Mercs dps as been tone down significantly.

If you cannot 1v1 a Merc while being in your Op then you need to reshape your skills, back to Operative 101. The following classes can easily tunnel a Merc; Operatives, Juggs, Snipers, and Marauders. Problem is that you wanna take on Mercs with your PT.. well, guess what?? in the current stage PT cannot even 1v1 R2-D2.

Yes our survivability still viable, and Kolto is not at 70% but at 60%, and personally what I think they need to Nerf is "Trade Win" once they nerf it to 30% bad players wont be able to still rewards for Gold tier anymore.

However to be fair with your point of view; The problem you been encountering is The system allowing too many of the same class to queue. Any class that is allow to group in Rank or Urank would do the trick. Their abilities multiply and if they choose to tunnel you then you're done. I guarantee you there is no such thing as single handle two players unless you get help from your teammates, and based on what I been reading from your previous post.. It seen you been getting a bad rap for teammates.. Well buddy, welcome to the club, you and everyone else who put his trust on the queue system will suffer the same faith.

My suggestion is wait for the new changes; I guarantee you wont run into the same troubles as you're right now, for the sake of all of us.. Everyone is tired of the current state.

You're missing the point. All those smaller CDs are fomparavor to other classes, however 70% kolto ontop of potentially a 30 second energy shield/trauma regulators, ontop of reflect, ontop of offheals, ontop of all of the smaller CDS makes the class overtuned. It's not 1 ability that makes the class OP as in the case of mara RA.

 

However the solution is really not that difficult to find. Nerf kolto to 30%. Good mercs wont get killed through it, while bad mercs who pop kolto sub 10% will get killed through it.

there is no disagreement about whether they're currently balanced. my suggestion was remove trauma regulater from merc entirly and give it to pt.

can you honestly say kolto would be "OP" without trauma regulators stacking on it?

and, would giving trauma regulators to pt be the slight adjustment they need to be viable?

there is no disagreement about whether they're currently balanced. my suggestion was remove trauma regulater from merc entirly and give it to pt.

 

can you honestly say kolto would be "OP" without trauma regulators stacking on it?

 

and, would giving trauma regulators to pt be the slight adjustment they need to be viable?

PTs are already viable in 4s, giving them trauma regulators risks over doing it. giving them a fast healing kolto (I'm not a fan of the high threshold AND fast healing though) helps them in solo ranked and 8s where they're terrible, without having much impact on 4s where they're at least workable already

and of course the biggest buff to PT is finishing what they started and nerfing merc/mara/sniper more because they undernerfed them

^

And also.... trauma regulators is intended so that it comes up multiple times. That's why its coupled with the utility for reduced CD on energy shield. Theres no pt in the world that is going to get 2 energy shields before dying, unless they are in 4s, in which case (like doc said) they are already very strong.

but thats just it, isnt it. on pt, TR wouldnt be broken. most of the time they would get 1 tr in a life, so if you add a 35% tr, 35% kolt and 21% kolto missile, pt has in one life a 91% hl. and yes, left neglected it will come back, but basic arena strats say tunnel a person till all dcds are done. (this is not including hard swap tactics/cleave. its simple 4dps v matchs.)

also, you need to think about the other specs. ppyro gets a reduced cd on kolto, meaning super kolto ever 45 seconds.. that doesnt even get into how it will affect pt tnk useage

but thats just it, isnt it. on pt, TR wouldnt be broken. most of the time they would get 1 tr in a life, so if you add a 35% tr, 35% kolt and 21% kolto missile, pt has in one life a 91% hl. and yes, left neglected it will come back, but basic arena strats say tunnel a person till all dcds are done.

imagine triple pt again but now three of them have a 40-50k heal every 50 seconds or so

edit: tank only 2 minutes actually

the argument is just that it would probably be busted in 4s, or with a tank and a healer generally

 

imagine triple pt again but now three of them have a 40-50k heal every 50 seconds or so

 

edit: tank only 2 minutes actually

pyro too, only ap has reduced cd on ES

I don't want to derail this thread any further so I will just say that 5.0 made mercs, snipers, and maras so dumb that you literally cannot have a balance discussion without keeping this fact in mind. We have to imagine what classes would actually need a buff if these ones ever get fixed

the only thing worse than this meta is a meta where there are like 5 or 6 classes that are way too hard to kill

pyro too, only ap has reduced cd on ES

pyro is a lost cause as far as I'm concerned lol

Pop shroud and then stealth out?

 

And mercs cant leave combat once they are in it whereas sins can.

NOT always the case! If some popped a taunt you stay in combat, if your dotted you stay in combat and probably due to biowares buggy %$# system who knows what other reason why you STAY in combat cloaking does not always take one outa combat. This is especially true if you didn't take certain utilities. Regardless healing outside of combat doesn't constitute a H2F because it is OUTA COMBAT! Just accept your Class breaks trinity it's why you and everyone else plays it! Ez rotation huge DPS and dying far less than glass cannon specs!

Just a minor comment on no ability to remove ones self from combat. Run far enough away you'll break combat! What sound ridiculous so is the idea of healing outa combat being a heal to full because one has to successfully cloak then find a hiding spot, hope to hell combat is broke and then heal up mean while your opponent lets say you for instances and no dots on you with standing and since combat was broken by me via cloak can now heal to full thereby gaining two heal to fulls!