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• When the game launched, and leading up to the game, the selling point, the big hook for this game was STORY. Your own story where YOU were the hero. Now, to some degree, you could see that as being fulfilled in the class quests 1-50. However, there is a problem. A number of the class quests leave quite a few loose ends (Sith Warrior and Imperial Agent come immediately to mind), and although Makeb really was a lot of fun, the throwaway lines there to your class story feel cheap, worthless, throwaway in a lame effort to placate story fans, and actually a bit of a slap in the face to those who got the game for the story and wanted to see how their story integrated with Makeb.
  

 

Love it, 5 star post!

There's a flaw with your thinking. That being the devs have already stated the CM team and the content team are two distinctly separate teams, and the CM team in no way affects the timeline on what the content team can do.

Yes 2 different teams which require pay still. If there was no CM and still a sub based game, then they wouldn't be paying a team to do fluff stuff and could pay more game developers for content and things of that nature. So the man power is shorter now due to this.

The thing to keep in mind, is that they probably are actually very far along on the dev cycle on the next planet, maybe the next TWO, so its entirely possible that even if we did sway them, we likely wouldn't see changes until 3 story planets out.

 

Its something to keep in mind and keep perspective on, but I'd wait if it meant the return of class stories in some form, even as a part of the greater planetary story.

 

If nothing else, this thread is a call for their writers to step up their game as well, in addition to asking for a return of class stories in some form.

You make a good point, we don't really know how far they've gotten in regards to the next planets they release. But, in any case, even if they are that far along, I'd hope that they could add this kind of class-specific stuff to every planet following those.

Anyway, like I said earlier, hopefully a dev does take note of all this and attempts to get a dialogue going, however long that may take. (hopefully sooner than later)

Yes 2 different teams which require pay still. If there was no CM and still a sub based game, then they wouldn't be paying a team to do fluff stuff and could pay more game developers for content and things of that nature. So the man power is shorter now due to this.

The man-power isn't shorter by necessity, just by choice. It's well documented that the move to F2P increased, rather than decreased, their profit margin. They're making a lot of money: the issue is where (and on what) they invest it.

This is why I think the OP has an excellent point with this thread. If we can discuss things like the content of cartel packs with the developers, we can discuss what we want from the game itself, and what they're willing to give us.

(And what we're willing to give them back in return. The cold calculus of profit.)

The man-power isn't shorter by necessity, just by choice. It's well documented that the move to F2P increased, rather than decreased, their profit margin. They're making a lot of money: the issue is where (and on what) they invest it.

 

 

This is why I think the OP has an excellent point with this thread. If we can discuss things like the content of cartel packs with the developers, we can discuss what we want from the game itself, and what they're willing to give us.

 

(And what we're willing to give them back in return. The cold calculus of profit.)

Correct. And if we can show them (in a non-confrontational manner) that there is still enough of a demand for class stories in some form, then perhaps that will change their thinking on how they approach it (and for what its worth, I've seen a lot of people on the forums wanting class quests back, but I think the volume remains an unknown quantity until you see a number of different voices in a singular thread all pulling the rope in the same direction on a topic, aka class stories in this case.

The Emperor's VOICE is dead. He is searching for a replacement, which is why he is out of commission at the moment and using his hands to communicate his will with the Wrath. That was what were in the emails.

 

The VOICE is what was killed at the end of the Jedi Knight Storyline, NOT the emperor himself as the Knight was led to believe.

Actually it was confirmed by Hall Hood, the lead writer of the game and the lead writer of the JK story, that the Knight does infact destroy the Emperor's body. It was in an interview with Mos Eisley Radio before Makeb was released

Actually it was confirmed by Hall Hood, the lead writer of the game and the lead writer of the JK story, that the Knight does infact destroy the Emperor's body. It was in an interview with Mos Eisley Radio before Makeb was released

Link?

The man-power isn't shorter by necessity, just by choice. It's well documented that the move to F2P increased, rather than decreased, their profit margin. They're making a lot of money: the issue is where (and on what) they invest it.

 

 

This is why I think the OP has an excellent point with this thread. If we can discuss things like the content of cartel packs with the developers, we can discuss what we want from the game itself, and what they're willing to give us.

 

(And what we're willing to give them back in return. The cold calculus of profit.)

It is actually shorter by necessity because of money. They can't afford to keep extra devs AND add a whole new team for the CM. The whole reason going f2p was because they needed more money and subs weren't enough due to cancellations. You don't have to spend that extra money for CM developers then you have that extra money to add in-game developers. Adding extra developers allows you to do a lot more things like maybe keep up with class stories. You already have to keep up with content in general via Operations, events, pvp stuff, balancing classes, etc. Simply not tons of time left for other things which requires man power.

It is actually shorter by necessity because of money. They can't afford to keep extra devs AND add a whole new team for the CM. The whole reason going f2p was because they needed more money and subs weren't enough due to cancellations. You don't have to spend that extra money for CM developers then you have that extra money to add in-game developers. Adding extra developers allows you to do a lot more things like maybe keep up with class stories. You already have to keep up with content in general via Operations, events, pvp stuff, balancing classes, etc. Simply not tons of time left for other things which requires man power.

Then let the devs tell us that. For the longest time, people swore stories weren't being continued because of Voice Over cost. Cue SWTOR devs, who said, no, thats not the case.

So while what you said does make some sense, that may not reflect the development reality that is in the Bioware walls, which is why I cautioned you not to speak for them.

Then let the devs tell us that. For the longest time, people swore stories weren't being continued because of Voice Over cost. Cue SWTOR devs, who said, no, thats not the case.

 

So while what you said does make some sense, that may not reflect the development reality that is in the Bioware walls, which is why I cautioned you not to speak for them.

This. ^^

You know, I'm not sure why (a vocal few) people are surprised SO many players are unhappy with EA/Bioware's decision to discontinue releasing class story. EA/Bioware are the ones that set the bar as high as they did to draw customers. Now, coming up on the 2 year mark, when players were reasonably expecting enough time had passed for their "saga" to be continued, EA/Bioware basically says "Nah...yeah all those things were promised at launch regarding story? Well you're not getting them. But here's some neat new dye-able armor! Thank's for subbing..."

O_o

Requesting a little clarity from the Developers on this matter is not unreasonable. "Your" personal story was one of the lynchpins of the game. Never mind the fact that many of the class stories have loose ends yet to be tied up. So yeah, people are upset that what we are left with is more Makebs and the Cartel Market.

* * *

i remember when i realized they were not going to continue class stories. in an interview with a producer, teh producer said "we are concentrating on group stories," which meant no class stories. then at the meet and greet i asked about class stories and they said "many of the class stories have already been closed"

they will continue to viel their inability to generate the kind of meaningful RPG story branches, bioware became popular for, by saying they are concentrating on group/galactic storylines of epic proportion. they will say that the war is the story and they are bringing everyone into the fold by doing it this way... but its just a cop out as far as im concerned

Then let the devs tell us that. For the longest time, people swore stories weren't being continued because of Voice Over cost. Cue SWTOR devs, who said, no, thats not the case.

 

So while what you said does make some sense, that may not reflect the development reality that is in the Bioware walls, which is why I cautioned you not to speak for them.

They never said that. EVER. They never said VO won't continue because of VO cost. STOP MAKING THINGS UP.

The reason we don't see them is all the OTHER work that goes into that. Very expensive work like mapping, environments, details, choices, paths, etc.

They never said that. EVER. They never said VO won't continue because of VO cost. STOP MAKING THINGS UP.

 

 

 

The reason we don't see them is all the OTHER work that goes into that. Very expensive work like mapping, environments, details, choices, paths, etc.

Reading is a skill Arkerus.

I said players were saying there won't be more class stories because of voiceover costs, and then said the devs came in and corrected the players and told them voice over cost wasn't the prohibitive thing preventing that, and that voiceovers are already factored into the budget going forward.

Did I really need to reiterate that? I don't need to stop making things up, you need to learn to read, dude.

Reading is a skill Arkerus.

 

I said players were saying there won't be more class stories because of voiceover costs, and then said the devs came in and corrected the players and told them voice over cost wasn't the prohibitive thing preventing that, and that voiceovers are already factored into the budget going forward.

 

Did I really need to reiterate that? I don't need to stop making things up, you need to learn to read, dude.

"We were led to believe."

"We" being the players. "led to believe" - guided by some force in believing something.

That means someone led you to believe through official outlets. If you believed opinions coming from these forums...you need to learn to...educate yourself. And if you did believe what random people were saying then YOU are to blame. It takes 30 second to google typical VO costs. I did that on day one and I knew that was not the huge problem area in creating more class content.

I need to learn to read...sure bud.

Link?

This is the TORWars link (it wasn't Mos Eisley Radio like I had originally stated). But it appears the podcast is not available at the moment. But here is a quote from one of the comments below expressing his confusion about Hood's confirmation of the Emperor's body destroyed

http://torwars.com/torwars-podcast-98-our-interview-with-biowares-hall-hood/

"Spoilers ahead….

Having played both the Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior stories I’m a bit confused at his explanation of what happened to the Emperor. I was under the impression his actual body wasn’t killed, the body of the Emperor’s voice was killed. The Emperor himself has been secluded in some unknown place. Anyone else thrown off by his comments?"

"We were led to believe."

 

"We" being the players. "led to believe" - guided by some force in believing something.

That means someone led you to believe through official outlets. If you believed opinions coming from these forums...you need to learn to...educate yourself. And if you did believe what random people were saying then YOU are to blame. It takes 30 second to google typical VO costs. I did that on day one and I knew that was not the huge problem area in creating more class content.

 

I need to learn to read...sure bud.

Umm... are you in the right thread? No one said "we were led to believe" anything.

ZH was stating that a number of players were (and still are) vocally assuming that VO costs are an issue. That is a fact (the players spreading incorrect assumptions -- you see it come up constantly in these "why no more story" threads). He then stated that BW has already refuted this. That is also true. You are on the same side of the argument.

Going on...

TL;DR summary: I, too, would like to see new class content in some form, even if it's single quests in the planetary arcs, as some have suggested. I would love to see some discussion from the devs about the why's and why not's of future class content.

Longer commentary: Let's talk about Makeb and "group content" for a moment. Someone(s) on the petition mentioned that "group content" was where things were heading now.

I leveled my main (Mercenary) with a partner (Operative). We did the planetary quests together, bonus series, flashpoints, all that -- but in defining our characters, we always had our own class stories to fall back on (and to share). We're both fans of Bioware storytelling, and have spent plenty of time dissecting our class stories and mulling over the choices we made and the paths we took.

When Makeb was released, when I understood the scope of the story, I told my partner that I wanted to do the storyline by myself. Why? Because this was not a simple supplement to my class story anymore -- it was the only way to advance my character's story and career that I was going to get on this planet. I wanted the choices made to be hers, not fought over by dice roll. My partner was sort of put off at first, but later agreed that it had been a good idea to play separately, because he was analyzing his choices carefully, same as we would have in a class story.

In other words, in the absence of a true class story, we tried to make Makeb into one. That may fall flat if/when we repeat the Empire side again (I know I will on other characters; I don't know about my partner), but still... When I needed to bring my Jugg tank to a guild run of Toborro's Courtyard, a group of us rushed through the Imp introduction quest. I was annoyed to have to share this content, to not be able to shape the beginning of my Warrior's tale on Makeb as I wanted (because he'll surely be running the rest alone). Apparently, I don't want to participate in "group" story content in the absence of class story content. I doubt I'm completely alone in that.

"Avengers-style storytelling"? Okay, that's cool. But most of the Avengers had/have their own movies (or comic books, if we're staying in the printed realm), too -- and not just as a prelude to their joining the Avengers.

On another tangent: I understand the argument of "but your character is the best/gone rogue/Council member, etc., there's nowhere else to go" -- really, I do -- but, at least on the Empire side, there are always going to be new challenges. Others have mentioned the Sith Warrior's and Agent's quandaries already. Surely the BH has challengers or rivals? I'm sure the Inquisitor's position on the Council is tenuous (aren't they all, really); there could be all kinds of challenges thrown at them from other Council members or ambitious up-and-comers. There are places to go with these storylines, IMO, that don't require making the characters bigger-er and better-er or elevating them to demigod status.

Umm... are you in the right thread? No one said "we were led to believe" anything.

 

ZH was stating that a number of players were (and still are) vocally assuming that VO costs are an issue. That is a fact (the players spreading incorrect assumptions -- you see it come up constantly in these "why no more story" threads). He then stated that BW has already refuted this. That is also true. You are on the same side of the argument.

 

 

Going on...

 

TL;DR summary: I, too, would like to see new class content in some form, even if it's single quests in the planetary arcs, as some have suggested. I would love to see some discussion from the devs about the why's and why not's of future class content.

 

Longer commentary: Let's talk about Makeb and "group content" for a moment. Someone(s) on the petition mentioned that "group content" was where things were heading now.

 

I leveled my main (Mercenary) with a partner (Operative). We did the planetary quests together, bonus series, flashpoints, all that -- but in defining our characters, we always had our own class stories to fall back on (and to share). We're both fans of Bioware storytelling, and have spent plenty of time dissecting our class stories and mulling over the choices we made and the paths we took.

 

When Makeb was released, when I understood the scope of the story, I told my partner that I wanted to do the storyline by myself. Why? Because this was not a simple supplement to my class story anymore -- it was the only way to advance my character's story and career that I was going to get on this planet. I wanted the choices made to be hers, not fought over by dice roll. My partner was sort of put off at first, but later agreed that it had been a good idea to play separately, because he was analyzing his choices carefully, same as we would have in a class story.

 

In other words, in the absence of a true class story, we tried to make Makeb into one. That may fall flat if/when we repeat the Empire side again (I know I will on other characters; I don't know about my partner), but still... When I needed to bring my Jugg tank to a guild run of Toborro's Courtyard, a group of us rushed through the Imp introduction quest. I was annoyed to have to share this content, to not be able to shape the beginning of my Warrior's tale on Makeb as I wanted (because he'll surely be running the rest alone). Apparently, I don't want to participate in "group" story content in the absence of class story content. I doubt I'm completely alone in that.

 

"Avengers-style storytelling"? Okay, that's cool. But most of the Avengers had/have their own movies (or comic books, if we're staying in the printed realm), too -- and not just as a prelude to their joining the Avengers.

 

On another tangent: I understand the argument of "but your character is the best/gone rogue/Council member, etc., there's nowhere else to go" -- really, I do -- but, at least on the Empire side, there are always going to be new challenges. Others have mentioned the Sith Warrior's and Agent's quandaries already. Surely the BH has challengers or rivals? I'm sure the Inquisitor's position on the Council is tenuous (aren't they all, really); there could be all kinds of challenges thrown at them from other Council members or ambitious up-and-comers. There are places to go with these storylines, IMO, that don't require making the characters bigger-er and better-er or elevating them to demigod status.

Arkerus just feels like he needs to throw his weight around. He does need to learn to read. Now its just ego-soothing on his part.

Anyway, I agree with your point that a lot of the class stories have room to grow, and I think they can be accomplished within the confines of a greater overall planetary story with some class story elements.

The one thing I do have a very hard time with is continuing companion stories. There are just so many, and all of them are indeed close-ended, that I just don't see the value in developing those, as cool as they are, over other story content - I do think however going forward any new companions you unlock (latest being Treek) should have to live up to those standards in terms of companion advancement along with the occasional quest.

I think it is entirely possible for them to do Class Stories again. Not at the level of the original 3 chapters, but they can do *something*. As odd as it may seem to some of us, they may not be getting the message strong enough that people really want it. We might think that because there are several people that make threads about this every now and then that they get that message as strongly as we feel, but their metrics may say otherwise.

Like the print screen not working thing. They say hardly anyone ever reports that as a bug - I'm so sure that everyone has a problem with it but they just don't care enough to report it, but I can't prove that.

And also, I've learned that not all people do. Lots of people I talk to in game declare that they spacebar through all of it. Then there was the guyI had a conversation with at the Cantina event that told me with great enthusiasm how Makeb's dual faction storyline was exactly what he always wanted out of the game, and not class stories.

When Makeb was released, when I understood the scope of the story, I told my partner that I wanted to do the storyline by myself. Why? Because this was not a simple supplement to my class story anymore -- it was the only way to advance my character's story and career that I was going to get on this planet. I wanted the choices made to be hers, not fought over by dice roll.

I think that's a really good point. The first time I ran Black Talon solo to top off some alignment points, I was amazed at how much more the story shone through compared to running it with a group. The consistency of the choices, and the NPC reactions and other consequences, really added up to a classic Bioware experience. And that's what I'm here for.

Ever since then, I've started space-barring flashpoints when I first run them in groups, because I want as little spoilage as possible before my canon, story, solo run of them (once I've leveled up enough).

There are fun aspects to group play, but for me, story isn't one of them. Nor are they enough to keep me subbed. I'm here for the stories, and for me grouping and stories really don't mix.

Class-specific quests are not anywhere near the same as a 'Yo! I heard about you, dude! You're the winner of the Great Hunt! Epic! I need you to do this generic task that I could have a Sith or agent do. Later!" "Class-based content" in planetary questlines is quarter-a**ed. Not even half-a**ed. It's cheaper for sure, and the quality of the experience reflects that.

It's not an Avenger-style set up. It's a WoW style set up - you're a generic hero of the Republic/Empire off doing the same damn thing as every other class. Your role in the conflict has been reduced to generic grunt.

Whereas I had been looking forward to playing this game going forward, seeing what else was coming, how the stories played out, at this point I'm doing a lot of looking around at what else is out there, where my friends are going (cause they're leaving by the boatload lately), and generally making plans for gaming after swtor.

Reason I'm still here? A couple classes I have left, a small handful of things I wanted to get done in terms of ops, and a few friends who are still here. Get that? One of the things keeping me here, keeping money going to BW, is the class quests, and with those I'll be going to 50 and stopping because really I don't need to see Makeb yet again.

The one thing I do have a very hard time with is continuing companion stories. There are just so many, and all of them are indeed close-ended, that I just don't see the value in developing those, as cool as they are, over other story content - I do think however going forward any new companions you unlock (latest being Treek) should have to live up to those standards in terms of companion advancement along with the occasional quest.

Agreed -- not that I wouldn't love more convos with my crew, but most of their storylines were tied off with neat little bows, and it'd feel awkward picking up again. I *would* like to see more companion input in story quests, but I think these were pretty much limited to class story material in the past, and would probably remain that way, unfortunately. (20+ potential companion reactions to a faction story point? I'd love it, but it seems unlikely... Then again, they DID go and give all the companions unique barks relating to different locations on Makeb, so...)

I think that's a really good point. The first time I ran Black Talon solo to top off some alignment points, I was amazed at how much more the story shone through compared to running it with a group. The consistency of the choices, and the NPC reactions and other consequences, really added up to a classic Bioware experience. And that's what I'm here for.

Same here. It was, kinda-sorta indirectly, my love of Dragon Age: Origins that led me here. Not Star Wars (I was never really a big fan), not KotOR, which I never finished, but another Bioware story where I played the story I wanted to tell.

(Did you know that if you solo the False Emperor, you get a few tidbits of unique dialogue with Malgus? It felt incredibly epic and completely appropriate for my SW to take him on with only Quinn for backup.)

When Makeb was released, when I understood the scope of the story, I told my partner that I wanted to do the storyline by myself. Why? Because this was not a simple supplement to my class story anymore -- it was the only way to advance my character's story and career that I was going to get on this planet. I wanted the choices made to be hers, not fought over by dice roll. My partner was sort of put off at first, but later agreed that it had been a good idea to play separately, because he was analyzing his choices carefully, same as we would have in a class story.

 

In other words, in the absence of a true class story, we tried to make Makeb into one

I was the same way. I did the combat parts of the quests in a group with my guildes when it launched, but I exited out of the conversations and did them msyelf because I did not want other people making decisions for me. That's totally fine in repeatable content or just simple boring fetch content, but if we can't make decisions for ourselves to develop our characters in this game THERE IS NO POINT. Might as well not give us decisions at all.

It's also why I have a hard time going through other characters on Makeb. It's not just because I've been through the content, It just reminds me that the story isn't unique to my character. (I know they're not *really* unique, but I like to play the stories through with the idea that they are).