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Premades are ruining your little expansion


arkanone

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This is largely a problem due to this being early access and only subscribers are allowed. With such a limited player pool matchmaking issues crop up, but I imagine when GSF is fully released in February and all account types are granted access this won't be a problem.

 

Not that they shouldn't have coding in place to keep matchmaker from pitting premades against pugs after the full release mind you.

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If you're losing to premades, make your own. Invite a few names you recognize, kick it on vent, ask them if they want to start a GSF guild. Reach out to people and they'll respond - if it worked for me, it can work for anyone. If you're serious about GSF, roll an alt on Pot5 (or transfer, but money). There's several guilds here that play seriously for fun.
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Came back to TOR after bout 6 months, played for about 4 h last evening = Unbalanced teams, about 20 games only 2 wins. How it is not a beta if MM is not working at all ?, I came back for star fighter and i don't think im gone stay till my sub will expire...
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It depends on what time you play. Some hours, I get a pop every two or three minutes, and sometimes it takes fifteen or so minutes.

 

I remember when GSF first started you would get pops every few minutes after a match would start. Now no matter what time of day on my server it can be 20 minutes or more between the matchs. Probally one contributing factor is the holidays and another people got tired of seeing the same groups on the other side. I know myself have cut down the amount of matchs that I play significantly. I still carry about a 62% win rate even tho a few of my losses came from the match ending the second it should of started because not enough players qued in.

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Unfortunately, long term I think that means a lot of the players will "go home". This is not a good thing.

 

When you're up against a premade, you really can't do anything. You're burning everything on engines/shields and wind up being an easy target.

 

I usually look for other teammates before I go into an engagement but when gunships are one-shotting everybody on your team, there's nothing you can do but die. When you try to engage the gunships they make a bee-line back to their capital ship and you wind up either being turret fodder or getting sniped when you back off.

 

What a mess.

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Came back to TOR after bout 6 months, played for about 4 h last evening = Unbalanced teams, about 20 games only 2 wins. How it is not a beta if MM is not working at all ?

 

When you have the same pool of 10 good players queueing on one side, and the same pool of 10 bad players queueing on the other, there isn't much a matchmaking can do to stop unbalanced matches save not start any matches at all...

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I certainly understand the frustration, but I don't think the problem is solely premades. Part of the problem is lack of team work. On my server the imps simply do not work as a team, and as a result lose 4 out of 5 matches. The problem is that they're always chasing kill count an damage. So they take a node, and within 1 minute fly off looking for enemies. Then a republic toon swoops in and caps the satellite. Once the republic gets 2 or 3 satellites, they stop pushing and just let the imps come to them. They are at a satellite with 2 or 3 other defenders plus multiple turrets. They shoot down an imperial player, who respawns and flies right back into the battle. So they're flying in 1 or 2 at a time into a satellite where the republic has 2-3 turrets and 2-4 defenders.

 

I can't speak for other servers, but on Shadowlands this happens very, very often. What players need to understand is that if you hold two nodes there's no need to go flying off--sit at the satellite and defend. The enemy WILL come to you, and they will be at a disadvantage. But I see it all the time when I fly on imp side: 3 or 4 of us cap a node, a republic scout skims by and everyone but me goes chasing all the way across the map. So I'm alone at the node and 20 seconds later 3 or 4 enemies come in. Node goes red, they stay withing 5-10k of it, turrets come up, and now the farming session has begun.

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I can't speak for other servers, but on Shadowlands this happens very, very often. What players need to understand is that if you hold two nodes there's no need to go flying off--sit at the satellite and defend. The enemy WILL come to you, and they will be at a disadvantage.

Completely agree ... with one exception.

 

Republic pilots on my server love Gunships (I could go into debate why, but it would be very subjective and likely end with forum infractions for me). Matches with 4+ Pub Gunships aren't exception, they are the norm. So there you have to fly off after them - and since the Republic "heroes" (sorry, I couldn't hold myself) play nothing but Gunships and probably even queue as group (since it's always the same names) one or two scouts for the task isn't enough.

 

Which raises another point, although more relevant for the Gunship threads - in my opinion the no.1 problem with Gunships isn't Bypass or Ion Railgun, but the amount of them in the match.

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I don't even think 'premades' are the primary, root cause of blowouts. Put a couple really good players on one team, a couple really bad players on the other, and the match isn't going to be remotely competitive regardless of whether one team has a premade or is in voicechat or whatever.
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So The "Premade" thread, was already posted earlier, I don't see how another one will do anything.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=703975&page=4

 

I'll repeat what I said on Page 4:

 

Yea? And I've had nights like then in every PVP MMO game I've played. . . They are all premades. When you throw in the fact that you might have a abundance of new players (And maybe Afkers) I'm sure it highlights the defeat

 

I did a quick search on the forums for "Premade" . . . This issue has come up over and over again. I am not saying your point is valid/invalid . . . I just don't see how this specifically relates to GSF only.

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/searc...archid=4601482

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=%22Premade%22

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=%22Premade%22

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=%22Premade%22

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=%22Premade%22

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=%22Premade%22

(The list goes on and on)

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I certainly understand the frustration, but I don't think the problem is solely premades. Part of the problem is lack of team work. On my server the imps simply do not work as a team, and as a result lose 4 out of 5 matches. The problem is that they're always chasing kill count an damage. So they take a node, and within 1 minute fly off looking for enemies. Then a republic toon swoops in and caps the satellite. Once the republic gets 2 or 3 satellites, they stop pushing and just let the imps come to them. They are at a satellite with 2 or 3 other defenders plus multiple turrets. They shoot down an imperial player, who respawns and flies right back into the battle. So they're flying in 1 or 2 at a time into a satellite where the republic has 2-3 turrets and 2-4 defenders.

 

I can't speak for other servers, but on Shadowlands this happens very, very often. What players need to understand is that if you hold two nodes there's no need to go flying off--sit at the satellite and defend. The enemy WILL come to you, and they will be at a disadvantage. But I see it all the time when I fly on imp side: 3 or 4 of us cap a node, a republic scout skims by and everyone but me goes chasing all the way across the map. So I'm alone at the node and 20 seconds later 3 or 4 enemies come in. Node goes red, they stay withing 5-10k of it, turrets come up, and now the farming session has begun.

 

The advantage premades have is not just because they are in premades, but because they use voice communication and know how they are expected to act in a group (their particular role). Solo-queuers can't be expected to type out a complex (or even simple) series of commands and expect anyone else to obey them. Or even see them. Who has the time to type that out? Who has the time to read that as they are dogfighting? How do we know the person giving the commands isn't an idiot? You might not even be able to tell at a glance who is flying what, and so you'd have to give generic "someone needs to take out that gunship at B" and then 4 guys go chasing that gunship back to his capital ship while everyone else at the satellites are now outnumbered.

 

Really, the premades have such a big advantage that the queues really need to be different, or else matched up differently through some kind of rating system. It's going to get even worse as a new crop of rookie pilots arrive who are not only outmatched by premades, but hopelessly out-equipped as well. The bloodbath will be ugly, and I daresay a lot of people will be turned off for good.

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*sighs* Completely ignored my previous thread. So if they separate out premade into a separate Queue, Queue times would be much longer/non existent. For everyone.

 

Second, you'd be punishing people for organizing.

 

*Edit*

Is it me, or am I the only one who has fun losing as well? I've solo queued against premades where I knew we'd lose. . . . Still made the best of it and had fun.

*End Edit*

Edited by Cashal
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The advantage premades have is not just because they are in premades, but because they use voice communication and know how they are expected to act in a group (their particular role). Solo-queuers can't be expected to type out a complex (or even simple) series of commands and expect anyone else to obey them. Or even see them. Who has the time to type that out? Who has the time to read that as they are dogfighting? How do we know the person giving the commands isn't an idiot? You might not even be able to tell at a glance who is flying what, and so you'd have to give generic "someone needs to take out that gunship at B" and then 4 guys go chasing that gunship back to his capital ship while everyone else at the satellites are now outnumbered.

 

Really, the premades have such a big advantage that the queues really need to be different, or else matched up differently through some kind of rating system. It's going to get even worse as a new crop of rookie pilots arrive who are not only outmatched by premades, but hopelessly out-equipped as well. The bloodbath will be ugly, and I daresay a lot of people will be turned off for good.

 

Oh, I fully understand the advantage that premades have when they are in voice. That's why I said the problem isn't solely premades, but also lack of team play by some players. My point is that the problem can be mitigated by players playing objectives rather than rushing in trying to increase their kill count and damage numbers, and problem that (on my server) seems to be a much bigger issue on the imperial side.

 

There's no doubt that voice comms give a significant advantage. But if you take two nodes then the team just pulls together and defends them, the enemies will walk right to you. And the imperial pilots (again, on my server and in my personal experience) all to often line up and go at those nodes one at a time. They then get engaged by 2-4 republic pilots and get shot down fast.

 

It's not JUST the voice comms that are causing this problem. Its the fact that many players are chasing score and kill count and not playing to objectives. On my server that tends to be a bigger problem for the imperial players. Heck, I was in one match Saturday where the players were saying before the match "ignore the satellites, just go at the enemy ships". And surprise surprise, we lost like 1000 to 50 or so. And the the republic team had waaaaaaay more kills and damage.

 

Why? Because they took nodes, held them, then used numbers plus turrets to destroy the imperial fighters that were lining up to come in once or twice at a time instead of respawning and waiting for a group of allies to move in at once. Do voice comms help? Absolutely they do. But if you don't play the objectives and the other team does, they take them. Then they hold them. And now you're dealing with 2-4 enemy ships AND 2-3 turrets.

Edited by Eldrenath
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Oh, I fully understand the advantage that premades have when they are in voice. That's why I said the problem isn't solely premades, but also lack of team play by some players. My point is that the problem can be mitigated by players playing objectives rather than rushing in trying to increase their kill count and damage numbers, and problem that (on my server) seems to be a much bigger issue on the imperial side.

 

There's no doubt that voice comms give a significant advantage. But if you take two nodes then the team just pulls together and defends them, the enemies will talk right to you. And the imperial pilots (again, on my server and in my personal experience) all to often line up and go at those nodes one at a time. They then get engaged by 2-4 republic pilots and get shot down fast.

 

It's not JUST the voice comms that are causing this problem. Its the fact that many players are chasing score and kill count and not playing to objectives. On my server that tends to be a bigger problem for the imperial players. Heck, I was in one match Saturday where the players were saying before the match "ignore the satellites, just go at the enemy ships". And surprise surprise, we lost like 1000 to 50 or so. And the the republic team had waaaaaaay more kills and damage.

 

Why? Because they took nodes, held them, then used numbers plus turrets to destroy the imperial fighters that were lining up to come in once or twice at a time instead of respawning and waiting for a group of allies to move in at once. Do voice comms help? Absolutely they do. But if you don't play the objectives and the other team does, they take them. Then they hold them. And now you're dealing with 2-4 enemy ships AND 2-3 turrets.

 

But you see the problem you are describing could be mostly mitigated with voice comm, because then you could organize. People may not be just chasing kills or whatever. They may think they are HELPING the defense by pressuring the third sat point, forcing the other team to commit defenders. but without voice comm to help organize everything, others may think the same thing and next thing you know your sats are not defended adequately. Or you can't quickly or effectively call for help as the other side rolls 4 or 8 to a single satellite and take it fast, and now it's 1-2 instead of 2-1 and you have to go on the offensive again.

 

And that one-by-one attacks you are describing? That is from a lack of voice comm and organization.

Edited by ptwonline
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But you see the problem you are describing could be mostly mitigated with voice comm, because then you could organize. People may not be just chasing kills or whatever. They may think they are HELPING the defense by pressuring the third sat point, forcing the other team to commit defenders. but without voice comm to help organize everything, others may think the same thing and next thing you know your sats are not defended adequately. Or you can't quickly or effectively call for help as the other side rolls 4 or 8 to a single satellite and take it fast, and now it's 1-2 instead of 2-1 and you have to go on the offensive again.

 

And that one-by-one attacks you are describing? That is from a lack of voice comm and organization.

 

Oh, I don't disagree. Your point is definitely valid, and I would not for one moment say that voice comms wouldn't make a very significant difference. I just think that the problem can be mitigated with play style, not eliminated.

 

For example, during the 45 seconds before the match begins you can put a plan into effect. "Top 6 go to A, bottom 6 go to B. Take and hold, ignore C. If you take the node, stay close to defend and don't go chasing all over the map." Or, break into 3 groups: top 4 to A, middle to B, bottom 4 swing between A and B depending on which is flashing."

 

But still, the play style kicks in. Even though in many matches we've said all that and put it into effect and then it works, invariably 1-2 minutes without action and half or all of the folks at one satellite go chasing after a single scout, 25k from the node they were defending. Then 2 or 3 enemies come in and nab the satellite. It doesn't take voice comms to know "I'm defending B. My job is to stay within 5-10k of B and not give chase all over the map."

 

Now, one obvious hole in this is when the enemy runs multiple gunships: if someone doesn't break after them they can just destroy the defenders. And obviously voice comms are a huge help there: "I'm going after gunship X, you stay and defend." So if the enemy is running 4-5 gunships, no voice comms is a HUGE disadvantage. If they're running 0-2 gunships it isn't as bad, and if people stick to the plan, then the downside of voice can be reduced. Not eliminated, but reduced.

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This is largely a problem due to this being early access and only subscribers are allowed. With such a limited player pool matchmaking issues crop up, but I imagine when GSF is fully released in February and all account types are granted access this won't be a problem.

 

Not that they shouldn't have coding in place to keep matchmaker from pitting premades against pugs after the full release mind you.

 

Ya, right, the players in Feb will sign on, get owned, realize everyone is weeks/months ahead and they will never catch up; and then they will simply not play and there will never be enough to make matchmaking work.

 

They hosed it the day they released it, how many players who tried it still Q, 1 in 10?

 

Pfft...

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