First i loved the movie, and i will see it many times, i believe its nicelly done and brings a fresh new perspective so that said....

 

1. For a "galactic resistance" having no more than 20 or so fighters is kinda lame, not so much of "galactic" or "resistance" to it

 

2. So by the mere act of pointing a gun at someones head will automatically induce him to drop a worldwide shield that will kill thousands or millions, i would expect more resistance from someone in the first order and in that position or have that site much better protected, really?

 

3. So Yoda is probably the worst teacher in the force ever since it took him forever to make Luke learn to use his force powers when Rey just happen to learn them in a couple of minutes with extensive lightsaber training included

 

4. For all the force powers in Kylo he almost had his butt kicked in lighsaber duel with an ex half dead stormtrooper, Vader would be hugelly dissapointed !

 

5. For all the power of the first order they could have made a better logo, really !

 

6. For all the power of the first order they i probably counted an army of about 2 or 3 thousand, is that all? really where are the huge warships and destroyers?

 

7. For all the advanced computers in the world they cant figure out some lame coordinates in a map, really? call Nasa !

 

8. So it seems 2 death stars is not enough to learn that a circular static sitting duck body with a big gun is maybe not the best way to use your resources, but as we all know, maybe they are slow learners

 

9. For all the complexity and resources and might just remember that all you to do to blow up a death planet with a huge gun is... well a pissed off janitor

 

10. You killed han ! really? *** !!!!

Edited December 19, 2015 by khsolo

I love that most of the people do love this movie but everyone who wanted to see something else is making sure that they're getting heard.

I mean you really have to do always new topic when there're many discussion topics already.

 

But 1/5 topic you made me answer.

1. For a "galactic resistance" having no more than 20 or so fighters is kinda lame, not so much of "galactic" or "resistance" to it

-This one of the stupidest arguments i've heard. Most of battles where local or sneak missions. I'm sure you loved Clone Wars and Revenge of Sith for their super large scale fights. Less is more in this case. There was no large scale invasion.

 

2. So by the mere act of pointing a gun at someones head will automatically induce him to drop a worldwide shield that will kill thousands or millions, i would expect more resistance from someone in the first order and in that position or have that site much better protected, really?

- PG-12

 

3. So Yoda is probably the worst teacher in the force ever since it took him forever to make Luke learn to use his force powers when Rey just happen to learn them in a couple of minutes with extensive lightsaber training included

- Rey is advanced in melee combat. He fought of two mercenaries in the start with ease. Rey used force to mind trick stormtrooper after failing 2 times. She lifted a lightsaber(yes Kylo Ren was picking it up but doubt she knew Rey was there so he didn't use full force). And then she meditated. Not that advanced force using.

 

4. For all the force powers in Kylo he almost had his butt kicked in lighsaber duel with an ex half dead stormtrooper, Vader would be hugelly dissapointed !

- No. He played with him and got cocky. Got minor hit once and disarmed Finn in couple seconds.

 

5. For all the power of the first order they could have made a better logo, really !

-This is something what bothers you?

 

6. For all the power of the first order they i probably counted an army of about 2 or 3 thousand, is that all? really where are the huge warships and destroyers?

-Have you seen previous ones? Empire lost and this was built from left overs by fanatics.

 

7. For all the advanced computers in the world they cant figure out some lame coordinates in a map, really? call Nasa !

- Yeah just go into hyperspace and hope that you won't crash into planets or stars. Man pls think.

 

8. So it seems 2 death stars is not enough to learn that a circular static sitting duck body with a big gun is maybe not the best way to use your resources, but as we all know, maybe they are slow learners

- This was protected by a building which couldn't be bombed and only got destroyed because of Han Solo and crew got into and planted bombs. It's not like he just flew into the building like in previous one.

 

9. For all the complexity and resources and might just remember that all you to do to blow up a death planet with a huge gun is... well a pissed off janitor

- Yes by one person. How drunk were you in movie?

 

10. You killed han ! really? *** !!!!

- Had to be done. Won't write all the reasons but two. He was almost 75 y old. Kylo Ren had to grow as character.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Wulftun

I would agree the movie was poorly thought out and generally mediocre. This may be the result of giving the fans exactly what they wanted: a poor movie which retread worn paths and let better fields lay fallow. The upside to this is that it allows new SF/Space Opera take over where Star Wars is content to retell.

 

EDIT: Did anyone else get annoyed by Boyega's "black-isms?" The whooping and hollering felt like a racial caricature from a Michael Bay movie instead of something genuinely star wars. It simply doesn't make sense that in a post-racial (not to mention isolated) environment, Finn would pick up such characteristics. That particular aspect of the films was quite jarring to me and one of the least likable aspects of the films.

Edited December 20, 2015 by TYBERzan

1. For a "galactic resistance" having no more than 20 or so fighters is kinda lame, not so much of "galactic" or "resistance" to it

Star Wars creators do not know scale when you have planets that have tens of trillions of people on them the logical thing is you should have at a billion ships and billions of soldiers. Yeah its the thing we never talk about.

 

2. So by the mere act of pointing a gun at someones head will automatically induce him to drop a worldwide shield that will kill thousands or millions, i would expect more resistance from someone in the first order and in that position or have that site much better protected, really?

Why?

 

3. So Yoda is probably the worst teacher in the force ever since it took him forever to make Luke learn to use his force powers when Rey just happen to learn them in a couple of minutes with extensive lightsaber training included

Yeah she was trained in using a melee weapon and her opponent was very injured

4. For all the force powers in Kylo he almost had his butt kicked in lighsaber duel with an ex half dead stormtrooper, Vader would be hugelly dissapointed !

Exactly as Vader he was arrogant and he payed for it.

 

5. For all the power of the first order they could have made a better logo, really !

Do not see the problem.

 

6. For all the power of the first order they i probably counted an army of about 2 or 3 thousand, is that all? really where are the huge warships and destroyers?

Again Star Wars creators do not know scale so I agree here. It was always a weak point in Star Wars writing.

 

7. For all the advanced computers in the world they cant figure out some lame coordinates in a map, really? call Nasa !

Yeah considering the size of the galaxy not true.

8. So it seems 2 death stars is not enough to learn that a circular static sitting duck body with a big gun is maybe not the best way to use your resources, but as we all know, maybe they are slow learners

It was inside job more then a outside one so they learned.

9. For all the complexity and resources and might just remember that all you to do to blow up a death planet with a huge gun is... well a pissed off janitor

And a smuggler and a force user and wookie.

10. You killed han ! really? *** !!!!

Had to be done that dude is old and takes to much of the spotlight.

People seem to forget that Rey was shown to be an accomplished melee fighter. So, is it really that hard to believe Rey with a little knowledge of her force abilities, could wield a lightsaber?

 

None of them showed themselves to be awesome with the lightsaber. Finn went down quick. Ben we knew wasn't fully trained. He had impressive abilities, but was still a conflicted (even after killing his father he was just coming off of struggling with his LS) student (it was stated he was yet to be a fully trained force user...Vader he was not) who was also injured.

 

Han dying. You mean, how they gave Harrison what he wanted back in ETSB? Also, it stops them from putting the 70 year+ actor back in the next movie

 

I figure we only saw a small part of the Resistance and the First Order. Snoke wasn't on the planet after all.

 

All that said, this isn't me trying to say the movie was the best movie ever. It was an okay movie, that I thought could have used a bit more work, but it was enjoyable, and now I'll have to see it in 3D

EDIT: Did anyone else get annoyed by Boyega's "black-isms?" The whooping and hollering felt like a racial caricature from a Michael Bay movie instead of something genuinely star wars. It simply doesn't make sense that in a post-racial (not to mention isolated) environment, Finn would pick up such characteristics. That particular aspect of the films was quite jarring to me and one of the least likable aspects of the films.

 

No ... you probably just feel that way because he's black.

 

Poe was whooping and hollering, so were his wingmates.

Luke whooped and hollered more than once in ANH. So did Han. So did a bunch of rebels when the transports were launched from Echo Base. So did lots of Ewoks in ROTJ..

Rey was whoopin and hollerin after she and Finn escaped on the Millenium Falcon. Strange that you picked out Finn's whoopin and hollerin and not hers. Maybe you ought to reexamine your question and where it may really be coming from.

Edited December 20, 2015 by bigray

10. You killed han ! really? *** !!!!

Had to be done that dude is old and takes to much of the spotlight.

 

There also was some accident during production, when Ford got jammed in the MF decorations. He is probably indeed too old for this.

 

Also, they needed to kill "old mentor" character by hands of his "descendant". Otherwise Ep.4 copy wouldn't be complete.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Frenesi

Harrison Ford being so enthustiastic aobut the movie was a sure sign of Han Solo being killed off. When did you last see him popping up on all these talk shows and youtube channels talking about the movie....

I was dissapointed but not surprised when I saw the J.J. lens flare in a few scenes.

There also was some accident during production, when Ford got jammed in the MF decorations. He is probably indeed too old for this.

 

Also, they needed to kill "old mentor" character by hands of his "descendant". Otherwise Ep.4 copy wouldn't be complete.

 

vader is ob1's descendant?

 

you're really reaching... it's not even remotely similar. han didnt train ben. ob1 went to die, han went to try to convince him. killing ob1 had zero effects on vader except a couple casual mentions later... it only affected Luke really. Han's death had profound effects on Ben, Chewie, Leia, Rey, and Finn.

 

When Ob1 died his voice came back immediately after. When Han died, permadeath.

 

seriously you have GOT to be *********** kidding by comparing the two situations.

Edited December 21, 2015 by maxetius

Also, they needed to kill "old mentor" character by hands of his "descendant". Otherwise Ep.4 copy wouldn't be complete.

 

That is actually a hero's journey trope.

People seem to forget that Rey was shown to be an accomplished melee fighter. So, is it really that hard to believe Rey with a little knowledge of her force abilities, could wield a lightsaber?

 

None of them showed themselves to be awesome with the lightsaber. Finn went down quick. Ben we knew wasn't fully trained. He had impressive abilities, but was still a conflicted (even after killing his father he was just coming off of struggling with his LS) student (it was stated he was yet to be a fully trained force user...Vader he was not) who was also injured.

 

Han dying. You mean, how they gave Harrison what he wanted back in ETSB? Also, it stops them from putting the 70 year+ actor back in the next movie

 

I figure we only saw a small part of the Resistance and the First Order. Snoke wasn't on the planet after all.

 

All that said, this isn't me trying to say the movie was the best movie ever. It was an okay movie, that I thought could have used a bit more work, but it was enjoyable, and now I'll have to see it in 3D

 

I assume you mean when she had a scuffle with those two scavengers trying to take BB-8 for the bounty? I wouldn't have called that accomplished. It was kinda messy, and neither of the scavengers really tried to hurt her. They seemed more focused on BB-8. Besides, correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't there been made a distinction between melee weapons training and lightsaber training? I could've sworn lightsabers took special training due to the weightless blade. Also I don't think bo-staff training has much overlap with sword training. I could be wrong though.

 

However I loved the movie still, although it annoyed me that there were only X-wings in the final battle. I mean it's not like there is some ship that's the "workhorse" of the rebellion that has been in both battles against the death star, and just so happens to be adept at bombing runs and Y shaped...gah! I really wanted some Y-wings to show up! They were literally made for the job!

As usual the novelization fills in the blanks of the mere 2 hour movie

 

Kylo wasn't trying to hurt Rey, while she was trying very much to kill him

 

She felt the pull of the dark side when she started winning - although it had a voice - possibly Snoke himself.

Edited December 21, 2015 by maxetius

So, the film is incapable of expressing the situation properly, and relies on side merchandise to do it instead? Edited December 21, 2015 by Frenesi

How do you express you inner thoughts in a film?

What else did the novel shed light upon was Coruscant destroyed why did the Republic had the entire fleet in one place how much of the first order died in the explosion and is Finn force sensitive?

So, the film is incapable of expressing the situation properly, and relies on side merchandise to do it instead?

 

Kinda similar to the OT and PT.

How do you express you inner thoughts in a film?

 

Oh, there is a huuuge amount of ways. The marking of a good film is that it can show such things without constantly speaking about them. Or, should I say, a marking of good director?

 

Kinda similar to the OT and PT.

 

Point taken, but OT was pretty self-sufficient in that regard. Books did some nice little additions, like describing Luke's mess of a fighting style, but it wasn't NEEDED to understand what's going on in the film.

 

PT suffered from it a bit more, but never got that confusing either. I actually believe it to be superior to EU additions, like Sidious getting beaten by Windu. It made his victory even more satisfying.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Frenesi

Oh, there is a huuuge amount of ways. The marking of a good film is that it can show such things without constantly speaking about them. Or, should I say, a marking of good director?

 

Yeah but better said how exactly? I know of movies where the inner thoughts of characters are narrated either by them or a narrator but my question do you think such a thing works for Star Wars?

Is there any other way to show the inner thoughts of Ben not wanting to kill Rey and Rey wanting?

Yeah but better said how exactly? I know of movies where the inner thoughts of characters are narrated either by them or a narrator but my question do you think such a thing works for Star Wars?

Is there any other way to show the inner thoughts of Ben not wanting to kill Rey and Rey wanting?

 

Well, it was done before, in arguably the best scenes we have. Obi-Van sacrifice wasn't narrated. Vader's redemption wasn't narrated. I need to rewatch Han Solo carbonite scene, but, as I remember, it was petty minimalistic on words too.

 

If you don't hate PT, there is also "I'm pregnant" scene, when everything is shown purely by facial expressions. Silent dialogue between Padme and Anakin before his fall was, IMO, pretty strong as well.

 

As for scene in question, it could have been shown simply by better choreography. By Kylo playing with her, instead or ROFL-stomping her in first part of the fight and getting ROFL-stomped in second.

 

Edit: I guess i miscomprehended your post a bit, sorry. i wasn't referring to voice narration in my initial post, more to visual expression and acting.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Frenesi

LOT'S of complaints about Rey using a lightsaber which I guess I really don't understand. Is it used strictly by Jedi and Sith? Yes, but for all practical intents it's a sword. Wielding a sword, especially out of necessity, doesn't take years of training. People are also upset that she bested Kylo. Not sure why that's so surprising or disappointing and this leads to what I though was one of the better executed plot points. Kylo is no Vader or even Maul. He is very raw, not fully trained and conflicted and I thought that came across well in the movie. So it was no big surprise/disappointment that he could bested by a novice with a lightsaber.

When our novices beat accomplished Jedi/Sith we don't seem to bat an eye in game.

When our novices beat accomplished Jedi/Sith we don't seem to bat an eye in game.

 

What novices?

Good movie. Lots of similarities to E4 but I don't care. Some heavy use of easy plot fixes (R2 anyone?) but I don't care. It was a fun 2+ hours and I am glad I saw it. It's a movie. Say it with me. It's a movie.

I also found the movie to be kind of Meh and that Kylo Ren was a very underwhelming villain. He was pretty much Hayden Christiansen 2.0 with his angtsy whining and tantrums.

 

The new characters were kind of boring and so was Leia. I think Han Solo was the only one that gave a good performance.

 

At least this movie was better than the abominations that were 2 and 3 but now I am starting to feel disillusioned with Star wars movies in general. Might just stick to Filoni-verse and Hickman-verse (is this the guy I should use to describe SWTOR canon?...is he to SWTOR what Chris Metzen is to WoW?)) for my Star Wars fix.

Good movie. Lots of similarities to E4 but I don't care. Some heavy use of easy plot fixes (R2 anyone?) but I don't care. It was a fun 2+ hours and I am glad I saw it. It's a movie. Say it with me. It's a movie.

 

But... BUT IT'S A MOVIE!!!!11 How can you say it doesn't matter?

 

Dead serious here. Cinema is also an art, not simply entertainment. You can't simply disregard one or another, and SW all that time hold good positions in both camps

First i loved the movie, and i will see it many times, i believe its nicelly done and brings a fresh new perspective so that said....

Based on your list I'm not so sure you loved this movie... perhaps a list of the things you think the movie got right?

1. For a "galactic resistance" having no more than 20 or so fighters is kinda lame, not so much of "galactic" or "resistance" to it

This would create a problem of how to have a small band of heroes actually affect the outcome. How would you solve that?

2. So by the mere act of pointing a gun at someones head will automatically induce him to drop a worldwide shield that will kill thousands or millions, i would expect more resistance from someone in the first order and in that position or have that site much better protected, really?

So a shield wouldn't have an off switch?

3. So Yoda is probably the worst teacher in the force ever since it took him forever to make Luke learn to use his force powers when Rey just happen to learn them in a couple of minutes with extensive lightsaber training included

It was very convenient, yes. But the movie *did* show her sort of using powers without actually knowing it. She *obviously* has mega patience with all the scrawl marks tracking her time as a slave, and according to Yoda, that's all a jedi needs, right? (that and youth)

4. For all the force powers in Kylo he almost had his butt kicked in lighsaber duel with an ex half dead stormtrooper, Vader would be hugelly dissapointed !

Did you miss the part where he was SHOT BY CHEWIE?!? And was bleeding (quite a bit too) from his side! You try fighting to your 100% max potential while wounded (with what should be mortally wounded based on the rest of the bowcaster scenes)

5. For all the power of the first order they could have made a better logo, really !

SMH

6. For all the power of the first order they i probably counted an army of about 2 or 3 thousand, is that all? really where are the huge warships and destroyers?

You counted them? Also, you think that they were all... there?!?

7. For all the advanced computers in the world they cant figure out some lame coordinates in a map, really? call Nasa !

In the Star Wars universe, there are *so many* uncharted systems... This is NOT against the lore, even a little bit.

8. So it seems 2 death stars is not enough to learn that a circular static sitting duck body with a big gun is maybe not the best way to use your resources, but as we all know, maybe they are slow learners

Your best point in this list, by far, but I'll ask again: how else would a small band of heroes change the outcome?

9. For all the complexity and resources and might just remember that all you to do to blow up a death planet with a huge gun is... well a pissed off janitor

No, you needed an ex-stormtrooper (and they are actually ****** now, so that's a plus not a minus) with a conscience, an old hero smuggler/grebel general with some unresolved issues and father time looking over his shoulder, his wookie ****** faithful companion using his OP weapon, and a powerful force user who hasn't fully developed her abilities yet but through her upbringing has a *lot* of the major basics covered. Oh and throw in a couple of squadrons of battle hardened X-Wing pilots for cover.

10. You killed han ! really? *** !!!!

Totally needed to be done.

 

So I think you missed some actual points in your list:

1. Too much overlap from previous stories. Paying homage is one thing, that was damn near a full remake.

2. Chewie should have gotten a better chance to "grieve" over losing his lifelong bestest friend EVER.

3. There could have been a few more scenes where the audience learns a little more about Rey and Finn (maybe BB-8 too) while *not* in combat. This might have also been used to help explain her advanced learning speed.