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Premades are ruining your little expansion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Premades are ruining your little expansion

Cashal's Avatar


Cashal
12.30.2013 , 02:54 PM | #21
*sighs* Completely ignored my previous thread. So if they separate out premade into a separate Queue, Queue times would be much longer/non existent. For everyone.

Second, you'd be punishing people for organizing.

*Edit*
Is it me, or am I the only one who has fun losing as well? I've solo queued against premades where I knew we'd lose. . . . Still made the best of it and had fun.
*End Edit*
Knickers - Ebon Hawk

Eldrenath's Avatar


Eldrenath
12.30.2013 , 03:15 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
The advantage premades have is not just because they are in premades, but because they use voice communication and know how they are expected to act in a group (their particular role). Solo-queuers can't be expected to type out a complex (or even simple) series of commands and expect anyone else to obey them. Or even see them. Who has the time to type that out? Who has the time to read that as they are dogfighting? How do we know the person giving the commands isn't an idiot? You might not even be able to tell at a glance who is flying what, and so you'd have to give generic "someone needs to take out that gunship at B" and then 4 guys go chasing that gunship back to his capital ship while everyone else at the satellites are now outnumbered.

Really, the premades have such a big advantage that the queues really need to be different, or else matched up differently through some kind of rating system. It's going to get even worse as a new crop of rookie pilots arrive who are not only outmatched by premades, but hopelessly out-equipped as well. The bloodbath will be ugly, and I daresay a lot of people will be turned off for good.
Oh, I fully understand the advantage that premades have when they are in voice. That's why I said the problem isn't solely premades, but also lack of team play by some players. My point is that the problem can be mitigated by players playing objectives rather than rushing in trying to increase their kill count and damage numbers, and problem that (on my server) seems to be a much bigger issue on the imperial side.

There's no doubt that voice comms give a significant advantage. But if you take two nodes then the team just pulls together and defends them, the enemies will walk right to you. And the imperial pilots (again, on my server and in my personal experience) all to often line up and go at those nodes one at a time. They then get engaged by 2-4 republic pilots and get shot down fast.

It's not JUST the voice comms that are causing this problem. Its the fact that many players are chasing score and kill count and not playing to objectives. On my server that tends to be a bigger problem for the imperial players. Heck, I was in one match Saturday where the players were saying before the match "ignore the satellites, just go at the enemy ships". And surprise surprise, we lost like 1000 to 50 or so. And the the republic team had waaaaaaay more kills and damage.

Why? Because they took nodes, held them, then used numbers plus turrets to destroy the imperial fighters that were lining up to come in once or twice at a time instead of respawning and waiting for a group of allies to move in at once. Do voice comms help? Absolutely they do. But if you don't play the objectives and the other team does, they take them. Then they hold them. And now you're dealing with 2-4 enemy ships AND 2-3 turrets.

ptwonline's Avatar


ptwonline
12.30.2013 , 03:23 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Eldrenath View Post
Oh, I fully understand the advantage that premades have when they are in voice. That's why I said the problem isn't solely premades, but also lack of team play by some players. My point is that the problem can be mitigated by players playing objectives rather than rushing in trying to increase their kill count and damage numbers, and problem that (on my server) seems to be a much bigger issue on the imperial side.

There's no doubt that voice comms give a significant advantage. But if you take two nodes then the team just pulls together and defends them, the enemies will talk right to you. And the imperial pilots (again, on my server and in my personal experience) all to often line up and go at those nodes one at a time. They then get engaged by 2-4 republic pilots and get shot down fast.

It's not JUST the voice comms that are causing this problem. Its the fact that many players are chasing score and kill count and not playing to objectives. On my server that tends to be a bigger problem for the imperial players. Heck, I was in one match Saturday where the players were saying before the match "ignore the satellites, just go at the enemy ships". And surprise surprise, we lost like 1000 to 50 or so. And the the republic team had waaaaaaay more kills and damage.

Why? Because they took nodes, held them, then used numbers plus turrets to destroy the imperial fighters that were lining up to come in once or twice at a time instead of respawning and waiting for a group of allies to move in at once. Do voice comms help? Absolutely they do. But if you don't play the objectives and the other team does, they take them. Then they hold them. And now you're dealing with 2-4 enemy ships AND 2-3 turrets.
But you see the problem you are describing could be mostly mitigated with voice comm, because then you could organize. People may not be just chasing kills or whatever. They may think they are HELPING the defense by pressuring the third sat point, forcing the other team to commit defenders. but without voice comm to help organize everything, others may think the same thing and next thing you know your sats are not defended adequately. Or you can't quickly or effectively call for help as the other side rolls 4 or 8 to a single satellite and take it fast, and now it's 1-2 instead of 2-1 and you have to go on the offensive again.

And that one-by-one attacks you are describing? That is from a lack of voice comm and organization.

Eldrenath's Avatar


Eldrenath
12.30.2013 , 03:53 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
But you see the problem you are describing could be mostly mitigated with voice comm, because then you could organize. People may not be just chasing kills or whatever. They may think they are HELPING the defense by pressuring the third sat point, forcing the other team to commit defenders. but without voice comm to help organize everything, others may think the same thing and next thing you know your sats are not defended adequately. Or you can't quickly or effectively call for help as the other side rolls 4 or 8 to a single satellite and take it fast, and now it's 1-2 instead of 2-1 and you have to go on the offensive again.

And that one-by-one attacks you are describing? That is from a lack of voice comm and organization.
Oh, I don't disagree. Your point is definitely valid, and I would not for one moment say that voice comms wouldn't make a very significant difference. I just think that the problem can be mitigated with play style, not eliminated.

For example, during the 45 seconds before the match begins you can put a plan into effect. "Top 6 go to A, bottom 6 go to B. Take and hold, ignore C. If you take the node, stay close to defend and don't go chasing all over the map." Or, break into 3 groups: top 4 to A, middle to B, bottom 4 swing between A and B depending on which is flashing."

But still, the play style kicks in. Even though in many matches we've said all that and put it into effect and then it works, invariably 1-2 minutes without action and half or all of the folks at one satellite go chasing after a single scout, 25k from the node they were defending. Then 2 or 3 enemies come in and nab the satellite. It doesn't take voice comms to know "I'm defending B. My job is to stay within 5-10k of B and not give chase all over the map."

Now, one obvious hole in this is when the enemy runs multiple gunships: if someone doesn't break after them they can just destroy the defenders. And obviously voice comms are a huge help there: "I'm going after gunship X, you stay and defend." So if the enemy is running 4-5 gunships, no voice comms is a HUGE disadvantage. If they're running 0-2 gunships it isn't as bad, and if people stick to the plan, then the downside of voice can be reduced. Not eliminated, but reduced.

Foambreaker's Avatar


Foambreaker
12.30.2013 , 04:07 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Gavin_Kelvar View Post
This is largely a problem due to this being early access and only subscribers are allowed. With such a limited player pool matchmaking issues crop up, but I imagine when GSF is fully released in February and all account types are granted access this won't be a problem.

Not that they shouldn't have coding in place to keep matchmaker from pitting premades against pugs after the full release mind you.
Ya, right, the players in Feb will sign on, get owned, realize everyone is weeks/months ahead and they will never catch up; and then they will simply not play and there will never be enough to make matchmaking work.

They hosed it the day they released it, how many players who tried it still Q, 1 in 10?

Pfft...

Danylia's Avatar


Danylia
12.30.2013 , 04:20 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Cashal View Post
Is it me, or am I the only one who has fun losing as well? I've solo queued against premades where I knew we'd lose. . . . Still made the best of it and had fun.
There is losing after spending most of the time dogfighting around satellite(s), and losing where you respawn , approach a satellite, get hit by Ion Railgun and right after killed by Slug/Defenders/Turrets, all over again. I honestly admit I do not have fun being farmed the whole match without any real chance to fight back.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rafkin View Post
Last nights group finder was a mess. The short version is that two of the people were really bad but the tank was pretty good. After we called it I asked the tank if he wanted to queue up with me. He said "I'm eleven and I have to go to bed".
The one guy who knew what he was doing was eleven years old.

SomeJagoff's Avatar


SomeJagoff
12.30.2013 , 04:48 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonBraun View Post
I haven't noticed any of these kinds of issues yet.
same here, been queuing with my buds and just stomping people, haven't seen a single premade causing any problem for us. Even if we do run into some premades at some point, we got vent, so we should be fine.
Free Character Transfer & Other Goodies: http://www.swtor.com/r/bgpK6G

abercromb's Avatar


abercromb
12.30.2013 , 05:23 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Eldrenath View Post
Oh, I fully understand the advantage that premades have when they are in voice. That's why I said the problem isn't solely premades, but also lack of team play by some players..
Just come out of a series of terrible matches. All evening it seemed that the worst of the worst got teamed on my side. Of course I was up against premades, but you always are. But players don't help themselves. They don't fly together. Don't attack sat's together. Don't even make sensible choices on what ships to pick. the last match tonight I was in an 8 man and found myself with 5 gunships on my side. Of course we could not take anything. Puts you off the whole thing.

Ren_simp's Avatar


Ren_simp
12.30.2013 , 05:48 PM | #29
Premades how do you know they are premades?

Thranta's Avatar


Thranta
12.30.2013 , 06:04 PM | #30
The game is designed for team play.

I do understand though because the times I have gone against teams while playing with an unorganized solo team you have no chance at all. But this is supposed to happen.

The answer is to become organized and play as a team.

It is still early and there are limitations right now. I do notice slowly, very slowly, more and more players communicating and winning because of it. I usually ask before a match what’s the plan? Any reply usually means a better experience than no reply and ships flying all over the place.

Until there are different modes and matchmaking teams will continue to blow away solo groups.