XS Freighter Flyby/Orbital Strike is now a 2.5 second cast that costs 10 Energy with a 45 second cooldown. It's base damage also got reduced by ~62%.

goodbye dear friend ^^ i knew you well

so from the best aoe skill to the worst?... wow

it's our lvl 49 or so ability,.. it should pack a punch.. slight nerf maybe but 62%...

Will we even bother casting it...

And where's your source?

so from the best aoe skill to the worst?... wow

 

Will we even bother casting it...

 

And where's your source?

pts is up tomorrow with patch notes

XS Freighter Flyby/Orbital Strike is now a 2.5 second cast that costs 10 Energy with a 45 second cooldown. It's base damage also got reduced by ~62%.

 

goodbye dear friend ^^ i knew you well

Link?

Link?

*Removed link for reasons seen in next post*

Is what is available atm. Notes should be up tomorrow.

You might want to get rid of that link, we are not supposed to post that stuff here.

As for the nerf. Ouch! That really really hurts. I'd rather they have done something like increase the cost or the cooldown. Its an attack from a starship so its supposed to hurt, not tickle.

Yeah, sad day for slingers and snipers...

Orbitals were a great way to get rid of adds in boss fights, now we need to redesign the tactics because orbitals alone won't kill them. I guess Cybertech players will be happy that demand for their grenades is rising again.

Anxious to test the patch on the PTS tomorrow.

well for markmanship, orbital was a big part of the damage.. so unless they buff something else.. markmanship won't compete with the rest.

And on a flavor note.. orbital is an epic ability.. it's supposed to hit like a truck it's coming from space... but now some missiles from a merc will hit as much or more..

You might want to get rid of that link, we are not supposed to post that stuff here.

 

As for the nerf. Ouch! That really really hurts. I'd rather they have done something like increase the cost or the cooldown. Its an attack from a starship so its supposed to hurt, not tickle.

Yeah, I'd rather have seen them increase the cost to the point where it was prohibitive to use on single targets, rather than nerf the damage into the ground.

This can only be a pve nerf right? And if so, it would have had to mildy affect the dps output of any sniper spec. Not sure the intention here...

If it's a pvp thing... well then that's just quite sad... You know, cause it's almost impossible to avoid a giant glowing circle...

The main issue I have with this is that you're not only taking away a huge part of the single-target rotation (200-300 DPS) but you also make orbital almost useless in an AoE situation, since even with a Bloodthirst you'd be hard-pressed to break 5k if you crit. Reducing the energy cost and dropping the cooldown by 15s (which MM already has) doesn't even come close to making up for the nerf.

Snipers are a pure DPS class and should, in theory, be able to output the highest DPS alongside marauders. If the 62% reduced damage does come into effect than snipers will parse (on average) lower than mercenaries, operatives, sorcerers and marauders. A pure DPS class should not be in 5th position.

Snipers are a pure DPS class and should, in theory, be able to output the highest DPS alongside marauders. If the 62% reduced damage does come into effect than snipers will parse (on average) lower than mercenaries, operatives, sorcerers and marauders. A pure DPS class should not be in 5th position.

This argument is ridiculous. Who cares if your class can spec heals or tank, if you're dpsing you should be able to do just as much damage as 'pure' dps specs, not be gimped for something you don't even use.

You guys have been parsing higher than anyone else for a long time (along with hybrid vg/pt who are also getting massive nerf), you knew this was coming.

This argument is ridiculous. Who cares if your class can spec heals or tank, if you're dpsing you should be able to do just as much damage as 'pure' dps specs, not be gimped for something you don't even use.

 

You guys have been parsing higher than anyone else for a long time (along with hybrid vg/pt who are also getting massive nerf), you knew this was coming.

If Mind Crush weren't bugged, I suspect you'd be parsing a lot closer to gunslinger numbers. In any case, neither here nor there.

Other DPS specs are parsing in the 3.8 range, including scoundrels, sentinels and Vanguards. And of course, let's not forget Assault… Nerfing gunslingers would be fine if they were face rolling every other class, but they really aren't. They're ahead, but not by an enormous amount.

It's still the best area/node denial skill in the game. Also, it's testing. They can always dial it back up a little.

I'm so glad I unsubed this month. I was gonna play sniper when I came back at some point... now, unless they change this back or at least nerf it way less, I wont.

There's knee-jerk whining, and there's this guy. Did you even read the rest of the changes? The ones EricMusco posted?

If Mind Crush weren't bugged, I suspect you'd be parsing a lot closer to gunslinger numbers. In any case, neither here nor there.

 

Other DPS specs are parsing in the 3.8 range, including scoundrels, sentinels and Vanguards. And of course, let's not forget Assault… Nerfing gunslingers would be fine if they were face rolling every other class, but they really aren't. They're ahead, but not by an enormous amount.

They have more parses in the top 10 than any other class, in every fight, and it's not even close. They are #1 on every fight except tyrans, where they are #2 behind pyro merc, and we all know those are op single target.

Not going to bother checking tfb/s&v but I'm sure it's the same there.

If you're going to argue that it's because it's the most played class, it's the most played class for a reason.

This class has been dominating for a long time, and will still be just fine after this nerf, but you can't say it isn't warranted.

If Mind Crush weren't bugged, I suspect you'd be parsing a lot closer to gunslinger numbers. In any case, neither here nor there.

 

Other DPS specs are parsing in the 3.8 range, including scoundrels, sentinels and Vanguards. And of course, let's not forget Assault… Nerfing gunslingers would be fine if they were face rolling every other class, but they really aren't. They're ahead, but not by an enormous amount.

This sums up my thoughts pretty accurately.

This argument is ridiculous. Who cares if your class can spec heals or tank, if you're dpsing you should be able to do just as much damage as 'pure' dps specs, not be gimped for something you don't even use.

 

You guys have been parsing higher than anyone else for a long time (along with hybrid vg/pt who are also getting massive nerf), you knew this was coming.

We haven't though, as KBN pointed out. 62% is a huge huge nerf, and to make things worse it severely limits our ability to do useful AoE, which has always been a strength of the class. If gunslingers needed a nerf it shouldn't be to orbital...

I'm honestly kind of stunned. I may be wrong, but this seems like the most heavy handed nerf they've ever done in the history of the game.

Would be nice if they gave us a bone to go with nerfing probably the most iconic Agent ability.

KBN assuming these numbers are accurate and assuming SS/MM keeps their bonuses to cast time and cooldown unchanged, what is this nerf looking like in terms of actual numbers?

It's really hard to say. Boarder did some parses across the specs dropping flyby and using the PvE 4pc to see what it was like (this was before the modified dummies). As I recall, hybrid ends up fairly even with lethality. Marksman was the most impacted, dropping by like 300 points. That was just one set of tests though.

It is important to note that these changes are coming together with some other changes which do have an impact. Specifically, 36/3/7 is getting a buff that I think everyone overlooked. The Corrosive Dart talents are being altered so that you only need one point to get the double tick, and the extra duration talent is being doubled in value but also made to require two points. This affects Marksmanship a lot more than the other specs, since it means that you can pick up both the double tick and the increased duration. This is an obvious increase to damage per energy, but also a substantial gain in terms of energy management, since CD will no longer need to be applied as often. Take they together with the extra energy during Sniper Volley from foregoing Orbital (energy which will likely go into Explosive Probe), and it's clear that the picture is much more complicated than just "drop Orbital from your DPS breakdown".

We haven't though, as KBN pointed out. 62% is a huge huge nerf, and to make things worse it severely limits our ability to do useful AoE, which has always been a strength of the class. If gunslingers needed a nerf it shouldn't be to orbital...

I go both ways on this one. Snipers have insanely good utility, and AoE is part of that. In a very real sense, a group which stacks four snipers has very few weaknesses, particularly relative to current content. So, shifting off some of that utility by toning down the AoE seems ok. This also indirectly puts more emphasis on some of the less powerful single target specs which are biased more towards AoE damage (such as Focus and Tactics).

On the other hand, it's an unmitigated nerf. Snipers were always good at AoE, but they were never the best relative to more AoE focused classes. The cast time and cost associated with Orbital prevented it from being used quite as freely as even Death From Above, much less Smash or Flame Thrower. I can't pretend that my own group won't be the weaker for this change (Commando + Slinger + Slinger + Sentinel).

We will need to see where snipers stand in terms of single target DPS following this change. If it is in line with fixed sorcs and non-broken mercs, then I'll be content. I think it can lag behind marauders just a bit since melee needs some incentive, but the disparity cannot be too severe. As long as it is balanced such that a raid leader considers all of a marauder, a sniper and a sorc to offer equal (but differently flavored) value as a DPS.

Kinda hard to feel sorry for a class that has 2nd best single target, best aoe, is ranged, no pushback, and has shield and several other useful dcds.

http://www.swtor.com/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=7100940

when a spec is top dps for 9/10 fights, and the only reason is isnt 10/10 is because the 2 min duration inflates the effect of carnage's burst, you know it needs a nerf.

Kinda hard to feel sorry for a class that has 2nd best single target, best aoe, is ranged, no pushback, and has shield and several other useful dcds.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=7100940

when a spec is top dps for 9/10 fights, and the only reason is isnt 10/10 is because the 2 min duration inflates the effect of carnage's burst, you know it needs a nerf.

Good point, I was only talking about damage.

They have the best utility in the game (currently), bar none, and top of the line dps... this nerf should surprise nobody.

what would a small nerf be, 10%?. Oh look my huge radius internal dmg aoe attack only crits for 9k instead of 10k on one of its 4 ticks. Everything is good. Raids will now stop stacking snipers that self cleanse and chain shields on tanks.

They are nerfing 1 aoe ability down to where the rest of the aoe abilities are, stop acting like the entire class is destroyed.

Just a quick thing to note here, it does say 62% off of the BASE damage, correct? What exactly does this mean? The base damage after modified by gear? Or the base damage if you take it on a naked character?

I am kind of hard pressed to believe that Bioware would nerf an ability by 62% right off the bat.

Also, Snipers aren't the only people getting hit by this. This affects Operatives pretty heavily as well.