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I do not agree with the inclusion of SGRs.


TheBBP

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I guess this is the thread where we can comment.

 

I don't mind SGR at all and it doesn't bother me in the least. My only concerns are that it becomes a political issue (which it has) and that the context of the setting is ignored.

 

What I mean by the context is that Star Wars is typically a family friendly universe that, while enjoyed by people of all ages, is largely aimed at kids. Things in Star Wars are usually pretty black and white and apolitical.

 

Sci-Fi and fantasy settings like Mass Effect and Dragon Age are darker and made for more mature audiences. Therefore, same gender romances fit naturally in those worlds and they don't seem out of place at all. But stories like Star Wars and even Lord of the Rings, on the other hand seem to be more traditional.

 

That doesn't mean they can't evolve. And again, I don't have a problem with SGR, but I just think it has to be done in the spirit of the setting. Star Wars always has to be Star Wars first and foremost.

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Kailyo calls you Agent enough times, as long as her dialogue didn't contain "Hey big boy, come over here" then SGR would have worked just fine from the beginning. A little bit of forethought on the part of their writers and this issue would be a non.

 

Well, unless the writer didn't want Kaliyo to be bisexual. I don't know...I'm an amateur writer at best, but I understand how characters take on lives of their own in your mind, and you can't just force them to be something they're not, even if it would appease a certain consumer. I guess that's why it kind of bugs me when people suggest it could have just been thrust upon an existing companion.

 

Like, no--I don't think Andronikos Revel is going to want to get intimate with your male Inquisitor. That would just be pandering and a disservice to the character.

 

As to Kaliyo, sure--I could easily see how Kaliyo might go either way, but I didn't write her.

 

As to whether characters should have been designed on the drawing board to be whatever, well...yeah, they probably should have done, just in case they had decided to try to include it in the vanilla game. But hindsight is usually 20/20.

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I guess this is the thread where we can comment.

 

I don't mind SGR at all and it doesn't bother me in the least. My only concerns are that it becomes a political issue (which it has) and that the context of the setting is ignored.

 

What I mean by the context is that Star Wars is typically a family friendly universe that, while enjoyed by people of all ages, is largely aimed at kids. Things in Star Wars are usually pretty black and white and apolitical.

 

Sci-Fi and fantasy settings like Mass Effect and Dragon Age are darker and made for more mature audiences. Therefore, same gender romances fit naturally in those worlds and they don't seem out of place at all. But stories like Star Wars and even Lord of the Rings, on the other hand seem to be more traditional.

 

That doesn't mean they can't evolve. And again, I don't have a problem with SGR, but I just think it has to be done in the spirit of the setting. Star Wars always has to be Star Wars first and foremost.

 

I disagree with your point. Star Wars is in may respects not family orientated but rather a very mature and even violent universe. I mean I can recall several instances of over the top violence in the game which is certainly not for young children. For example in may of the dark side options the outcomes result in either the torture of someone and in some cases innocents to out right cold murder. There maybe no blood in the game but the gore is certainly there.

 

Also you made a point about it being "black and white and apolitical" and again I disagree with this. See in both factions there are always elements of politics. Take the Republic it strives for Democracy with the senate and each system having its own laws and how each world is autonomous etc. Then take the Empire, it is a system which is very near autocratic with its harsh slavery policies and how the Sith rule without question or recourse.

 

Finally in the novels as well as the films there are many themes that are described these include war, love, marriage, betrayal and redemption. Yet in the game all of these are present but it also contains sexual overtones, references to drug taking etc. So while I agree with the fact you mentioned ME3 and Dragon Age were set in a dark atmosphere this game is incredibly dark as well and as such it would not detract from the Star Wars experience in the slightest if and when SGR is implemented.

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Stop and think. Forget what you want or what others are saying, just for a second.

 

Bioware has already stated that including this will take long hours and resources. It's not something to be done overnight. So therefore, you want Bioware to spend valuable long hours, man-power and resources and who knows what else, just for a few lines of unimportant romance which will mean nothing in the long run or in the scope of things?

 

It's not like it was another MMO where you can have roleplaying romances, weddings, houses to live in and friends to come and participate in your romantic events. There, it's with real people you're involved with because it's a game about life. Here, it's with an NPC with its dialogue already written out. No one can see it, but you. And it's over with in a few seconds. Just like that and poof! It ends.

 

For something so trivial you want BioWare to take away from other far more important things they should be working on? Seriously, for a fleeing few seconds of romance which contributes nothing to the game or yourself because soon as it's over, it's over.

 

It's more important for Bioware to address important issues that game has at the moment. Things like the many bugs around. Right now you can't do the {Weekly} at Section X due to a bugged quest as well as many other things the game needs. Things like this far outweight trivial stuff like a meaningless 5 second romance.

 

To me, it just sounds like some people want it just to say they forced the game to add it. And not for any benefit other then this, because there is none.

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Also you made a point about it being "black and white and apolitical" and again I disagree with this. See in both factions there are always elements of politics. Take the Republic it strives for Democracy with the senate and each system having its own laws and how each world is autonomous etc. Then take the Empire, it is a system which is very near autocratic with its harsh slavery policies and how the Sith rule without question or recourse.

 

Right. And that's pretty black and white and apolitical. You essentially have your good guys in white hats (the Galactic Republic with freedom and democracy) and your bad guys in black hats (the Sith Empire with absolutism). Sure, individual characters can tread a more neutral ground or disagree entirely with their own faction, but in general, things in Star Wars are straightforward.

 

Again, this doesn't mean I'm against SGRs. I'm not. As I said it doesn't bother me in the least. But I just think the setting has to fit, otherwise it will feel forced (no pun intended), tacked on and awkward.

 

This includes straight romances, too. Think about it. Compare the romances in KOTOR to the ones in Mass Effect. In KOTOR it was very much cheesy (Bastila: "Kiss me you fool.") while in Mass Effect it was totally hot. (Miranda climbing on top of you in engineering while undressing.) It's because one is Star Wars and the other is Mass Effect. One is rated T for teens, while the other is M for mature.

 

That's the difference.

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Stop and think. Forget what you want or what others are saying, just for a second.

 

Bioware has already stated that including this will take long hours and resources. It's not something to be done overnight. So therefore, you want Bioware to spend valuable long hours, man-power and resources and who knows what else, just for a few lines of unimportant romance which will mean nothing in the long run or in the scope of things?

 

It's not like it was another MMO where you can have roleplaying romances, weddings, houses to live in and friends to come and participate in your romantic events. There, it's with real people you're involved with because it's a game about life. Here, it's with an NPC with its dialogue already written out. No one can see it, but you. And it's over with in a few seconds. Just like that and poof! It ends.

 

For something so trivial you want BioWare to take away from other far more important things they should be working on? Seriously, for a fleeing few seconds of romance which contributes nothing to the game or yourself because soon as it's over, it's over.

 

It's more important for Bioware to address important issues that game has at the moment. Things like the many bugs around. Right now you can't do the {Weekly} at Section X due to a bugged quest as well as many other things the game needs. Things like this far outweight trivial stuff like a meaningless 5 second romance.

 

To me, it just sounds like some people want it just to say they forced the game to add it. And not for any benefit other then this, because there is none.

 

Gotta say, I agree with this. But not just with SGRs. All RP and fluff stuff. I feel like there are much bigger and more immediate concerns to the game that need fixing.

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Right. And that's pretty black and white and apolitical. You essentially have your good guys in white hats (the Galactic Republic with freedom and democracy) and your bad guys in black hats (the Sith Empire with absolutism). Sure, individual characters can tread a more neutral ground or disagree entirely with their own faction, but in general, things in Star Wars are straightforward.

 

Again, this doesn't mean I'm against SGRs. I'm not. As I said it doesn't bother me in the least. But I just think the setting has to fit, otherwise it will feel forced (no pun intended), tacked on and awkward.

 

This includes straight romances, too. Think about it. Compare the romances in KOTOR to the ones in Mass Effect. In KOTOR it was very much cheesy (Bastila: "Kiss me you fool.") while in Mass Effect it was totally hot. (Miranda climbing on top of you in engineering while undressing.) It's because one is Star Wars and the other is Mass Effect. One is rated T for teens, while the other is M for mature.

 

That's the difference.

 

I know your not against it that is not in dispute. But again it is not as straight forward to say that the Empire is one sided or the Republic is one sided as there are many facets that make up those societies. Also your comparison on romances and maturity between those various games does not invalidate what I said about the level of maturity in THIS game.

 

Wether the romances are cheesy or more erotic or even suggestive the fact remains that those adult themes are still very much present in this game. Also comparing the rating system does not make a difference because young kids would still play M rated games or games rated T. Yes in Star Wars it may be less in your face and in Mass Effect it is very much in the face but just because it is less visible or the rating is different does not mean it is not there.

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Gotta say, I agree with this. But not just with SGRs. All RP and fluff stuff. I feel like there are much bigger and more immediate concerns to the game that need fixing.

 

There is at least ten things I want before they add SGR. Some of these things might cause me to stop playing if they go on long enough. But the priority argument is bunk and everyone knows it.

 

1) They are already in process of adding this content. Stopping it now would just tick off another group of posters.

 

2) We all have our pet issues. A lot of people here talk about Pazaak. I genuinely could not care less if they add this. I don't play MMOs to play card games. If I wanted to play card games I'll buy a deck of cards. BUT, if they decided to add Pazaak, I'm not going to claim that my pet issues were more worthy. Because there are plenty of people asking (God knows why) for Pazaak.

 

3) The devs have a right to choose their own priorities. At some point, the devs have to make the game that they want to make. I think trying to focus group develop the game is half its problem. Listening to players is absolutely important, but when players are often contradictory in what they want, the developers need to decide what kind of game they want and go from there.

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Gotta say, I agree with this. But not just with SGRs. All RP and fluff stuff. I feel like there are much bigger and more immediate concerns to the game that need fixing.

 

I'm sorry but no you simply cannot have a MMO without fluff or RP. To many players it is how they explore and engage with the world and fluff is just little things that make life in the game interesting and these are absolutely needed. Yes I know things need to be fixed but you are suggesting they take away valuable things that people actually enjoy.

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Bioware has already stated that including this will take long hours and resources. It's not something to be done overnight. So therefore, you want Bioware to spend valuable long hours, man-power and resources and who knows what else, just for a few lines of unimportant romance which will mean nothing in the long run or in the scope of things?

 

I think you're exaggerating a bit. They said that altering existing companion dialogue is complicated, hence they have put all forms of companion expansion on hold. Makeb as a story addition has been in the works since the game launched and has been talked about since last spring. You might not be into the story/romance arcs in this game, but it is something that Bioware does, and plans to keep doing for this game. It's only fair that they include the ability for SGR in their romances, which they have put in, and will continue to put in, because a lot of people do in fact play the game because it has this kind of content.

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I'm sorry but no you simply cannot have a MMO without fluff or RP. To many players it is how they explore and engage with the world and fluff is just little things that make life in the game interesting and these are absolutely needed. Yes I know things need to be fixed but you are suggesting they take away valuable things that people actually enjoy.

 

I never said they shouldn't be added. I agree they are important. I'm saying their are more gameplay issues that need to be fixed/addressed first, THEN they should add the fluff.

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Not sure what else I should type here to stay within the rules other than I suggest that other needs be prioritized ahead of SGRs.

 

I agree to the point where I want to scream. SGR? really? BW would rather focus on homoerotic cutscenes than a new warzone or world event??really?????

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SGR should be included. I can't see any reason why it was not included before the release besides lack of funding / money and time.

 

Now that SWTOR is doing so well and has millions of subscribers and is currently killing WoW they should be able to afford to record a couple of dialogues to make this happen.

 

I am sorry, what? Where can I see those numbers? :)

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At what point would people be satisfied that they have "enough" pvp content, or whichever content, that they would say "OK, I'm happy, you can add the content that I'm not interested in now"? Honestly, probably never. They've added two warzones within the first year of this game. SGR was promised pre-launch, and it's not even in the game yet. In fact, they did say that they bumped up PVP and Operation content above story content in release priority. This is a fact.

 

Also, remember: there are different teams working on different kinds of content. They don't pull people from one department into another.

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I agree to the point where I want to scream. SGR? really? BW would rather focus on homoerotic cutscenes than a new warzone or world event??really?????

 

They just added a new warzone didn't they?

More RP options is good thing. There's a new planet and content coming, perhaps it will also include a world event.

You also get all Flashpoints updated to 55 and so on.

 

Honestly, on most of my alts this won't even come up...I make alts on concept and that means I sometimes get left out of the "Flirt" options due to gender sameness. Spacebar is still around to skip through stuff, and we don't have any evidence of it being LGBTQ-Erotic at all outside of a sentence or two ingame. Who knows, it might not even reach your companions and it might be an isolated contact here or there. You can still avoid it and progress so...

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ALL the resources and effort should be used to solve bugs, add new Operations, WZ's, pazaak, arenas, open PVP events, flashpoints, SSSP, Swoop races.......not that SGR thing.

 

I want to be able to say "hey ppl in my game I can use my ship for PVP" or "i can play pazaak" or "we can do Swoop races". You cannot say to ANYONE "My game has SGR!!" god dammit WE NEED CONTENT not stupid things.

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ALL the resources and effort should be used to solve bugs, add new Operations, WZ's, pazaak, arenas, open PVP events, flashpoints, SSSP, Swoop races.......not that SGR thing.

 

I want to be able to say "hey ppl in my game I can use my ship for PVP" or "i can play pazaak" or "we can do Swoop races". You cannot say to ANYONE "My game has SGR!!" god dammit WE NEED CONTENT not stupid things.

 

You DO know that SGR's is technically and without a doubt, CONTENT. Also, they have DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS for DIFFERENT CONTENT. IE The Department that handles PVP/WZ/Etc is not the SAME as the Department that is handling the SSSP whom are not the same as the Department that handles writing the Story. Do each Department interact with each other, yes. BUT they do not take away resources.

 

Speaking of which, WHAT "Resources" do YOU think that adding SGR's, which by the way they DID in fact say we were going to be getting, do you think they took from the PVP Department or the Mini-Game Department (FYI, they've stated that Mini-Games such as Pazaak/Sabbac/Swoop Racing wasn't high on their list of priorities) or even the Flash Point or Operation's Departments? Hmm? What resources do you think were "stolen"?

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ALL the resources and effort should be used to solve bugs, add new Operations, WZ's, pazaak, arenas, open PVP events, flashpoints, SSSP, Swoop races.......not that SGR thing.

 

I want to be able to say "hey ppl in my game I can use my ship for PVP" or "i can play pazaak" or "we can do Swoop races". You cannot say to ANYONE "My game has SGR!!" god dammit WE NEED CONTENT not stupid things.

 

Again - they have multiple teams of different kinds of employees who specialize in writing, platform design, art, sounds, etc.. They don't send the writer or sound guy to solve bugs or create warzones. They wouldn't know where to begin. An MMO needs all these people to keep it operational, they're all working on their specialized areas. They CAN hire more people to work on bug fixing, and design - I noticed they actually did have some positions for those things open on their website recently. But obviously they aren't going to increase their staff too much since they recently downsized quite a bit.

 

Also, I don't give a damn about pazaak , swoop races or even PVP. But I respect other's desire to have it.

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ALL the resources and effort should be used to solve bugs, add new Operations, WZ's, pazaak, arenas, open PVP events, flashpoints, SSSP, Swoop races.......not that SGR thing.

 

I want to be able to say "hey ppl in my game I can use my ship for PVP" or "i can play pazaak" or "we can do Swoop races". You cannot say to ANYONE "My game has SGR!!" god dammit WE NEED CONTENT not stupid things.

 

Um, you do know that with the Rise of the Hutt Cartel Expansion, you WILL in fact be getting NEW Flash Points? Heck, you JUST got a new PvP Warzone. What Open PvP Events would YOU like to have added? What makes you think that via the SSSP you'll be able to use your Ship for PvP?

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Again - they have multiple teams of different kinds of employees who specialize in writing, platform design, art, sounds, etc.. They don't send the writer or sound guy to solve bugs or create warzones. They wouldn't know where to begin. An MMO needs all these people to keep it operational, they're all working on their specialized areas. They CAN hire more people to work on bug fixing, and design - I noticed they actually did have some positions for those things open on their website recently. But obviously they aren't going to increase their staff too much since they recently downsized quite a bit.

 

Also, I don't give a damn about pazaak , swoop races or even PVP. But I respect other's desire to have it.

 

Well, to be fair, the Writing Department may send a Writer or 2 to the PvP Department to help write out any script that the Warzones would need along with get a general idea as to the theme of the Warzone. But I do agree that creating Warzones wouldn't require the entire Writing Department.

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There is, of course, some cross-department work where it is required, but the writing for a few lines of warzone dialogue hardly seems time consuming, that could all probably be phoned in. :rolleyes:

 

I agree, and SGR's happens to require more time from the Writing Department

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Content to placate a tiny amount of very loud people. Resources should have been put into more guild amenities at minimum.

 

Uh, different department different resources. Guild Amenities only needs very little resources from the Writing Department.

 

Oh, and just HOW do you know how small the amount of people that have been asking for this are? Just because there might seem to be a small amount vocally asking for this doesn't represent just how many would ACTUALLY use this. Cause for all you know it could be a Majority that wants SGR's added but only a small fraction actually comes onto the Forums and vocally asks for it.

 

Also, the people who are asking for this are NOT being "Very Loud" so please don't blow that out of proportion either.

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