1: Black Hole comes from drops, which F2P can only roll a few times/week for.

 

2: The only reason passes are available on the GTN is because suppliers buy them from the cartel market. Less demand means the suppliers will purchase less from the cartel market.

 

3: You forget why there are people who are still F2P, either they do not have access to money to spend on the game (they still create revenue through the system described in 2). Or are too frugal to spend cash for the subscription. In which case the 20 USD fee, which is more than a months subscription, might be an even greater step to overcome.

 

OP is uninformed.

Tionese/columi/rakata/black hole comms will all be converted into Classic Comms... use these to buy gear.

 

Look here: http://dulfy.net/2013/02/22/swtor-commendations-system-in-patch-2-0/

It's not meant to feed you market consumption needs beyond getting an unlock here and there and to do so at a pace that most players cannot tolerate.

Really, it was impossible to get the least unlock with the PTS cc rewards. There were perhaps 1000cc over the entire achievements rewards, which no F2P player could grind without spending more than that (character slots unlocks and such little things being mandatory for some).

If you have followed the patchnotes from the PTS on 2.0, you may have noticed that with the arrival of level 55, most end-game grinding gear, such as tionese and war hero gear have been removed.

 

Will this mean the end of some of the advantages F2P has brought this game?

 

F2P will no longer have an incentive to continue playing warzones at level 50 for example.

Currently, they can buy warzone passes from the GTN and use it to play and grind for better gear.

In 2.0, they have no reason to purchase said passes, as there is nothing to work towards and thus these peope will probably stop purchasing passes and lower the warzone population.

 

This is seperate from the fact that the new 'Top tier/ranked warzones' are again behind a cash barrier, thus resulting in the very problem of low population, that F2P was supposed to solve.

 

Is this yet another bad move? Discuss

 

1) F2P an still earn BH coms tp earm BH gear and Hazmat implants which is the tionese gear at lvl 55

 

2) lvl 55 is part of an expansion which is paid which is not f2p .... you have to purcahse the content to be effected by it. F2P

 

3) F2P was to fill the low SUBSCRIBER population problem which it has .. .its a million times easier to pug raids and FPs now then it was before F2P many F2P players have chosen to sub or buy raid unlocks so they can raid end game once or twice a week.

 

4) Expertise gear is not gone so you can still grind PVP for PVP gear.... PVP gear is not good enough for PVE and tionese is not good enough for lvls 50-55 it simply means getting better gear buy buying it from GTN or talking to people and making friends who will help you out by crafting dread guard gear for cheap or with your own matts.

 

----------------------

 

the only problem from a F2P stand point for 2.0 is the top tier gear is only available through raiding ... as it is not REable for crafting meaning that if you dont raid you cannot obtain the highest tier gear period. That being said the second highest tier can be RE'd and will be available within a few weeks for sure so you could easily buy your top end gear a couple weeks after launch of 2.0.

 

People have to understand the F2P model .... its there to let you experience the BRUNT of the game in hopes to convince you to either spend money on weekly unlocks for raids and FPs and WZs and the like ... or convince you that its worth subscribing to enjoy that level of entertainment. If it was all handed to you easily as F2P there would be no reason to subscribe and they would lose more money then they would make which is backwards thinking for businessmen. Its a game for us, its not a game for them its business.

 

I am sure with the increases and returning players for new content that the game will hardly be in trouble with 2.0. There really is nothing better on the market yet. With the comming of Skyrim online and other highly anticipated MMOs that would be another issue to deal with in days to come .... but skyrim isnt likely to be f2p at launch and almost all other MMOs that are f2p are worthless cept maybe tera and ddo.

 

SWTOR could do many things to make F2P better sure .... but its a hard game to play when you want to make subscribing MORE attractive then F2P ... how do you balance worth of 15$ a month vs occasional casual store purchases? the truth is they need to consider dropping the sub price not making things better for F2P. If the sub was 10$ a month with a years purchase they would have subs pouring back in and more f2p who are on the line willing to pay 10$ a month which is much cheaper then the store coin for raiding and FPs and WZs every week.

Pretty sure those missions are not repeatable.

 

if they are not repeatable per character they will be repeatable through all characters maybe this is a way to convince people to have more then 1 toon.

(1) the second highest tier can be RE'd and will be available within a few weeks for sure so you could easily buy your top end gear a couple weeks after launch of 2.0.

 

(2) People have to understand the F2P model .... its there to let you experience the BRUNT of the game in hopes to convince you to either spend money on weekly unlocks for raids and FPs and WZs and the like ... or convince you that its worth subscribing to enjoy that level of entertainment.

It's really interesting how you seem to know what you speak of at first and... are totally off.

 

1- 2nd tier will in no way be available on the GTN 1 week after launch... remember there is now 10% chance to learn AND RE doesn't return exotic mats anymore.

 

2- Yay! F2P is meant to increase servers population AND make cash... reality is how we're reminded to take our credit card many times a day is so boring very few F2P players actually continue even up to level 50. Entertainment itself is severely compromised because of that, and 2.0 trend of "grind for longer" won't help either.

if they are not repeatable per character they will be repeatable through all characters maybe this is a way to convince people to have more then 1 toon.

 

 

From my understanding the achievement system is based on legacy and not individual characters. I could be wrong.

First off, I read over the Dulfy bit where BH is purchasable with Classic. My bad.

 

As a reply to one of the posters:

2) lvl 55 is part of an expansion which is paid which is not f2p .... you have to purcahse the content to be effected by it. F2P

4) Expertise gear is not gone so you can still grind PVP for PVP gear.... PVP gear is not good enough for PVE and tionese is not good enough for lvls 50-55 it simply means getting better gear buy buying it from GTN or talking to people and making friends who will help you out by crafting dread guard gear for cheap or with your own matts

 

- Even if you do not purchase RotHC, it will still affect you, as the lvl 20, 40 and 50 warzone gear vendors are removed from the game in 2.0. So people capped at lvl 50, will have little to purchase with said warzone comms.

You should compare it to being capped at lvl 45 without access to lvl 20/40 PvP gear, what else is left to save those comms for?

 

 

But to clarify my experience on the subject, I have 5 true F2P players in my guild that I purchase weekly passes for from the GTN. (They pay me up front through CoD mails and I mail them passes in return). These are all level 50 players that actively participate in Ranked Warzones and if I can find enough Operations passes, in those aswell.

 

So to debunk the myths that F2P don't do endgame, there it is.

 

With the current system, there is still a certain progression in PvE. In 2.0 there is less. So eventually, less incentive/need to purchase passes.

Compared to PvP, where there is no more progression in 2.0 (at true F2P lvl 50 cap).

Edited March 28, 2013 by DarkDajin

But to clarify my experience on the subject, I have 5 true F2P players in my guild that I purchase weekly passes for from the GTN. (They pay me up front through CoD mails and I mail them passes in return). These are all level 50 players that actively participate in Ranked Warzones and if I can find enough Operations passes, in those aswell.

 

So to debunk the myths that F2P don't do endgame, there it is.

 

Doesn't debunk anything, just shows you're a nice person that's been paying for other people's gametime through the CM. Without you paying for it, those F2Pers would in fact not be doing endgame. Mythbuster rank - Not Busted.

 

Again, this game wasn't made for freebies. F2P exists in limited form - if someone wants to get in on the game, they can pay for it, or play under the limitations they accept by choosing not to.

Doesn't debunk anything, just shows you're a nice person that's been paying for other people's gametime through the CM. Without you paying for it, those F2Pers would in fact not be doing endgame. Mythbuster rank - Not Busted.

 

Again, this game wasn't made for freebies. F2P exists in limited form - if someone wants to get in on the game, they can pay for it, or play under the limitations they accept by choosing not to.

 

I'm not nice, nor do I pay for them (5% markup from GTN)

 

And I'm not advocating for more freebies, I'm wondering if the decisions that they made for 2.0 will affect the number of passes bought to sell on the GTN. Since there is less incentive for F2P to use those to get access to ex. Warzones to buy...nothing? (maybe planetary comms at 40:1?)

Edited March 28, 2013 by DarkDajin

I'm not nice, nor do I pay for them (5% markup from GTN)

On my server, there simply isn't any pass to buy and I've seen a grand total of 3 level 50 F2P players actually playing the game or at least trying, one is now almost gone, one didn't even know he wasn't allowed to participate in ops, and the last one had spent months worth of subs for just flashpoints.

Edited March 28, 2013 by JMCH

MMOs that have switched to free to play generally don't give away end-game content for free. When CoH went F2P, you had no access to new levels, new powers or the end-game content unless you purchased it. If someone plays that much that they intend to run level 55 ops, then they should be subbing. F2P is intended for trying out the game, casual players, players who don't play often, players who aren't serious end-gamers, etc. Also, if someone doesn't have access to the post-50 levels, then they don't need the higher level gear. Nobody will need level 55 gear to run level 50 content.

MMOs that have switched to free to play generally don't give away end-game content for free. When CoH went F2P, you had no access to new levels, new powers or the end-game content unless you purchased it. If someone plays that much that they intend to run level 55 ops, then they should be subbing. F2P is intended for trying out the game, casual players, players who don't play often, players who aren't serious end-gamers, etc. Also, if someone doesn't have access to the post-50 levels, then they don't need the higher level gear. Nobody will need level 55 gear to run level 50 content.

TOR is more generous than most games in this respect. Nobody has to sub to run 55 ops. They just have to buy the expansion, which is a one-time cost. To equip the gear, they need to buy the artifact gear unlock, also a one-time cost. The only ongoing charge is the ops pass, which they only need when they actually want to run ops.

 

That's why this entire thread is silly. The premise is false, and TOR is actually better than most games in allowing "free" players to access "everything" without ever signing up for a subscription.

I think people are still not getting the 'premise' of this topic.

 

It isn't about what F2P should have, or not have.

It is about, will removing lvl 50 elder game content, hurt the cartel market sales of ex. Warzone passes?

(For all the reasons stated by me previously)

 

Aka, is BW shooting itself in the foot (and possibly bringing swtor closer to umm..closeing?)

Edited March 29, 2013 by DarkDajin

Anyway, F2P is indeed bad, looking at the population on various planets : most F2P players simply stop before even Alderaan.

 

You have no evidence that these two are linked.

 

Considering that the anti-BW crowd liked to point out how many subs the game lost before f2p arrived why would any be expecting that F2P players would stick at the game longer?

 

F2P allows people to try the game without any initial outlay, the expectation is that many more people will try it than if it was sub only but that lots of them won't play that long.

 

Of course the funny thing is that the endgame is not being removed for F2P as the title suggests. They get that same content that they have at the moment but the gear that you work for has been simplified. Lets be honest, does anyone grind for Columi or Rakata now? Its easier to go straight for Black Hole, especially if you have limits on sccess.

 

I think people are still not getting the 'premise' of this topic.

 

It isn't about what F2P should have, or not have.

It is about, will removing lvl 50 elder game content, hurt the cartel market sales of ex. Warzone passes?

(For all the reasons stated by me previously)

 

Aka, is BW shooting itself in the foot (and possibly bringing swtor closer to umm..closeing?)

 

They are not removing the elder game content, they are just simplifying the gear you get from that content.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Arlbo_Nabbins

You have no evidence that these two are linked.

They are not removing the elder game content, they are just simplifying the gear you get from that content.

 

Oh so F2P still have access to War Hero/Elite War hero gear once 2.0 hits?

This is very annoying. Not only for F2P, but subbers too. I loved much of the old level 50 endgame gear, Columi, Tionese and all that, because I LOOKED GREAT! So what if it was not the best gear anymore? I STILL USE WHATEVER I MANAGED TO GET. Its a true shame that all those nice sets had to go into the EA mega-trasher, they could've remade the items easy. And since they are only removed from the VENDORS, the items still exist in the game. I hope they add those old nice items back, at level 50. Would be nice started Endgame Gear, since the games class story end at level 50, dont you think?

What the hell is this guy gibbering about?

f2p people can still buy flashpoint/ops passes on GTN AND run them. they could continue to run warzones for, I don't know fun >_>

 

as for gear sets that were removed, I personally think that most of them looked awful, however... some people do like them, so I think they should bring them back as orange shell recipes, purchasable with classic coms - aim/cunning sets for armormechs, force/strength sets for synth, sabers etc for artifice and blasters etc for armstech

 

and while we're at it, I wouldn't mind it if some of the old now super rare colors were brought back as more than just "RE crystals you managed to hoard prior to patch and if you don't get a recipe, tough noogies"

 

make the recipes rare drops or make them purchasable with elite commendations, or something like that. because right now they are unattainable for majority of the crafters which encourages price gouging.

 

feel free to disagree, this is just my personal opinion.

If you have followed the patchnotes from the PTS on 2.0, you may have noticed that with the arrival of level 55, most end-game grinding gear, such as tionese and war hero gear have been removed.

 

Wait, since when was Tionese ever "end game grinding gear?" That was the cheeseball starter set.

 

1) you can get Rakata level mods from planetary coms

2) You can buy campaign/Black hole with classic coms, which you get from doing classic dailies and flashpoints.

3) You can get level 53 gear with Basic coms, which you also get from 55 dailies and quests.

4) you get Elite coms from running 55 hard modes which you can use to buy entry level 55 gear.

 

F2P will no longer have an incentive to continue playing warzones at level 50 for example.

Currently, they can buy warzone passes from the GTN and use it to play and grind for better gear.

In 2.0, they have no reason to purchase said passes, as there is nothing to work towards and thus these peope will probably stop purchasing passes and lower the warzone population.

 

I thought people pvp'd for fun, and the gear was just to help you have an advantage while playing?

Or do people just get the gear and then stop playing them?

Edited April 19, 2013 by chuixupu

Wait, since when was Tionese ever "end game grinding gear?" That was the cheeseball starter set.

 

1) you can get Rakata level mods from planetary coms

3) You can get level 53 gear with Basic coms, which you also get from 55 dailies and quests.

4) you get Elite coms from running 55 hard modes

 

 

only if you own rise of the hutt cartel.

 

2) You can buy campaign/Black hole with classic coms, which you get from doing classic dailies and flashpoints.

this however is still available to f2p accounts.

only if you own rise of the hutt cartel.

 

I thought this was just about F2P people...because that limitation would obviously exist for subscribers who don't buy RotHC as well.

If you have followed the patchnotes from the PTS on 2.0, you may have noticed that with the arrival of level 55, most end-game grinding gear, such as tionese and war hero gear have been removed.

 

Will this mean the end of some of the advantages F2P has brought this game?

 

F2P will no longer have an incentive to continue playing warzones at level 50 for example.

Currently, they can buy warzone passes from the GTN and use it to play and grind for better gear.

In 2.0, they have no reason to purchase said passes, as there is nothing to work towards and thus these peope will probably stop purchasing passes and lower the warzone population.

 

This is seperate from the fact that the new 'Top tier/ranked warzones' are again behind a cash barrier, thus resulting in the very problem of low population, that F2P was supposed to solve.

 

Is this yet another bad move? Discuss

 

F2P can purchase and use the ExPac just like subs can. They just have to pay more for it. Buy it... continue on your F2P access plan as before.

 

You buy the Expac to get Expac access (MMO 101). Then continue to play (sub or F2Pwpasses... your choice).

 

I really don't see what there is to discuss here.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Andryah

What is there to discuss? They made a product you clearly all use. They want money in return to cover their cost. If you can not understand that simple fact, then i do not know how you survive outside the comfort of these forums. Trolls!

If you don't buy an xpac, you don't get access to its features- that's always been a part of mmos.

I thought this was just about F2P people...because that limitation would obviously exist for subscribers who don't buy RotHC as well.

 

yes. its was. which is why I pointed out features that you listed that are NOT available to ANYONE who doesn't own Makeb, including f2p accounts OR subscribers. as well as features that are.

 

black hole/campaign/dreadguard gear. which is still something to work towards if gear acquisition is your thing.

 

but do try buying anything from makeb vendor with your planetary coms without having expansion attached. you'll have about as much success as trying to buy anything from security key vendor without security key. or CE vendor without having CE. subscription =/=acess to anything that has to do with Makeb. subscribers without makeb can spend their planetary coms on Corellian vendor instead. just like f2p accounts. I'm not sure whether to be amused or flabbergasted at the fact that people STILl don't see the difference between paying subscription, vs buying dlc. one doesn't automatically grant you access to the other. separate purchases, independant from each other.

 

btw, I'm not complaining about it. I think its fair. I'm just pointing it out.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Jeweledleah