So Im in the process of learning 2 bind. This to me is a very difficult changeout. It'd be much easier to stay with my toolset of mouse and shift than 2 learn all over again. Ive read alot about how some say it's critical for endgame and some say no big deal if u dont. Ultimately I would say that if ur good at either thats all that matters, right?

Right now im holding my own in tier 1 hard's( not great but keep peeps alive as a sage). I need 2 learn far more about mechanic's than how 2 deploy abilities. So how do all u skilled endgamers run ur mission's? Specifically are there any clicker's out there that run ops with little or no binding? Im rather new to this so if my noob colors r shining bright please use the rose colored glasses.

THX all/ any and all comments appreciated

 

 

Im updating OP due 2 a stupid reply and an equally nonconstructive response by me 2 said reply. I like those for and against so thx and keep it up. The post's hav been removed(as they should) and lets continue. Sorry to open a can of worms.

Edited January 25, 2013 by mcslack

. Ultimately I would say that if ur good at either thats all that matters, right?

 

This.

The most important part of being good at endgame pve is knowing your class.

inb4 all of the elitist keybinders.

Ultimately keybinding is more efficient and reliable. It allows you to focus more and improves situational awareness because instead of having to look at your bars while clicking you are able to keep your eyes on the fight. I have seen many good clickers, but I've also seen my fair share of those 'good clickers' eat aoe or get hit by something because they were clicking instead of paying attention or slower reaction because they were clicking when they had to run away immediately. Keybinds save lives, learn them, love them, live them. If you don't loike using numpad or number row I recommend getting a g600 logitech mmo gaming mouse. It has 12 thumbpad buttons, a g shift button that allows you to shift to another key set so you can still use the thumbpad and even a mode selection button that allows you to set as many keybinds as you want. Very handy for gaming.

For myself, I always key bind on my spec healer. With the number of targets you need to switch through by clicking their portrait it best to bind your keys so you don't have your mouse all over the place.

 

When I use either my raud or sniper it is usually single target in raids so it is easier to simply cycle through without key binds.

 

Same deal with my tank when single target. You don't lose any time clicking through rotations if you are fast enough.

I am a hybrid...I use both. On dps I mainly use my keybinds. . I took the time, learned the key binds on my healer, bought the Razer Naga mouse and my healing and situational awareness went down. I am a better healer pure and simple by clicking. I am better at dps using keybinds. On my healer I use both keybinds for attacks, Slow-release medpac and diagnostic Scan, but click my other heals.

 

I also use a modified version of Dulfy's UI (very happy she shared that), so my eyes never leave the middle of the screen, so I shouldn't miss AoEs or getting called out for something (like Marked for Death). Although Like everyone else that has a semblance of honesty, I make mistakes from time to time.

Edited January 25, 2013 by mikebevo

I can see the situational awareness of mouse only being an issue. Needing to see whats in ur face and going on around u seems important as the challenge lvl increases.This reason alone is what peaked my interest in binds.

Ive seen some how to guides but none that actually have a hands on learning aspect. Any1 know of a bind guide that actually runs u through a simulated test? Kinda like a typing course? I understand that its up 2 me to make a set up that works for me, just didnt know if something like this existed.

And thx for the replys

Edited January 25, 2013 by mcslack

This.

The most important part of being good at endgame pve is knowing your class.

inb4 all of the elitist keybinders.

 

so true.

 

 

for a clicker it is all about your hotbar layout. key binders coming from wow and its clones mashing only 1-5 keys is the root of the problem. this mmo and rift is the only mmos i ever played where this argument comes up. most are from the exwow/clone players believing one is better than the other.

 

if you dont tell anyone in your group or ops they cant tell from your game play. they are lying if they say they can.

 

a good player is a good player. a bad one is a bad one. the method of casting doesnt make either nor helps or hinders.

"The most important part of being good at endgame pve is knowing your class."

like this

"for a clicker it is all about your hotbar layout."

like this

Its seems that after a cast is made all the slots are locked for a time period( is that GCD?). During this time frame it seems sufficient time to get icon to my next cast.

Edited January 25, 2013 by mcslack

In PVE, like others mentioned, it's about skill and what is comfortable to you. I tend to be a clicker more but have some skills keybound. In PVP it is a litte different. While ultimately it is still about skill I believe that keybinders have a higher potential as the key binding would allow for slightly better response time.

It's a game, go with what works for you.

Clicking is unreliable .. you HAVE to look at your UI instead of at your surroundings .. which means you either pay attention to mechanics and misclick your abilities ( therefore lose DPS ) OR you stare at your ui and ignore the mechanics ... either way you wont be as efficient as a similarly geared and similarly skilled player using keybinds...

 

Considering rotations in this game do not require a lot of buttons not using keybinds ( for your primary rotation at least ) is pretty much unacceptable if you re looking for more than having "casual fun" (aka failing hard)

Clicking is unreliable .. you HAVE to look at your UI instead of at your surroundings .. which means you either pay attention to mechanics and misclick your abilities ( therefore lose DPS ) OR you stare at your ui and ignore the mechanics ... either way you wont be as efficient as a similarly geared and similarly skilled player using keybinds...

 

This makes me laugh,Just because you or others are unable to be effective with clicking, doesn't mean it's inferior in pve.

In pvp yes, that argument is valid.

Clicking is unreliable .. you HAVE to look at your UI instead of at your surroundings .. which means you either pay attention to mechanics and misclick your abilities ( therefore lose DPS ) OR you stare at your ui and ignore the mechanics ... either way you wont be as efficient as a similarly geared and similarly skilled player using keybinds...

 

Explain to me how I am not looking at my surroundings with this UI?

 

It depends on the person, knowledge, understanding of role, class and the instances is more important than keybinds or clicking. I have seen people that said they were keybinders be completely oblivious to what was going on around them. Saying everyone has to do it one way to be right, is the same as saying one size shoe fits everyone. It is completely untrue, it may be the best way for you and others, but my heals per second goes down by almost 200 just using keybinds and my dps falls short when I click (on the dummy by about 150).

This makes me laugh,Just because you or others are unable to be effective with clicking, doesn't mean it's inferior in pve.

In pvp yes, that argument is valid.

 

Makes you laugh ? How much of the content have you cleared ? 8 man/ 16 man ? what guild are you in ?

Clicking is unreliable .. you HAVE to look at your UI instead of at your surroundings .. which means you either pay attention to mechanics and misclick your abilities ( therefore lose DPS ) OR you stare at your ui and ignore the mechanics ... either way you wont be as efficient as a similarly geared and similarly skilled player using keybinds...

 

Considering rotations in this game do not require a lot of buttons not using keybinds ( for your primary rotation at least ) is pretty much unacceptable if you re looking for more than having "casual fun" (aka failing hard)

 

Ya, I don't agree with this either. When you become proficient with clicking you are not studying your UI that much. It only takes a quick glance. As somewhat of a clicker myself (heals and tank) I'm constantly glancing around the screen at all things...UI, health bars, situation and surroundings, etc.

Just like driving, you don't stare at the road the entire time, you learn to glance at the mirrors, instrument panel, radio, etc. when you need to check the relevant information. Just like I don't need to watch my speedometer go all the way from 0-60 with out watching the road, a clicker doesn't need to stare a the UI non-stop.

Just as keybinders get used to their methods and improve muscle memory, so too do clickers. Good situational awareness is not dependent on your imput type but rather on experience and, well...awareness. (imagine that).

It's all about what is comfortable to YOU.

If the nano-second difference between clickers and keybinders is THAT important then I would say that you have lost sight of the reality of this being a GAME.

Even when I push buttons on dps I am glancing at my UI about the same amount as when I am clicking on my healer. I still need to know it the ability is off cooldown and what ability is up. Now if they would come up with vibrating buttons on the keyboard to let me know something was up without looking, then I wouldn't have to look, but then again wouldn't that be about the same thing as a bot playing. Edited January 25, 2013 by mikebevo

I used to click but made the transition to binding a long time ago. Like you said OP, making the change is work and you will not be very good or having much fun until you get used to your new set up.

 

I decided to switch because I noticed my play really suffered if I had to turn on a dime while casting or using an ability. Obviously this sort of this is more clutch in PVP but maintaining as much DPS or healing while moving is very helpful in PVE, especially in the high end stuff, not to mention making tight turns. So for me anyway, the improvement came not so much that I looked at my hotbars less or gained more raid awareness, but that I switched to all mouse turning. And I'm pretty sure it's impossible to mouse turn and click abilities at the same time.

 

Don't be afraid to experiment - I completely redid all my binds and I use a binding setup I've haven't heard of anybody else using but I'm very comfortable with it at this point and I definitely play better. I know some people (in PvE at least) use a hybrid system where they click some things but bind some instant cast stuff so they can still mouse turn.

 

The most important thing I think is finding a set up where you can comfortably mouse turn and use abilities at the same time. Learning is a big B though, I had to unbind turning to force myself!

Edited January 25, 2013 by Pubsam

I've still got to get to the endgame content on any of my characters, but I found that the system that works best for me is to bind the abilities that I tend to use most often with a particular class (like a stealther's backstabing or a healer's... well, you know), and use my mouse for the stuff that has long cooldowns or are not usefull all the time.

 

For example: On a stealth character I bind the key for the backstab/shot because I sneak behind someone and open a fight with that ability more often than not. Whereas the stealth single stun I use a mouse for because as a stealth oriented character I can take the time-before a fight since my foes can't see me-to plan my moves out so the fight is practically won before it starts.

 

It all depends on how you like to play, and the style that gives you the most enjoyment playing.

If you're learning to bind and having a rough time consider rolling a new toon. You can change the binds around and develop muscle memory at the pace that you level, much easier than if your toon has all their abilities already and you're used to clicking them in certain places.

 

Then when you switch back to your other toons you'll be used to binding vs. clicking.

 

Binding has advantages if you set it up so it's efficient for you, but takes some time to get used to. Get hardware you're comfortable with too; it may not be what you're using now. After years of different stuff I found that a keyboard with a built in gamepad and a razer naga work for me better than anything else. An ill-fitting MMO mouse or awkward keyboard are worthless for binding.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Joesixxpack

Have you EVER heard of anyone who's gone back to clicking ?

 

If you're a new player, please learn to bind. It will only take you an hour or two to find a comfortable setup, once you get used to it you will not regret it.

Have you EVER heard of anyone who's gone back to clicking ? .

 

I did after 2 months learning keybinds. Not completely, but on my healer I did.

I keybind because I hate losing my mouse cursor on my screen which seems to happen at the worst time. This is my first MMO but after awhile of clicking on abilities (2 months) I figured I would try a basic set up that allowed me to use my number pads for certain abilities and click others. It helped me to get used to the idea of not clicking with my mouse to where now I only click on relics or to throw the ball in hutball.

the fact remains that when you go to click you lose your ability to move effectively in that moment where you are putting your cursor over your skill to click it. it is a fact that keybinding is more efficient. You are only hurting your own game play by clicking. No matter how you try to justify it you look away, you move your mouse cursor, you lose your ability to turn/move with your mouse in that moment. This game is very casual friendly but if you want to be the best you will make the transition to keybinds.

Clickers are certainly able to be proficient or good in the game, but they have the potential to be so much better if they learn to keybind.

As an endgame pve'er i'm a hybrid, i keep my 6 main abilities at 1-6 (for easy access) and keep my seventh ability below the 6 mains for quick access. You'll develop a muscle memory for where you keep your stuff and the what nots. keyboard turning is acceptable in pve mostly because you don't need to quickly turn most of the time. i'm not going to speak for pvp because i'm not a hardcore pvp'er but i've been able to hold my own in it (hurray for snipers!). i do keep some things at the letter F for stuff that would make it easy like my tank has his interupt there, my heal sorc has static barrier there, my sniper keeps her take cover in place there, my op and merc healer keeps target self at F. being a clicker isn't as bad and if your good enough people won't notice that you are, and people who say "Your not a clicker are you?" I just say no because they won't be able to tell.

 

tank DPS heal, i've done all three and the most difficult to be a clicker on is a jugg tank because they have so many abilities and all that but even then, it becomes so easy.

 

and if you don't need to turn quickly, you can use the keyboard. people (at least on my server) won't prosecute you for it, in pve.

I like to key bind myself... allows me much quicker access to my abilities. One thing I like to do is map the most common used abilities to q, e, r, t, f, g, h, z, x, c, v, b ...... those are a very short distance away from your WASD keys. I also own a Naga, and map many abilities to that... I don't think i can play a game anymore not having my naga. Although, it took awhile for my thumb to get to used to the number grid on the side. You can also use 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 as well. Very easy to hit. Edited January 25, 2013 by RattyRattail

the fact remains that when you go to click you lose your ability to move effectively in that moment where you are putting your cursor over your skill to click it. it is a fact that keybinding is more efficient. You are only hurting your own game play by clicking. No matter how you try to justify it you look away, you move your mouse cursor, you lose your ability to turn/move with your mouse in that moment. This game is very casual friendly but if you want to be the best you will make the transition to keybinds.

Clickers are certainly able to be proficient or good in the game, but they have the potential to be so much better if they learn to keybind.

I don't get how I am less effective at movement. I move and heal better than most healers I normally play with, perhaps I don't see the problem because I am not a pure clicker, nor am I a pure button masher. I do both. Also according to group logs I usually have the highest HPS, the highest EHPS and almost always have the highest number of heals.

 

Not arguing dps, since DPS I do almost exclusively use keybinds. Because in that case I am better at dps doing it that way, in the case of healing, I am better a using both methods. It isn't a matter of being more comfortable with one or the other, it is a fact proven by our guild group logs that I am better the way I am doing it. I went back not because it was easy to clicky, clicky, I changed back because it was better for the group by some 400 hps.