[Ops Chat]"Guys, hey guys, I'm sure this guy uses hacks! How else could he have killed me like that He one shotted..no, check that, ZERO shotted me ***?!?! Surely he has activated them hax??! "

- said almost everybody at some point or another during their first 50 games or so.

 

..Answer is almost always some pretty mundane combination of pods,rails, BLCs,crits, death match damage buffs, multiple people shooting same target at once, etc.

 

My question to vets of thousands of games is as follows:

Have you ever (well, once you stopped being a noob yourself!) suspected that there'd be something more sinister? Have you ever felt like you've encountered some elaborate !HAX!11 that goes beyond the suspected lag shield abuse?

 

Myself, I've played like 2000 games total or so. Sometimes, people who lag most def port around in ways that leaves much to your imagination.

..Even so, not once do I recall thinking " heh, this game was totally solved by that lagging dude and his pesky lag shield!" Besides occasional lagging guy porting all over the place, I can't say I'd recall seeing anything too suspicious myself.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Salaviir

[Ops Chat]"Guys, hey guys, I'm sure this guy uses hacks! How else could he have killed me like that He one shotted..no, check that, ZERO shotted me ***?!?! Surely he has activated them hax??! "

- Asked most everybody at some point or another during their first 50 games or so.

 

..Answer is almost always some pretty mundane combination of pods,rails, BLCs, TDM buffs, multiple people shooting the noob at once, etc.

 

My question to vets of thousands of games is as follows:

Have you ever (well, once you stopped being a noob yourself!) suspected that there'd be something more sinister? Have you ever felt like there is some elaborate !HAX!11 that goes beyond the suspected lag shield abuse?

 

Myself, I've played like 2000 games total or so. Sometimes, people who lag most def port around in way that leaves much to your imagination.

..Even so, not once do I recall thinking " heh, this game was totally won by that lagging dude and his pesky lag shield!" Besides occasional guy moving to weird places cause of lag, I can't say I'd ever recall seeing anything too suspicious.

 

So you're asking the same thing as this thread?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=711315

 

Just look there, or post in there, we don't need another hacking thread.

We do need moderators though.

I never accuse anyone of 'hacking', though I have seen some unusual situations play out on rare occasions... Getting 1-shotted while I was at full shields and hull (max reinforced upgrade) in my Pike... Re-spawning at exactly 1/2 shield and 1/2 hull strength a few times... Experiencing serious lag only while trying to capture a satellite during a few lop-sided matches... Not being able to get a lock on a particular ship over the span of about 15 seconds (lock immunity was curiously long)...

 

I just chalk these up as odd phenomena, and suck it up... More often than not, a subsequent match plays out in victorious fashion and all previous oddities become a memory.

 

The only thing that gets to me are quitters ... That's another matter though...

Edited March 16, 2015 by AztecSoul

WHile the GSF client is certainly prone to hacking, only suspicious situations I have encountered is a player that suddenly stars to lag while under fire...

One situation comes to mind.

 

Was in a mastered burst scout with evasion. Three times I went at a player on Denon who was camped at A and not moving, and in a tier 2 strike.

 

Three times I popped my targeting telemetry and distortion field, could not hit him with anything aside from cluster missiles, and he would hit me with 100% accuracy.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Amorianallund

Trying to kite a scout around a sat with a scout. Getting hit reliably and killed by said scout, even though I was moving pretty fast and LOSing hard.

Trying to kite a scout around a sat with a scout. Getting hit reliably and killed by said scout, even though I was moving pretty fast and LOSing hard.

 

BLC's laugh at your LOSing.

 

And how do you know it was the Scout that killed you, and not someone off the node?

Suspected, yes. Player I'm thinking of is known to play from a high latency location. However, latency only seems to be an issue when being shot AT ... when shooting at someone ELSE the network seems very stable.

I would only report someone if I absolutely can't find any other explanation than hacking. And there are many reasons something seems like hacking, especially to new players. I once got accused for "flying through someone and shooting backwards" when I just turned around my scout quickly and used retros.

 

One game comes to my mind, where my scout got one-shot by slug rails for three times in a row by the same player. I was thinking of a crit-hack or something but at the end of the game the statistics looked normal, so it really were just 3 lucky shots.

BLC's laugh at your LOSing.

 

And how do you know it was the Scout that killed you, and not someone off the node?

 

Cause I knew who the scout was and saw the [scout] killed [me] text?

The only time I suspected anything was a few times where it looked like the opponent was jumping around when on defense, and moving smoothly on offense. It might have just been a coincidence, since that is just the type of thing a player would notice most easily. Someone who can write Ethernet device drivers on Windows, or maybe a few other places in the Windows network stack, might be able to deliberately do that, but the number of such people is very small. Any other hacks would probably depend on detailed knowledge of how the client communicates with the server during GSF matches, I do not know how hard it would be to decipher that.

Not being able to get a lock on a particular ship over the span of about 15 seconds (lock immunity was curiously long)...

 

(Assuming this was not simple latency/lag which seems to cause similar problems from time to time) This one issue might have a simple explanation if the target was flying a T1 scout and choose a specific loadout.

 

I've been toying with a build for one of my alt's Blackbolt that uses Powerdive, Distortion Field (Missile Break), and EMP Pulse (Missile Break). The result is a scout that theoretically with all cooldowns available (assuming I'm doing my math right) can only be locked by a player fired missile in the most precise of circumstances for over 18 seconds.

 

My quick Math assuming attacker is trying to lock a cluster missile (1.3 seconds lock on time) and the scout is able to use his cooldowns the instance the missile is fired:

Lock 1.3 seconds > PD (3 seconds immune) = 4.3 seconds into the engagement

Lock 1.3 seconds >DF (Breaks lock) > attacker reloads clusters 2.8 seconds (iirc) = 8.4 seconds into the engagement

Lock 1.3 seconds > EMP (3 Seconds immune) = 12.7 seconds into the engagement (PD now back off cooldown)

Lock 1.3 seconds > PD (3 seconds immune) = 17 seconds into engagement

Lock 1.3 seconds > attacker can release his missile at 18.3 seconds, scout has no more Cooldowns ready until 24 seconds into the engagement (at which time PD will come off of cooldown with DF following at 25.6)

 

reload 2.8 seconds + lock 1.3 seconds scout has another cluster inbound at 22.4 seconds into the engagement that it can't break for another 1.6 seconds meaning the attacker has a window to hit the scout twice before another (much shorter) 'unlockable' window:

 

reload 2.8 seconds + lock 1.3 seconds > PD (3 seconds immunity) = 29.5 seconds into engagement

Lock 1.3 seconds > DF (breaks lock) = 30.8 seconds into engagement

Reload 2.8 seconds + lock 1.3 seconds = attacker can launch a 3rd cluster at 34.9 seconds into engagement. Scout will have no breaks until 39.5 when PD comes off cooldown.

reload 2.8seconds + lock 1.3 seconds = attacker can release his tenth cluster(4th that might hit) at 39 seconds into the engagement meaning the missile has 0.5 seconds to land before the scout could PD and buy themselves another 4.3 seconds

even if the 10th cluster isn't able to connect in that 0.5 seconds and is broken, after this PD the scout is vulnerable to the next 2 clusters since it doesn't have anything up again until about 49.5 seconds when he'll get all 3 cooldowns back within a few seconds of eachother (PD @ 49.5 or 53.1; EMP @ 49.7; DF @ 50.8) and the process theoretically could start again.

 

so (if my math is right) in theory this build could be immune to an enemy's locked missiles for the first 18.2 seconds of an engagement, has a single window to hit the scout with 2 clusters in the first 34.8 seconds of the engagement and a total of 2-3 windows in which he can hit the scout with a total of up to 4 clusters through the first 43.7 seconds of engagement (and up to 6 cluster hits every 50 seconds~)

Of course, a T1 scout will almost certainly not live to see all of those cluster volleys, and even if it did, one pilot or the other is certain to have friends happen by or make a mistake in 40+ seconds of fighting/fleeing changing the dynamics of the engagement, so this scenario is only really theoretical and not likely to be seen in practice.

 

 

Also note that if the scout is popping cooldowns to break instant locking missiles ie. Seeker mines that would cut into his 'immune' time drastically but of course, by that same token, assuming the attacker is using a missile that isn't usually so easy to lock on a scout such as concs the relative 'missile immunity' increases.

 

-Not that most scouts will (nor should they) fly straight and steady while you lock missiles on them but this could still account for what you saw if I'm not making some (EDIT: Other *derp*) big mistake in my math/etc.

 

 

NOTE: thanks to bolo for pointing out my original post had a pretty major flaw in my numbers. Post has been edited to correct this mistake. Please let me know if you see further problems with this edited version -the last thing I want to do is confuse new pilots with half-baked theories of mine.

Edited March 18, 2015 by jmonka

Lock 1.3 seconds >DF (3 seconds immune) = 8.6 seconds into the engagement

DF breaks the lock but does not give 3 sec immunity.

Cause I knew who the scout was and saw the [scout] killed [me] text?

 

That doesn't exclude you being hit by someone else

(Assuming this was not simple latency/lag which seems to cause similar problems from time to time) This one issue might have a simple explanation if the target was flying a T1 scout and choose a specific loadout.

 

I've been toying with a build for one of my alt's Blackbolt that uses Powerdive, Distortion Field (Missile Break), and EMP Pulse (Missile Break). The result is a scout that theoretically with all cooldowns available (assuming I'm doing my math right) can NOT be locked by a player fired missile for over 17 seconds.

 

My quick Math assuming attacker is trying to lock a cluster missile (1.3 seconds lock on time) and the scout is able to use his cooldowns the instance the missile is fired:

Lock 1.3 seconds > PD (3 seconds immune) = 4.3 seconds into the engagement

Lock 1.3 seconds >DF (3 seconds immune) = 8.6 seconds into the engagement

Lock 1.3 seconds > EMP (3 Seconds immune) = 12.9 seconds into the engagement {PD is now back off cooldown)

Lock 1.3 seconds > PD (3 Seconds immune) = 17.2 seconds into engagement

Lock 1.3 seconds > has no more Cooldowns ready for 1.5 seconds after this lock can be fired (at which time DF will be back) and is finally vulnerable to being hit by a cluster missile (and by 24.3 seconds~ into the engagement the scout will be at the mercy of the attacker if he still somehow hasn't shaken them).

 

Of course if the scout is popping cooldowns to break instant locking missiles ala Seeker mines that would cut into his 'immune' time -although even then, that same scout could in theory pop back-to-back cooldowns for 9 seconds straight, be vulnerable for 1 second (not enough time for a cluster lock -only vulnerably to seekers for this 1 second) then pop PD when it's back off cooldown for another 3 seconds before it could really start being pounded by missiles 13.1 seconds into the engagement)

Of course, by that same token, assuming the attacker is using a missile that isn't usually so easy to lock on a scout such as concs the relative 'missile immunity' increases.

 

-Not that most scouts will (nor should they) fly straight and steady while you lock missiles on them but this could still account for what you saw if I'm not making some big mistake in my math/etc.

 

That's actually a very good explanation of how one could theoretically avoid a lock for a lengthened amount of time. In fact, the length of time I couldn't get a lock on that ship could have been a bit less, considering I was getting rather frustrated, thus making it seem unfathomably long. I figured some sort of CD rotation was going on, and myself wondered about a potential build that could counter missile use so effectively.

 

The problem is, I don't believe it was a scout. I'm fairly certain it was a Gunship, and it was moving relatively slowly, without using any maneuvers. I was armed with thermite torpedoes, and this was the only ship I could not initiate a lock on for such a stretch of time, while being in range, and within my firing arc (I have a +6 bonus to this number). This was during a domination match, where I was defending the central satellite from fighters coming in at long range.

 

All things considered, it may well have been a lag spike. Right-clicking on the target without hearing the lock initiate could simply mean the ship was not actually at the spot as I saw it. After that time lapse, including several fresh clicks of the right mouse button to no avail, I gave up and moved on to another target.

 

This particular event sticks out for me though, due to the relatively long time period, and with the ease of being able to lock on and fire at an alternate target soon after, ironically a scout, to be sure. We won the match, so lag or not, it wasn't a factor to the final outcome

It might be a Condor/Jurgoran since they also have access to PD and DF

DF breaks the lock but does not give 3 sec immunity.

 

Yep, there's my huge math mistake ... Heh this is why I shouldn't being doing 2 other things while reading/responding to the forums...

I'll go correct/remove the incorrect post. Thanks for catching that.

*sheepishly starts editing*

It might be a Condor/Jurgoran since they also have access to PD and DF

 

He did say it wasn't using any maneuvers, so probably no PD involved in this case.

That's actually a very good explanation of how one could theoretically avoid a lock for a lengthened amount of time. In fact, the length of time I couldn't get a lock on that ship could have been a bit less, considering I was getting rather frustrated, thus making it seem unfathomably long. I figured some sort of CD rotation was going on, and myself wondered about a potential build that could counter missile use so effectively.

 

The problem is, I don't believe it was a scout. I'm fairly certain it was a Gunship, and it was moving relatively slowly, without using any maneuvers. I was armed with thermite torpedoes, and this was the only ship I could not initiate a lock on for such a stretch of time, while being in range, and within my firing arc (I have a +6 bonus to this number). This was during a domination match, where I was defending the central satellite from fighters coming in at long range.

 

All things considered, it may well have been a lag spike. Right-clicking on the target without hearing the lock initiate could simply mean the ship was not actually at the spot as I saw it. After that time lapse, including several fresh clicks of the right mouse button to no avail, I gave up and moved on to another target.

 

This particular event sticks out for me though, due to the relatively long time period, and with the ease of being able to lock on and fire at an alternate target soon after, ironically a scout, to be sure. We won the match, so lag or not, it wasn't a factor to the final outcome

 

Bolo pointed out I made a rather obvious (and very silly) mistake in my original response (I've edited that post so it should *crosses fingers* be more accurate now) -Sorry for any confusion I caused. Also, even if my hypothesis were more accurate, the scout being able to avoid a ton of missile locks is largely dependent on power dive's quick cooldown and if he wasn't using maneuvers (and wasn't in a scout) that likely wasn't what you saw in the case you were talking about.

 

I do find it interesting that you were using thermites though since (from a purely anecdotal perspective) I've always had *considerably* more trouble locking a thermite even on centered targets compared to protorps (which should act the same way when locking/firing iirc). This could be explained by me just noticing it on one when the same issues happen on the other, or it could be explained that perhaps I fly my ships with thermite differently than my protorp builds and thus am adding in a variable I don't realize I am.

*If* it's not just my perception though, I suppose it's possible perhaps there's something screwy with thermite's locking mechanic and if that's true I'd imagine even modest latency issues could make such issues more noticeable. I do seem to remember reading something about thermite's having some bugs with locking on at one point, but I have no idea if that is still the case (or if it was even a major issue at the time).

Edited March 18, 2015 by jmonka