Mace defeated sidious fair and square

enough said

I'm one of few people who actually agree with this. Vaapad was the only light saber technique that could really put a smack down on Sidious. Sidious no doubt had superior sorcery then Mace (or anyone), which against pretty much anyone else meant certain death, but in a close quarters fight, which is what they had, the use of Vaapad was able to hold him at bay and prevent him from putting to use that advantage. If you go by the book it really does appear that he actually looses the fight where as in the movie it looks more like he throws it intentionally. I go by the book because, well, the book is better then the movie in literally every possible way.

Mace is really underrated even amongst his fans imo. I don't think people fully comprehend just how unique a Jedi he was. While all the others were very stubborn boyscouts locked in static dogma, he actually walked on the edge of the dark side. He believed the Jedi should of been doing more then they were, and he was the one who was most suspect of the tide turning against them, how, and most importantly why. It was him to lead the investigation to find the truth, and it was him who had nearly reached it, undoing the entire deception and drove Sidious to hasten his game plan for the climax of the clone wars at great risk.

I love Sidious, he's probably my favorite character in the entire franchise. But I like the idea that if anybody could stand a chance against him, it would be Mace. And no it has nothing to do with Samuel Jackson. I mostly go by book/comic Mace.

My point of view is endlessly debated against though. Most people prefer Sidious to just be completely invincible and infallible up until ROTJ. Yawn.

I'm one of few people who actually agree with this. Vaapad was the only light saber technique that could really put a smack down on Sidious. Sidious no doubt had superior sorcery then Mace (or anyone), which against pretty much anyone else meant certain death, but in a close quarters fight, which is what they had, the use of Vaapad was able to hold him at bay and prevent him from putting to use that advantage. If you go by the book it really does appear that he actually looses the fight where as in the movie it looks more like he throws it intentionally. I go by the book because, well, the book is better then the movie in literally every possible way.

Where in the movie fight, does it look like Sidious threw the fight?

Also a side note: Ian can really move lol.

If by fair and square, you mean getting a huge amp to even fight with Sidious...meaning using the darkside against him(Vapaad). Then yes Windu won fair and square, though he wasn't using just his own power.

Vaapad is not a dark side technique.

Vaapad is not a dark side technique.

I never said it was a darkside technique, what I am saying is that it absorbs the opponent's power and channels it through the other much like a circuit would.

Mace Windu has to be one of my favorite Jedi and I wish the movies hadn't left it to be questioned about who won that fight.

The movies really do make it seem like Sidious threw the fight to further cement Anakin's fall to the dark side, especially at the end when he feigns like he is weak and then unleashes a powerful barrage of lightening at Mace. IMO, the book contradicts what we see in the movies, however I am all for Mace Windu winning that fight with his mastery of Vapaad.

So yes, Mace Windu won the fight.

Mace Windu has to be one of my favorite Jedi and I wish the movies hadn't left it to be questioned about who won that fight.

 

The movies really do make it seem like Sidious threw the fight to further cement Anakin's fall to the dark side, especially at the end when he feigns like he is weak and then unleashes a powerful barrage of lightening at Mace. IMO, the book contradicts what we see in the movies, however I am all for Mace Windu winning that fight with his mastery of Vapaad.

 

So yes, Mace Windu won the fight.

He was like that in the book too, he feigned weakness and then blasted Mace with lighting.

Mace Windu has to be one of my favorite Jedi and I wish the movies hadn't left it to be questioned about who won that fight.

 

The movies really do make it seem like Sidious threw the fight to further cement Anakin's fall to the dark side, especially at the end when he feigns like he is weak and then unleashes a powerful barrage of lightening at Mace. IMO, the book contradicts what we see in the movies, however I am all for Mace Windu winning that fight with his mastery of Vapaad.

 

So yes, Mace Windu won the fight.

Brofist. Usually I'm alone in this opinion.

Brofist. Usually I'm alone in this opinion.

Windu is just a random jedi master ,part of the embarrassingly bad jedi clique of this timeline + Vapaad , and Sidious is Sidious.There is a good reason you are usually alone in this opinion.

Windu is just a random jedi master ,part of the embarrassingly bad jedi clique of this timeline + Vapaad , and Sidious is Sidious.There is a good reason you are usually alone in this opinion.

Very convincing argument there. I think I'm gonna switch sides.

I'm quite sick of this whole "Vapaad is the reason Mace stood a chance against Sidious" thing.

Vapaad is just a term for Mace's saber technique. He was basically the only Jedi in the order to grow a pair and realize that aggression is a vital part of combat. He accepted that and "drew on his inner darkness" to channel his aggression.

This is a fundamental aspect of effective fighting, the ability to control your aggression, essentially keeping it on tap and ramping it up when you need to fight aggressively while still being able to dial down and not expose yourself to counterattack.

Add to this that Mace was a masterful saberist, possibly the best in the Jedi Order in his day, and you have a man who not only knows the technical aspects of combat, but maintains a razor sharp mentality. It is his mindset and willingness to embrace his "dark side" that leads to him being so dangerous, especially when compared to Jedi who are unwilling or unable to fight aggressively. Also, he was played by Samuel L. Jackson...

Mace Windu has to be one of my favorite Jedi and I wish the movies hadn't left it to be questioned about who won that fight.

 

The movies really do make it seem like Sidious threw the fight to further cement Anakin's fall to the dark side, especially at the end when he feigns like he is weak and then unleashes a powerful barrage of lightening at Mace. IMO, the book contradicts what we see in the movies, however I am all for Mace Windu winning that fight with his mastery of Vapaad.

 

So yes, Mace Windu won the fight.

I haven't watched that movie in a long time, but from memory it seemed like Mace overpowered Sidious and was going to deliver a fatal blow until Anakin showed up and distracted him. Sidious was begging for his life and Anakin wanted Mace to spare him but he wouldn't. Sidious then launched a surprise force lightning attack which Mace successfully defended against with his lightsaber. As Mace was about to deliver the final blow, Anakin cut his arm off. Sidious used the opportunity to attack with force lightning again but Mace could no longer defend against it.

From how that scene played out, it didn't seem like Sidious was feigning anything.

I'm quite sick of this whole "Vapaad is the reason Mace stood a chance against Sidious" thing.

 

Vapaad is just a term for Mace's saber technique. He was basically the only Jedi in the order to grow a pair and realize that aggression is a vital part of combat. He accepted that and "drew on his inner darkness" to channel his aggression.

 

This is a fundamental aspect of effective fighting, the ability to control your aggression, essentially keeping it on tap and ramping it up when you need to fight aggressively while still being able to dial down and not expose yourself to counterattack.

 

Add to this that Mace was a masterful saberist, possibly the best in the Jedi Order in his day, and you have a man who not only knows the technical aspects of combat, but maintains a razor sharp mentality. It is his mindset and willingness to embrace his "dark side" that leads to him being so dangerous, especially when compared to Jedi who are unwilling or unable to fight aggressively. Also, he was played by Samuel L. Jackson...

Yeah. He was able to fight like a Sith, to flirt with the dark side, without succumbing to all the temptations it bombarded him with. That alone makes him one of the greatest Jedi to ever live. Most others shut their eyes so tight they made themselves ignorant of its nature. The few that didn't like Yoda we instead too stubborn to believe the Sith were capable of evolving. That ignorance and stubbornness is what led to their defeat. The only one that really saw it coming and was able to put up a fight was Windu. And it is my belief he would of won, just barely, if not for the chosen one's need to hit the galactic reset button, which to many people's disagreements I believe encompassed both sides. People always argue which side the prophecy was supposed to be for, but I believe it was both, to wipe out both the Rule of Two and the Jedi order who for very different reasons had both really ****ed up the balance of the Force, and Mace was just unfortunately perhaps the only Jedi to not really deserve it but was simply swept along with his peers cause thats how the universe works.

Yeah. He was able to fight like a Sith, to flirt with the dark side, without succumbing to all the temptations it bombarded him with. That alone makes him one of the greatest Jedi to ever live. Most others shut their eyes so tight they made themselves ignorant of its nature. The few that didn't like Yoda we instead too stubborn to believe the Sith were capable of evolving. That ignorance and stubbornness is what led to their defeat. The only one that really saw it coming and was able to put up a fight was Windu. And it is my belief he would of won, just barely, if not for the chosen one's need to hit the galactic reset button, which to many people's disagreements I believe encompassed both sides. People always argue which side the prophecy was supposed to be for, but I believe it was both, to wipe out both the Rule of Two and the Jedi order who for very different reasons had both really ****ed up the balance of the Force, and Mace was just unfortunately perhaps the only Jedi to not really deserve it but was simply swept along with his peers cause thats how the universe works.

Even without Anakin being there, Sidious could have ended the fight with his superior force prowess. I mean the guy went from

"I..I..I'm too weak!"

to

"POWER!! UNLIMITED POWER!!"

We've already mentioned how the movie makes him look to have thrown the fight much more then the book. He never does that "unlimited power" line in the book.

Really, it just comes down to how you chose to interpret it. I definitely agree that the movie implies he was toying with Mace, but the book less so (as in it gives space for either side to work) and I personally prefer to believe Mace was a match for him. I prefer characters are not too OP and actually have threats to them every now and then. I think Mace putting up a fight with Sidious and almost ruining his plans in the final hour makes Sidious a more interesting and respectable character, so I chose to believe thats how it went down rather then the more common belief that Sidious was just putting on a show and was never really threatened by anything. I think that makes him too godly and beyond any form of audience empathy.

Also Windu had several other abilities he used during the fight besides Vaapad, in combination he proved superior to Sideous.

Btw Windu is that cool, that the Hero of tyhon is based on him hopefully in the future we see Vappad and Shatterpoint added to Jedi Knight Class.

Btw Windu is that cool, that the Hero of tyhon is based on him hopefully in the future we see Vappad and Shatterpoint added to Jedi Knight Class.

He is? I never picked up on that at all. Always seemed to be pretty much a direct reflection of Luke to me. I mean Doc and T3 are basically Han and R2, and the JK's master serves an almost identical role as Obi-wan.

He is? I never picked up on that at all. Always seemed to be pretty much a direct reflection of Luke to me. I mean Doc and T3 are basically Han and R2, and the JK's master serves an almost identical role as Obi-wan.

He is thats what one of developers said in a walkrough video, I tried searching for it think it was Taral V developer walkrough but its exactly were the cut the video, trust me they said it.

I think hero of tython is based on windu because of the style of combat which is closer to what windu used in the movies, soresu form lightsaber combat or shi-sho.

I think mostly companions are nearly identical in roles to KOTOR more than luke, t7 is like t3, doc is like carth. and don't ever say again its based on obiwan, that chump ewan mcgregor spoiled the role old obi-wan did awesome.

I was talking about Alec's Obiwan. The JK's master, the one who becomes a force ghost and guides you... exactly what Obi-Wan did.

And come on, T7 = T3, and T3 = R2. They are both rip offs of R2. And Doc is not like Carth. Carth is a soldier-boy, not a scoundrel. He doesn't chase the ladies and the money.

And Mace uses Vaapad. Vapaad doesn't even exist in this game. And couldn't really properly depict it anyways. The movie certainly completely failed to. Vaapad is supposed to be so complex its like watching the Tasmanian Devil turn into a miniature tornado.

Bleh. This again?

Sidious CLEARLY threw the fight against Windu in order to coax Anakin to the dark side. I honestly don't know how any of you can draw any conclusion otherwise. The whole thing was a setup orchestrated by Sidious that was years in the making.

Do you really think that the most powerful Sith in history...who could foresee the future, manipulate an entire war, cloud the minds of the Jedi Council, who earlier dispatched two Jedi Masters in mere seconds, who later would get the best of even Yoda...would have much trouble with Mace Windu?

I was talking about Alec's Obiwan. The JK's master, the one who becomes a force ghost and guides you... exactly what Obi-Wan did.

 

And come on, T7 = T3, and T3 = R2. They are both rip offs of R2. And Doc is not like Carth. Carth is a soldier-boy, not a scoundrel. He doesn't chase the ladies and the money.

 

And Mace uses Vaapad. Vapaad doesn't even exist in this game. And couldn't really properly depict it anyways. The movie certainly completely failed to. Vaapad is supposed to be so complex its like watching the Tasmanian Devil turn into a miniature tornado.

lol this, well to be honest just a minor correction KOTOR Revan is based more on Vader so say the author Drew K. not on Luke either. you are right that the doc is more like Han Solo role

Now i really want to see Vapaad added to SWTOR:D

Now i really want to see Vapaad added to SWTOR:D

Impossible, Vaapad is invented by Mace Windu.

Impossible, Vaapad is invented by Mace Windu.

Easy, somehow the hero of tython finds a holocron and learns it, then is lost for 3000 years until Mace Wndu develops it again.